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Thread: Effective strategies against VT

  1. #46
    Maybe​ we will touch arms some day
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  2. #47
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    Probably not something a skilled opponent would do. Only an angry idiot would come charging in like a bull and run right past you when you step off line.

    ---As usual, you are greatly exaggerating for effect.




    As I said, a skilled VT practitioner will completely shutdown the other, making it perhaps seem as if the other person is not trying, but it is not for lack of trying that they end up looking that way!

    ---Not at all clear that this is what is happening since it is always shown against a fellow WSLVT student. They may be "cooperating" more than even THEY are aware.



    Probably doesn't care.

    --I would think he would care about the reputation of his lineage. I would think he would not be happy how it has been represented by a small group posting on the forums.


    He's not in it for the money or quantity of students. If someone is genuinely interested, they will make the effort to go check it out and probably end up being a more quality student than the critics who just stay at home or keep doing what they do.

    ---Someone that is "genuinely interested" is more likely to be impressed with clips showing good sparring/fighting that excessive amounts of Chi Sau.


    There are also a ton of parasites who like to copy things without knowing better and ruin the system. Better to only show things outsiders can guess about but will get wrong unless they actually come and train. The doors are always open.

    ---That makes no sense at all. Showing all that Chi Sau and drilling footage is more likely to allow people to figure out what you are doing than showing effective sparring/fighting footage against someone other than fellow WSLVT. We all know that there is plenty that doesn't show up in fight footage, whereas you are actually high-lighting things in Chi Sau and drilling footage. Fight footage would show that WSLVT people can actually fight and use their system. It isn't going to teach much at all from the system to anyone.



    You may disagree with this approach, but I'm sure no one cares. In a way, it's quality control.


    ---So "quality control" is allowing a bunch of yahoos to talk trash on the internet and insult everyone else while saying how wonderful the system is without having anything to really back it up???

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Probably not something a skilled opponent would do. Only an angry idiot would come charging in like a bull and run right past you when you step off line.

    ---As usual, you are greatly exaggerating for effect.
    Not exaggerating one bit.

    ---Not at all clear that this is what is happening since it is always shown against a fellow WSLVT student. They may be "cooperating" more than even THEY are aware.
    lol

    --I would think he would care about the reputation of his lineage. I would think he would not be happy how it has been represented by a small group posting on the forums.
    His lineage speaks for itself. I'm sure you are welcome to swing by.

    I don't represent PB's lineage. You just like to single him out for some reason.

    ---Someone that is "genuinely interested" is more likely to be impressed with clips showing good sparring/fighting that excessive amounts of Chi Sau.
    No one is out to impress anyone, and no one cares if you don't show up.

    Showing all that Chi Sau and drilling footage is more likely to allow people to figure out what you are doing than showing effective sparring/fighting footage against someone other than fellow WSLVT.
    lol, WTF? That's why you are still clueless.

    you are actually high-lighting things in Chi Sau and drilling footage.
    Things you completely misunderstand.

    Fight footage would show that WSLVT people can actually fight and use their system. It isn't going to teach much at all from the system to anyone.
    lol

    So, if you're doing homework on your opponent, you wouldn't analyze their actual fight clips, but only their training drills?

    Afraid they're gonna drill on you? That's why you are still clueless.

    ---So "quality control" is allowing a bunch of yahoos to talk trash on the internet and insult everyone else while saying how wonderful the system is without having anything to really back it up???
    Quality control is keeping a bunch of yahoos on the internet away from the system.

    If you want it to be backed up, though, just pop in.

  4. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Why is that? That just seems strange, and counterproductive. If you are doing good and effective things in sparring, why wouldn't you want people to know that and see that?? Doesn't PB realize he is putting you guys in a bad position? You go out all enthusiastic about your training, make big claims for how great it is, but can't show anything to back up all your big talk. That just makes his lineage look bad in the end. I guess he doesn't realize that???
    I belong to WSL house via Sifu Li Man Kit. Seems many of my tribe publish tons of vids.I simply don't publish vids from an old rule never to show your fight. If you show me your fight, I have the chance to figure you out...No matter how 'good,' you are I will figure you out....Then your pooched .....plus I'm a very good fighter. A very hard fighter
    Last edited by Happy Tiger; 04-19-2017 at 11:15 AM.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  5. #50
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    Not exaggerating one bit.

