Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: ID this mantis style?

  1. #1

    ID this mantis style?

    Could somebody tell me what this guy is practicing? It appears to be some form of mantis, but very reminiscent of xingyi. I really love it, so f***ing beautiful in its simplicity!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOAwtei5dw8

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    2,111
    Title says six harmony praying mantis fundamentals training.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Tainan Taiwan
    Posts
    1,864
    First move is usually called "one step three punches." He does it for about two minutes before moving to the next move with the kick and chop.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shell Beach, CA, USA
    Posts
    6,664
    Blog Entries
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tainan Mantis View Post
    First move is usually called "one step three punches." He does it for about two minutes before moving to the next move with the kick and chop.
    When you train "1 step 3 punches", will you

    - train in combat speed? Instead of use 1 second to throw each punch (as shown in the OP's clip), will you throw all 3 punches in 1 second?
    - punch from the "guard" (as shown in the following picture) instead of punch from the waist (as shown in the OP's clip)?
    - use higher combat stance instead of use the low CMA stance if your target is your opponent's head?
    - train your solo drill as you train fighting, or train your solo drill as you train form?

    Name:  1_step_3_punches.jpg
Views: 468
Size:  14.8 KB
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 04-27-2015 at 11:43 AM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Tainan Taiwan
    Posts
    1,864
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    When you train "1 step 3 punches", will you

    - train in combat speed? Instead of use 1 second to throw each punch (as shown in the OP's clip), will you throw all 3 punches in 1 second?
    - punch from the "guard" (as shown in the following picture) instead of punch from the waist (as shown in the OP's clip)?
    - use higher combat stance instead of use the low CMA stance if your target is your opponent's head?
    - train your solo drill as you train fighting, or train your solo drill as you train form?

    Name:  1_step_3_punches.jpg
Views: 468
Size:  14.8 KB
    I train one step three punches with 上提下滾-raising up rolling down. "Raising up" is raising the opponent's arm from underneath. "Rolling down" is rolling your arm down on your opponent's arm from above. Since the forearms of opponent's are connected training fast is not the key point. So I train the drill with a speed like the video. With an opponent, it is a relatively similar (maybe even slower) speed since the arms are connected.

    If the punches are "unobstructed" then yes, I train the hands faster "from the guard."

    In solo training I move mostly for structure, how I hold my body, and respiration.
    Train for fighting with a partner.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    2,111
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    When you train "1 step 3 punches", will you

    - train in combat speed? Instead of use 1 second to throw each punch (as shown in the OP's clip), will you throw all 3 punches in 1 second?
    - punch from the "guard" (as shown in the following picture) instead of punch from the waist (as shown in the OP's clip)?
    - use higher combat stance instead of use the low CMA stance if your target is your opponent's head?
    - train your solo drill as you train fighting, or train your solo drill as you train form?

    Name:  1_step_3_punches.jpg
Views: 468
Size:  14.8 KB
    For teaching, all of the above. Each method has a purpose.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Shanghai, China
    Posts
    245
    The title says Six Harmony Mantis Basics... but the movements look more like Meihua Mantis done a bit smoother than normal to me

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Shanghai, China
    Posts
    245
    Regardin John's question:

    I believe that it is better to start by learning a larger, more awkward movement, and make it smaller and more natural as you progress. Why did the masters of old pull their back hand back to their hip... I doubt they were stupid enough to think that was good for fighting.. well I think it was just a good way to get a beginner to feel the torque, to learn that when you punch one hand forward, you add to the power by pulling opposite shoulder back.

    Likewise practicing it in a large stance opens up the hips and develops a feeling of rooting.

    Once you are comfortable moving in this awkward way, when you stand very naturally and punch from a guard you will feel much more connected and have more power.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Canton, OH
    Posts
    1,848
    Definitely Six Harmony Mantis evidenced by the last two drills taken straight from the traditional forms.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shell Beach, CA, USA
    Posts
    6,664
    Blog Entries
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    Each method has a purpose.
    Quote Originally Posted by xiao yao View Post
    well I think it was just a good way to get a beginner to feel the torque, to learn that when you punch one hand forward, you add to the power by pulling opposite shoulder back.
    When I was 11, my brother in law taught me an open hand form "八卦拳(Bagua Quan)" (not from the Bagua system) and a pole form "劈手杆 (Pi Shou Gan)". One day I got into a fight. When I asked him after the fight and told him that I didn't know how to use the information from that form "八卦拳(Bagua Quan)", he stopped teaching me any more forms and asked me to train "1 step 3 punches" for the next 3 years. Since then "1 step 3 punches" is always part of my daily training.

    Assume you have trained "1 step 3 punches" all your life everyday. When you get old, which method will you prefer? A, or, B, or both A and B? I assume this should apply to all the other training as well. There is a slight gap between the TCMA training and the real combat. During the beginner stage, you may want to separate both training, one for body method, and one for combat. But do you still want to treat yourself as beginner when you are 80 years old?

    When you are 80 years old, if you throw "1 step 3 punches", will you punch from your waist, or will you punch from your head guard?
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 05-02-2015 at 11:23 AM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    . There is a slight gap between the TCMA training and the real combat. During the beginner stage, you may want to separate both training, one for body method, and one for combat. But do you still want to treat yourself as beginner when you are 80 years old?
    The biggest problem in TCMA. People never cross that bridge from beginner body mechanics to real combat.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Shanghai, China
    Posts
    245
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    When I was 11, my brother in law taught me an open hand form "八卦拳(Bagua Quan)" (not from the Bagua system) and a pole form "劈手杆 (Pi Shou Gan)". One day I got into a fight. When I asked him after the fight and told him that I didn't know how to use the information from that form "八卦拳(Bagua Quan)", he stopped teaching me any more forms and asked me to train "1 step 3 punches" for the next 3 years. Since then "1 step 3 punches" is always part of my daily training.

    Assume you have trained "1 step 3 punches" all your life everyday. When you get old, which method will you prefer? A, or, B, or both A and B? I assume this should apply to all the other training as well. There is a slight gap between the TCMA training and the real combat. During the beginner stage, you may want to separate both training, one for body method, and one for combat. But do you still want to treat yourself as beginner when you are 80 years old?

    When you are 80 years old, if you throw "1 step 3 punches", will you punch from your waist, or will you punch from your head guard?
    Personally I warm up with the larger "traditional" movements, and then later move onto the more natural "combat" movements. Plus I only do those larger movements as solo training, when training with a partner, even in simple drills, I use more natural movements and casual stances. That way you can get the benefit of training larger more awkward movements, without them becoming a habit when reacting to an attack.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Venezuela
    Posts
    45
    That is Zhang Daojin in his young age. Liuhe Tang Lang from Shan Xiang Ling branch (Lin Jiyou) i think.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    2,111
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    But do you still want to treat yourself as beginner when you are 80 years old?
    No matter how old, there always is something to develop.

    When we are young, we like to rely on our strength and toughness.

    When we get older, we can build on that by refining mechanics, relaxation, and range of motion.

    Do both.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    springfield mo usa
    Posts
    75
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    The biggest problem in TCMA. People never cross that bridge from beginner body mechanics to real combat.
    And that is one of the biggest problems with martial arts in general. I learned to fight for real before I ever stepped into a dojo or a kwoon. I adapted what I learned to my existing knowledge of real combat. It's like miming swimming movements for years without ever diving into a pool full of water and expecting to be able to move like a professional.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •