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Thread: Wang Lang the Big Reveal is Coming

  1. #1
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    Wang Lang the Big Reveal is Coming

    In 1989 I began my search into the history of Wang Lang and the Mantis style starting from the list of eighteen masters as presented in the Wah Lum handbook.
    Since then I have collected a lot of material in the hopes of finding out about the kung fu of Wang Lang. For a long time I thought that to find out about Wang Lang would be impossible. In Taiwan, my shifu Shi Zhengzhong even said that some of his mantis teachers had never even heard of Wang Lang.

    In China I presented to my shifu, Zhou Zhendong, some Ming era tentative research on the history of Wang Lang, to which he said that I needed more confirmation and should keep digging before I could go public, lest I be wrong and damage a reputation.

    In handwritten manuals and published books on mantis is the name "Wang Lang", but can he be connected to any written material outside of the Mantis style? That is the objective in the hopes of learning more about the style that we love.

    Wang Lang is an unusual name in its "common-ness." It is sort of like calling someone "Mr. Wang" and trying to find them and their ancestry, you can imagine the difficulties.
    I decided to search out all people in history named Wang Lang and see if any of them might be the mythical legend of Wang Lang. After much searching Wang Lang was found.

    Part of my methodology was to trace all references in Mantis material to non mantis material. To do this I used historical records and facsimiles of books and manuals dating from around 1000 C.E. to recent.
    Along the path of this search, the history and techniques of other famous and/or mysterious masters was discovered.

    Wake Up Call
    Recently I found that some details of one of them, "Han Tong of Muling Pass" and his exchange of hands with Zhao Kuangyin was published in a book for sale on Amazon.
    As an aside, if you are not familiar with these two people, most kung fu practiced now in Northern China, and to a lesser extant in Southern China can be traced to these two masters. Many styles have techniques that are descended from these masters to a greater or lesser degree.

    So, in the interest of honest presentation of the material and proper attribution of authorship I need to find a safe way to publish the findings and history of Wang Lang so that I can share it with other schools that share a common heritage with Wang Lang. I welcome others with their suggestions on how best to do this.

    The schools that can honestly and truthfully be related to Wang Lang based on this research, that I personally can verify through my own training are the following:

    • Wah Lum Tan Tui Praying Mantis
    • Secret Door Praying Mantis
    • Eight Step Praying Mantis
    • Long Fist Praying Mantis
    • Seven Star Praying Mantis of Hong Kong and Shandong
    • Taiji Praying Mantis of Hong Kong and Shandong
    • Plum Flower Praying Mantis
    • Hao Family Praying Mantis.


    There is no Six Harmony Mantis because my experience in that style is small and I dare not speak on, but leave that to experts of Six Harmony Praying Mantis.

  2. #2
    Greetings,

    Is the volume enough to be presented as an academic dissertation? a la Kang Ge Wu's dissertation on Bagua? If so, why not get the degree and the prestige to go with it?

    mickey

  3. #3
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    About Wang Lang it is just an article. Enough to be an academic dissertation? I never did learn about that aspect, so I don't know.
    A student of mine said that it needs to change the way that we look at history and culture, something that this article does, but about the academic hoops, I would need assistance as the translation work and teaching takes up all my time.

  4. #4
    Greetings,

    Well, if you are going forward with it, you may want to consider presenting it in a way that encourages dialogue. There may be more info out there that will support your findings. Are there any annual symposiums on Northern Mantis in the Republic of China or on Mainland China?

    Whatever you choose to do, PLEASE don't do it the way it was done in the Wing Chun forum by Hendrik. The guy was chopped up and luggaged in small suitcases. He is still rotating on the baggage carousel at the Denver International Airport.. with tags.


    mickey

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,

    Well, if you are going forward with it, you may want to consider presenting it in a way that encourages dialogue. There may be more info out there that will support your findings. Are there any annual symposiums on Northern Mantis in the Republic of China or on Mainland China?

    mickey
    Mickey, thanks for your advice. Dialogue and unifying the Mantis family is my hope. I think that there is still information out there that can support findings as well as theories. Hopefully in the future more info will help to corroborate.

    I hadn't thought of a symposium. Actually I had been thinking to have the book translated into Chinese and have it published in Asia also as I think that would help to promote Tang Lang in Asia.

    But, for now just working on the final details of the thesis.

  6. #6
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    I suppose this depends on the scope you wish this to reach. But since you seem to have been working on this for so long, I would think any extra difficulty in more cementing the validity of the findings would be a welcome hurdle for you. That being the case, it would be good to review the ways in which historians go about presenting their work and their methodology. There's mainstream historical academics that have been in work for the last century or so, but then there is a more modern approach that has been developing more recently which involves methods we often find in natural sciences, Bayesian stats and such. The idea is to weigh various hypotheses and utilizing internal data (your mantis related materials) with external data (all the other stuff) and work out probabilities for the different competing hypotheses in being most likely to explain the patterns in the materials.