    ---Reallly? I said nothing about "charging in like a bull and run right past you." You did! And that is an exaggeration!



    lol

    ---Laugh all you want, but people drilling with friends and colleagues are just not as likely to fully commit to an exchange like someone form another style would. People drilling without gloves on aren't really trying to hit anyone. Subconsciously they can be holding back because they aren't going to try and hurt their friend....gloves or not. That is a real phenomenon. You can laugh it off all you want.





    I don't represent PB's lineage. You just like to single him out for some reason.

    ---I already told you the reason. Weren't you paying attention?? I bring up PB because his lineage is the only one that seems to meet your approval. Whenever you post a video to at least try and support what you say it is of PB or someone in his lineage. Every time a video of a WSLVT person is posted that isn't from PB's lineage and that contradicts what you have been saying you note that branch of WSLVT isn't on the "approved" list. Ergo....PB lineage must be what you are talking about.



    lol, WTF? That's why you are still clueless. Things you completely misunderstand.

    ---So you really believe that someone could watch all the Chi Sau and drills and see something repeated over and over and completely misunderstand it, yet they are going to figure out your system from watching free-sparring?? And you think I'm the one that is clueless??




    So, if you're doing homework on your opponent, you wouldn't analyze their actual fight clips, but only their training drills?


    ---That works for boxing. But you have done your best to distance your WSLVT from boxing. Are you changing your tune now???




    Quality control is keeping a bunch of yahoos on the internet away from the system.

    ---Then why are you posting at all???



    If you want it to be backed up, though, just pop in.

    ---This is an internet forum. It doesn't work that way in virtual reality from distant parts of the world. So if you are going to make claims, you need to find another way to back them up. In the virtual world, that typically means video. So if you can't back up your claims here, you shouldn't be making them as if they were such definitive facts. Discussion and conversation along the lines of "this is what we do" is fine. Trash talking others and saying how much better you are without being able to demonstrate it is not. That is what makes YOU a troll!

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Tiger View Post
    I belong to WSL house via Sifu Li Man Kit. Seems many of my tribe publish tons of vids.I simply don't publish vids from an old rule never to show your fight. If you show me your fight, I have the chance to figure you out...No matter how 'good,' you are I will figure you out....Then your pooched .....plus I'm a very good fighter. A very hard fighter
    That's just silly HT! You really think someone from one of the forums that sees one of your fight videos is going to try and find you so that they can beat you up in a fight?

    I haven't heard of Li Man Kit. Is he on LFJ's "approved list"? Have you been agreeing with everything LFJ and Guy have been writing? I'm betting that if you posted any of the "tons of video" from your tribe neither LFJ or Guy would be impressed!

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    I haven't heard of Li Man Kit.
    I hadn't either, but a quick search led to this

    http://www.vingtsunforum.com/off-top...fu-li-man-kit/

  8. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    That's just silly HT! You really think someone from one of the forums that sees one of your fight videos is going to try and find you so that they can beat you up in a fight?

    I haven't heard of Li Man Kit. Is he on LFJ's "approved list"? Have you been agreeing with everything LFJ and Guy have been writing? I'm betting that if you posted any of the "tons of video" from your tribe neither LFJ or Guy would be impressed!
    Well, show me your fight and I have the advantage. It's really just science.Bruce Lee spent a lot of his family money+1960 Seattle) watching other fighters figuring out their fightinmethodesdI. appreciate your respect. If you come to Van you can try my h and win or loose I'll buy Chinese Food I don't have an opinion on what is usually shared here because I am mearly a student. Perhaps a talented one ( my mom says so)
    E
    Last edited by Happy Tiger; 04-19-2017 at 08:09 PM.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  9. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    That's just silly HT! You really think someone from one of the forums that sees one of your fight videos is going to try and find you so that they can beat you up in a fight?

