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Thread: Chi Sao with sifu

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    Light touch practicing huen sao? Running around?

    No centerline there. It certainly is different from what we practice. I can hear GM Garrett Gee's voice echoing in my head "we live AND die on the centerline".

    But people do chi sau for all sorts of reasons. I'm not a real big fan of the flowey flowery stuff. It is more towards this kind of thing:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLSKs8bEdq4

    IMO without centerline structure there is no ability to intercept force. It is all "loi lau" and no "hoi sung", because the softness is crashed by the force beyond the boundaries of its own structure. I don't think it will hold up to sparring level forces.

    I do realize the Luk sao Ip Man platform has some more centerline structure.

    Anyway there's your wish - some discussion on KFO - lol.

    Just because it is soft and flowing it has structure..
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  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
    Just because it is soft and flowing it has structure..
    listen softly grasshopper to the sound of one hand clapping.

    everything has structure. here, however, we are focusing on the structure necessary to prevent someone from giving you a "Glasgow kiss" while you are playing swirly hands.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Agree! You want to "open your opponent's center". IMO, both Taiji push hand and WC sticky hand are used to fight for "dominate arms position". You want your arms to be

    - on top (so you will have weight advantage), and
    - inside (so you can separate your opponent's arms away from his body),

    of your opponent's arms. The "sensitive" is just the byproduct of the training. This way, you will have your "goal".
    interesting. this also describes a wrestlers frame.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    Funny thing is that when I got into Wing Chun I though our system was the only one with "sensitivity training" like Chi Sau.
    I've stopped viewing chi sau as a sensitivity training exercise. To me the point of chi sau is the point where 2 hands control 1 hand, or 1 hand controls the center of gravity.

    This is sensitivity training.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlDFdFWJc3M

    I don't think that will hold up to a couple 13 yr old's takedowns that I know.

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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    I've stopped viewing chi sau as a sensitivity training exercise. To me the point of chi sau is the point where 2 hands control 1 hand, or 1 hand controls the center of gravity.

    This is sensitivity training.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlDFdFWJc3M

    I don't think that will hold up to a couple 13 yr old's takedowns that I know.
    To me Chi Sau is training on how to deal with energy.
    In some cases you can control the opponents centerline without controlling their hands.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    To me Chi Sau is training on how to deal with energy.
    In some cases you can control the opponents centerline without controlling their hands.
    It's controlling everything , energy movement.
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    There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret..

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    Morning,

    Without wanting to disparage the clip, I tend to think of this more of an example of a push hands type of drill than traditional Chi Sau.
    Not saying that is bad, but certainly different than what I normally envision as Chi Sau.
    Do you have the more traditional drills as well?
    Actually it is trdtional chi sao , more traditional than rolling hands. I can see here big\small huen sao platforms , that kind of chi sao can be found in SCWC. Big huen sao platform can be found in alsmost all wck styles besides Yip Man's .

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuti car View Post
    Actually it is trdtional chi sao , more traditional than rolling hands. I can see here big\small huen sao platforms , that kind of chi sao can be found in SCWC. Big huen sao platform can be found in alsmost all wck styles besides Yip Man's .
    Traditional??? To who? The majority of those practicing Wing Chun today would probably not consider this as an example of "traditional" Chi Sau.
    Of course that does not mean the approach is not valid, I am just not sure I would tout it as a more traditional method as it is not as widely known.

    While there may be examples of Huen Sau within the movements, the fact is that this type of practice does not appear to train one to take the centerline. Rather it appears to leave the center open. Of course, there are reasons for doing do in training but to me it seems more like Push Hands. Both approaches have merit and I am not saying this is no good, only that is appears more akin to Push Hands than Chi Sau.

    As to SCWC I will leave that subject alone as I do not know much about it and prefer not to be drawn into controversy of whether it is even real or not. Having said that I fully accept there are many things which I do not know so SCWC could be a valid and wonderful art. Just that some who tried to promote it appeared to be less that reliable.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  11. #26
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    During training, you should try to move from the "wrist gate" into the "elbow gate" and then reach to the "shoulder/head gate". You should not just stay on the wrist gate. As long as your opponent's elbow joint is free, you are not truly controlling that arm.

    If you are aiming to reach to the "shoulder/head gate", you will have something to work for and that will be your "goal". IMO, it's better to have a "goal" in training. This way you will not just you parry my arm and I parry your arm back. You then repeat that from sun raise until sun set.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 12-06-2016 at 02:10 PM.
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  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    To me Chi Sau is training on how to deal with energy.
    In some cases you can control the opponents centerline without controlling their hands.
    I would agree. Over-emphasizing controlling the hands leads to chasing hands, which leads to losing centerline control. If your huen sao has more to do with sticking to your opponent than it does to do with recovering your centerline you see this.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    During training, you should try to move from the "wrist gate" into the "elbow gate" and then reach to the "shoulder/head gate". You should not just stay on the wrist gate. As long as your opponent's elbow joint is free, you are not truly controlling that arm.
    Yes. No influence of opponent's elbow position and hence no influence of opponent's centerline with primarily wrist on wrist contact. Down the arm starts to influence center more.

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