    I'm not really a good person to ask about utilizing this type of thing in historical model comparison, better to ask someone in the field. But, if you want to hit a more sophisticated audience base as you seem, that would be my suggestion. Not the easiest of tasks I realize. But it would go a long way in solidifying the findings if they hold up to the math. If you decided that it were too much, you may find some reception of interest if you reached out a graduate researcher with whom to collaborate. Plenty of universities in FL, surely one of them must have someone looking into Chinese history. They could do that part of the work based off your materials and you could co-author the results in whatever way you publish for yourself. And of course, they'd also need to be able to publish the material for their thesis/dissertation. I guess that latter suggestion depends upon how willing you are to share the limelight.

    Summary: I'd look at the methodologies of academic historians in how they present their arguments and ultimately get it published. Even if you're only going for a shorter reveal than expected of academic publication, following established protocols, I'd think, could only help you.

  7. #7
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  8. #8
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    A part of the reveal

    I will share a few parts of the big reveal here.
    I was told that there is a website that I can get donations for projects, so I am wondering if this presentation would work and will share some of the fiction portion of writing here to see how it looks in a website.
    Then, maybe I will try and find that site I keep hearing about, I think it starts with a P and means Patron in greek.

    Judge Shi and his retinue spent the night at Six-Mile Inn. The next morning they were on their way to the government office of Daming. After traveling for ten uneventful miles Judge Shi encountered something that nearly cost his life. They were passing a temple as they entered Daming city limits when from above the roof of the temple's main hall came a sudden fierce wind that blew all the way to Judge Shi’s sedan chair. It was followed by another gust from the front gate of the temple.

    Watching the queer winds he thought, “On a clear day such as this, with a sky so still, how does such a wind blow from this temple? There must be a reason.”

    Translation Kevin Brazier

  9. #9
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    The gust of wind left Judge Shi so befuddled that he ordered his retinue to separate and enter Daming separately and pretend to be strangers to each other acting like traveling merchants on a trip to the capitol. One after another they entered the city and checked in at the Luck Ascending Inn. Judge Shi told the host of the inn that he had met Huang Tianba on the road and asked for a room together and the owner and attendants of the inn were completely taken in.

    That evening Judge Shi started his investigation in his room with a casual chat, "Inn Attendant, what is your surname and who are you, ya?"
    "This little one is surnamed Lu and was the third born, so they all call me Little Lu the Third. And, what is your venerated surname sir?"
    "I am surnamed Ren.”
    "Where is your venerable abode, ya?"
    "I travel from Beijing city."
    “Right."
    With the pleasantries out of the way Judge Shi got down to business. "Third Lu, let me ask you. Ten miles southeast of here there is a great big temple. What temple is that, ya?"
    “Guan Wang Temple. The number one monastery of Daming."
    ‘Do Daoists live there or Buddhists and how many are there?
    ‘Honored sir is asking about the monks of the temple?”
    “Some time ago a troublesome relative of mine left home to become a monk and I've heard it said that he stays at Guan Wang Temple in Daming. Since I was passing by, well, I thought to look him up. But, I don't know the name of the abbot there. Third Lu, do you know, ya?"

    "Abbot Measureless is his name sir. This Abbot is in high standing with the local squires and since he has that great belly of his and also recites sutras, the local squires often spend their time relaxing there. But this past June he almost suffered a lawsuit. Not by the locals, but a lawsuit from elsewhere to seize him as a thief of women. But thanks to the influence of the local squires on the judge nothing came of it."

    Judge Shi thought to himself, “So, this monk is no law abiding follower of Buddhism. He must be using his influence for protection. Let’s see if I can chase down some weak point in his explanation.” Judge Shi said, “Third Lu, have you ever seen Abbot Measureless?”
    “How have I never seen him? March of every year, the temple holds a Land and Water Rites ceremony and I go there to enjoy myself for half a day. The abbot himself mounts the platform and pays homage to the Immortal Buddha and chants out scriptures of repentance. When he is done he descends the platform and goes to the abbot’s quarters and converses with the squires or elaborates on some of the scripture or discusses the theory of poetry and literature. I’ve never heard a word of idle talk out of his mouth. So, even if the squires hadn’t helped with the lawsuit, even the judge knows all about him. That lawsuit was really unfair."

    Judge Shi thought, “Well, if Abbot Measureless isn’t engaged in illicit relations why did that strange wind arise? No wonder my retinue is not convinced. No matter, tomorrow I’ll go to the temple and see where my questions lead." Third Lu left and Judge Shi discreetly called Huang Tianba and Little West Guan to his room.