    I haven't heard of Li Man Kit. Is he on LFJ's "approved list"? Have you been agreeing with everything LFJ and Guy have been writing? I'm betting that if you posted any of the "tons of video" from your tribe neither LFJ or Guy would be impressed!
    Funny but that's already happened. Probably cause I got a big mouth.
    That's why I don't post videos. They are all the same... a bunch of masters cutting a bean smaller and smaller​.
    Last edited by Happy Tiger; 04-19-2017 at 11:51 PM.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    I said nothing about "charging in like a bull and run right past you." You did! And that is an exaggeration!
    You said; "If you have good footwork, when someone comes charging towards you it is relatively easy to step off of the line and flank them".

    That describes what a matador does to a charging bull. No one but a drunk or angry idiot fights like that.

    It is not even an "easy" task to cut someone off at acute angles, and you think you are going to achieve extreme flank on a skilled opponent using your good footwork?

    ---Laugh all you want, but people drilling with friends and colleagues are just not as likely to fully commit to an exchange like someone form another style would. People drilling without gloves on aren't really trying to hit anyone. Subconsciously they can be holding back because they aren't going to try and hurt their friend....gloves or not. That is a real phenomenon. You can laugh it off all you want.
    Hmm, maybe you're right. Doesn't look like he trains hard or faces real pressure at all. They should totally go harder...



    I bring up PB because his lineage is the only one that seems to meet your approval. Whenever you post a video to at least try and support what you say it is of PB or someone in his lineage.
    Not at all the only one, and you have been told this.

    He is simply the most prolific and his lineage has the most/best available videos.

    ---So you really believe that someone could watch all the Chi Sau and drills and see something repeated over and over and completely misunderstand it, yet they are going to figure out your system from watching free-sparring??
    You have seen such videos repeatedly and still completely misunderstand it, so yes, obviously.

    If you want to know how something is used in fighting, best to watch it used in fighting, not in abstract training drills without explanations. Again, obviously.

    So, if you're doing homework on your opponent, you wouldn't analyze their actual fight clips, but only their training drills?

    ---That works for boxing. But you have done your best to distance your WSLVT from boxing. Are you changing your tune now???
    Not at all. It is common sense.

    Quality control is keeping a bunch of yahoos on the internet away from the system.

    ---Then why are you posting at all???
    I enjoy thinking and talking about VT during downtime where I'm not physically training.

    I know most of you will never step out of your comfort zone, but some will.

    Discussion and conversation along the lines of "this is what we do" is fine. Trash talking others and saying how much better you are without being able to demonstrate it is not.
    I don't trash talk or claim superiority. I engage in technical discussion. Pointing out perceived flaws is interpreted as "trash talking" to you and you take it personally. You hate to have flaws pointed out, which is strange because most people would be appreciative. I was when I held previous views on VT.

  11. #56
    [QUOTE=wckf92;1302270]I hadn't either, but a quick search led to this

    http://www.vingtsunforum.com/off-top...fu-li-man-kit/[/
    Hey , Thank you. I forgot about that post Hoi Sum Fu. (Happy Tiger) no one​s called me that in a while. At least not in Chinese. Sifu Li Man Kit has been and always will be a positive and strong infuence on my fighting method .He is a great and quiet man that I respect very much. I am a lucky Tiger having worked for the baby sister of GM Leung Ting at Kuen Way Martial Arts. This gave me lots of opportunities to both train with and fight many very tough customers.... Not Always winning. )
    Last edited by Happy Tiger; 04-20-2017 at 01:32 AM.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  12. #57
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    You said; "If you have good footwork, when someone comes charging towards you it is relatively easy to step off of the line and flank them".

    That describes what a matador does to a charging bull. No one but a drunk or angry idiot fights like that.



    ---"charging towards you" is not the same thing as "run right past you." If they ran right past me, I wouldn't have to do anything...now would I? You can't even admit when you've made an glaringly obvious mis-statement.



    It is not even an "easy" task to cut someone off at acute angles, and you think you are going to achieve extreme flank on a skilled opponent using your good footwork?

