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Thread: Four Gates / SiMen Quan

  1. #1

    Four Gates / SiMen Quan

    Can somebody tell me more about this form? I've found it in the Southern Mantis and Southern Great Ancestor systems. There should also be a YongChun White Crane form by that name which I can't find.

    TaiZu Xiao Si Men

    Southern Praying Mantis Say Mun Sau

    Hakka Kuen 四門

    Fujian Luohan SiMen / SeiMun

    WingChun (Chan Wah Shun, Chan Yu Min lineage) SilLin SeiMun

    Hung Gar Sei Mun

    Pak Mei Sei Moon Baat Gwa Kuen

    Choy Lee Fut 四門拳

    Uechi Ryu Seisan

    Chotoku Kyan Seisan

    GoJu Ryu Seisan

    Shotokan Hangetsu
    Last edited by Cataphract; 05-13-2016 at 01:43 AM.

  2. #2
    In Yunnan exists a form 來恆拳 (slow steady step?) or 四門十三拳 (four gates 13 fist?) that I can't find. Interesting. That might explain where the Seisan comes from.

  3. #3
    Yue Jia Quan (Ying Men Quan) from Jiangxi is based on a Four Gates form. So maybe the Yue Jia is the source of the Four Gates. I had not luck finding a demonstration so far.

  4. #4
    Are you a Karateka or a White Crane practitioner?

  5. #5
    I'm a Karateka

  6. #6
    Oh okay. Can I ask what style as you seem to have an interest in things White Crane in nature?

  7. #7
    I'm learning Shotokan and I'm interested in all forms of boxing from southern China (and then some) that may be distant or close relatives of that art. White Crane may be central among them, but not as much as for others like Goju Ryu.
    Last edited by Cataphract; 06-07-2016 at 11:59 AM.

  8. #8
    Shotokan is a pretty far way from Southern Chinese Boxing, arts like Uechi-Ryu, some of the Shorin styles and Goju may be closer but more so to Tiger Boxing, Kgo Cho Kun etc than actual White Crane.

    How long have you been training Shotokan, ranked yet?

  9. #9
    I've been training Shotokan for five years now, but had other training before. Almost all our forms come from China like Hangetsu (Seisan). I hope that seeing all those variations will give me a different perspective and a better understanding of the ideas it was designed to convey. After learning how universal this Kata is, I appreciate it much more.

    Shorin Ryu and Shotokan share a common lineage until master Funakoshi's move to the Japanese mainland. You could compare Chotoku Kyan's Seisan to Hangetsu to see the (dis-)similarities.

  10. #10
    Nice! Here's another version from my lineage. It shares some characteristics with the first video in the list such as "Catch Tiger in Mountains."

    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    - Sun Tzu

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