    "Your Excellency, no need to be overly suspicious." Said Tianba, "Since Third Lu has explained that the local squires have such coming's and goings with him, it just goes to show that nothing evil is going on."
    Judge Shi spoke, "Though the cadre doesn't think there is anything to it, But how is that there was a strange gust of wind? Even if the abbot is upright and honorable, there may be something else going on. Asking questions is not being meddlesome, but if we discover something strange going on and we right the wrongs of injustice then we won’t feel ashamed to eat the salary of our sovereign.”

    Realizing that Judge Shi had made up his mind Huang Tianba said, "Since Your Excellency wants to go, your officers will follow."
    "Don't bother. Since you anticipate nothing will come of it you can just stay in the city."
    Tianba and Little West could only give their assent but in their hearts they thought, "Just because this old man saw a gust of wind he wants to court danger again. If nothing strange had appeared we could have forgotten about it by now, but one little thing out of the ordinary and we have to waste our time frightening ourselves half to death. Why eat such bitterness? When did anyone ever see a strange gust of wind? It is just this old man inviting problems from the wind!”

    Seeing the doubt in their heart Judge Shi knew just what they were thinking, “Worthy brothers don't feel anxious, even if the cadre came along it is just to meet an unlikely danger, no need to exhaust you worthy brothers with this trip."
    Hearing this Tianba’s three souls burned and his seven apertures smoked, “Your Excellency! What are you saying? You mean to say that your guards won't accompany you out of fear of hardship? We have our doubts, but we also fear for your safety. If out of one in ten thousand something ill appears then your venerated self will once again have to eat bitterness. Though we act this way, but it is all for you, how can you say that your guards fear an inconvenience? I beseech Your Excellency to look clearly into the bronze mirror! Since Your Excellency has put it this way, tomorrow we won't go with you, Your Excellency should leave early and return soon, and avoid worrying your guards."

    "Well of course.” Answered the Judge.
    Tianba and Little West left the room and quietly told the story to Open Road He, Seventh Marquis Li and the others and they all said that once again the Judge was meddling in the affairs of others. They spoke of it for awhile and each went to their rooms to rest for the night.

    The next morning Judge Shi departed the inn alone and dressed as a scholar and by noon he’d come to Guan Wang Temple. Before the temple were three gates and a screen wall, above which were inscribed, ‘Namo Amituofo’ and above the gate was inlaid ‘Guan Wang Temple Built on Imperial Orders.’

    Inside the gate was a shrine for Weituo and cross from Weituo's Hall was a courtyard leading to steps to a great hall. Judge Shi walked up the stairs and read a large plaque inscribed with three golden characters ‘Guandi Temple.’
    Judge Shi thought to himself, “So, this is not the Buddhist hall, but Guandi's hall." He entered the great hall and faced Guandi's statue and performed the ceremony of ‘three kneels and nine kowtows.’ Finished paying his respects, he took one last look to the left and right and departed the hall. Gradually he made his way to the rear courtyard and another imposing hall with four vermilion characters ‘Daxiong Treasure Hall.’
    "So, this is the Buddhist hall." He thought. Inside were three great Buddhas, with the eighteen Luohan to their sides, all covered in gold and extremely resplendent.

    A young acolyte appeared and brought tea to Judge Shi. He took a sip, and passed the cup back to the acolyte and placed a copper in the tea tray. The young acolyte put the tea and money to the side while Judge Shi sat on the cushion.
    “What is benefactor's venerable surname and from where are you from?” Asked the acolyte.
    “Before you this one is surnamed Ren and has walked here from the city. Is the senior monk here?”
    “Presently the abbot is in his chamber with two gentlemen composing poetry. Does benefactor know the abbot?”
    Judge Shi casually replied, "We have met before" On saying that he got up and made his way out of the hall.

    Translation Kevin Brazier

  10. #10
    this is random qing dynasty detective scooby doo novel. wtf it got to do with wang lang

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  11. #11
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    this is random qing dynasty detective scooby doo novel. wtf it got to do with wang lang
    choke on a dik you b1tch ass h0m0
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

  12. #12
    "(Judge) Shi's Cases"

    The original 98 chapters were published in 1798. Later generations of people expanded upon the original. It was completed around the beginning of the 20th century. The last and newest chapters contain the character Wang Lang from Shandong. This character first appears in chapter 451 and remains until the final chapter 528.

    Detective style Chinese fictional novels often borrow ideas and characters from common Chinese folklore and history. The newest and final 20th century sections of "(Judge) Shi’s Case’s" show a good example of borrowing a popular character from common folklore.

    The writing above is a fantastic translation of chapters 434 and 435 of "(Judge) Shi's Cases".

    Researching all known references of 王朗 and 王郎 in history and in fiction is a worthy endeavor of anyone interested in researching Mantis Boxing.

    Great job on the translation.

  13. #13
    chinese mantis guys know exactly who wang lang is, what is the issue, what is this big mystery

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

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