    ---Sure. That's one of the things we train towards.



    Hmm, maybe you're right. Doesn't look like he trains hard or faces real pressure at all. They should totally go harder...




    --That picture proves nothing. We don't know how he ended up bloodied. No one in any video you've provided has ever come close to that kind of contact.




    Not at all the only one, and you have been told this.

    He is simply the most prolific and his lineage has the most/best available videos.


    ---And you've never provided a single other name for your "approved list."



    If you want to know how something is used in fighting, best to watch it used in fighting, not in abstract training drills without explanations. Again, obviously.

    ---If that's true, then I guess your system must not be as advanced and as sophisticated as you would like everyone to believe! Because free-fighting/sparring typically ends up showing only basic techniques. The people that are good at are the ones that are very good at those basic techniques. You haven't noticed that? It works for watching a boxer because boxing is relatively straight-forward and essentially a matter of getting very good at those basic techniques. Yet WSVLT has 3 empty hand forms and a dummy form that have no applications but that teach abstract concepts for fighting. That has to be a lot of material! And someone is going to be able to figure out all those abstract concepts from watching a clip of free-fighting/sparring???



    Not at all. It is common sense.


    ---Uh no. You've just equated WSLVT to Boxing in that it is simple enough to figure out just from watching a few sparring clips.


    I enjoy thinking and talking about VT during downtime where I'm not physically training.

    ---Yeah, I think you just enjoy arguing. You seek to turn nearly every discussion into an argument.



    I don't trash talk or claim superiority.


    ---There's that lie again!



    Pointing out perceived flaws is interpreted as "trash talking" to you and you take it personally.

    ---Pointing out perceived flaws and then refusing to recognize or acknowledge points people make that explain the "flaw" you think you see, and then resorting to name-calling and insulting comments is "trash talking" and "trolling."

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    ---"charging towards you" is not the same thing as "run right past you."
    If you simply step off line and end up at an extreme flank, they have effectively run right past you. Too bad that has never happened.

    It is not even an "easy" task to cut someone off at acute angles, and you think you are going to achieve extreme flank on a skilled opponent using your good footwork?

    ---Sure. That's one of the things we train towards.
    I know you train toward it, but...

    --That picture proves nothing. We don't know how he ended up bloodied.
    lol You're right. You can tell by the bloody knuckles that he must have punched himself.

    ---And you've never provided a single other name for your "approved list."
    I have every time, and you will still turn around and lie a couple weeks/months later.

    If you want to know how something is used in fighting, best to watch it used in fighting, not in abstract training drills without explanations. Again, obviously.

    ---If that's true, then I guess your system must not be as advanced and as sophisticated as you would like everyone to believe!
    Never claimed the fighting method to be "advanced" or "sophisticated". It's quite simple, really.

    Because free-fighting/sparring typically ends up showing only basic techniques. The people that are good at are the ones that are very good at those basic techniques. You haven't noticed that?
    Good VT is just good basics.

    WSVLT has 3 empty hand forms and a dummy form that have no applications but that teach abstract concepts for fighting. That has to be a lot of material! And someone is going to be able to figure out all those abstract concepts from watching a clip of free-fighting/sparring???
    You will not understand the training system without it explained to you, but the fighting method is much more simple than the development process.

    You've just equated WSLVT to Boxing in that it is simple enough to figure out just from watching a few sparring clips.
    It's the same with any effective martial art. Any fighting method that is overly complex is unlikely to work.

    ---Yeah, I think you just enjoy arguing. You seek to turn nearly every discussion into an argument.
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    ---Pointing out perceived flaws and then refusing to recognize or acknowledge points people make that explain the "flaw" you think you see,
    You take further offense when your failed explanations are not accepted and the flaw in your reasoning is pointed out.

  14. #59
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    Still arguing? Ok. Go on arguing with yourself.

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Hmm, maybe you're right. Doesn't look like he trains hard or faces real pressure at all. They should totally go harder...


    Is the bloodied up guy kurth and the other guy his sifu?

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