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Thread: Shaolin Monks and fighting ?

  1. #1

    Shaolin Monks and fighting ?

    I am looking for info as I know very little about Chinese Martial arts. What is the status of the actuall shaoling temple ? Is it a "real" thing now or a tourist thing ?

    Also what type of training do they actually do. I have seen all the silly parlor tricks and crap. I am talking about live training ie: fighting, kickboxing wrestling.

    Would there be actuall potential for these guys to become actual MMA fighters with some training and do you think there would be much interest in seeing them fight in MMA.

    This is an actual serious question

    Phil Dunlap
    www.thaing.net
    Last edited by PhilDunlap; 02-12-2007 at 08:11 AM. Reason: left something out

  2. #2
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    if you do some research on the website you can find plenty of articles written by gene ching the editor here. also if you search the shaolin forum you will find plenty of information.
    there are already threads like this over there.
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  3. #3
    I have read a lot of the stuff and my question is becuase something is being worked on and I am interested in if it is actually worth the time people are investing.

    I am very interested in the interest people have in this

    Phil Dunlap

  4. #4
    From everything I've seen and heard, the majority of the "Shaolin" stuff is a money making operation, are they doing martial arts? YES, but about the same way the average McDojo does, lots of forms, tell you you are a whirlwind of death because of form "A" and send you on your way. Some in the area are what I'd call "tough customers" but we've seen tough customers vs trained pro fighters in the past. I was talking to a Beijing located MMA promoter a few weekends ago, MMA is getting big in China, but guess who is at the forefront, BJJ GUYS... I know, shock

    Some of the pro league san da guys have done ok in the local MMA circuit there in Beijing. I haven't seen any shaolin monks in it yet
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  5. #5
    Dave

    I have allways though that the whole ting was a load of crap but

    What I would like to find out would people want to see a team of Shaolin monks hand picked by the head Abbott and approved by the chinese government fight in MMA in America.. The person I spoke to feels it is a no brainer. Win or lose. the oppurtunity to blow up the myth of the temple and actual monks could be huge. If they can fight great if they can't great TV.

  6. #6
    http://www.shaolinwugulun.org/. The genuine article. Check out the media.

  7. #7

    PhilDunlap

    You may want to read Antonio Graceffo's experiences at Shaolin. Here are the links.
    http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezin...hp?article=411
    http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/maga...hp?article=424
    I think you'd also get some help from our forum admin Gene. I suggest you PM him with your question.

  8. #8
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    Plenty of people can fight at Shaolin, plenty of people can't fight at Shaolin.

    If you need to find fighters and have the right contacts you surely can, both sanda based or more "traditional".

    There are even Shaolin Masters now residing in the west who can fight (proven plenty of time in and out of the ring in China and abroad): Shi Yan Zi, Shi Xing Hong, Shi Yan Lei, ... I'm sure there are more.

    Wall
    > it is your mind, that creates this world >

  9. #9
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    I deleted that thread.....

    I had a thread on here debating the fighting ability of Shaolin monks.

    Most monks do wushu for publicity/tourism. They also practice traditional styles. Some of them are good fighters, some of them suck.

    They'll never fight in MMA....so put that kiddie to bed right now. 1. They wouldn't make any weight class (most of 'em). 2. They have the convenient excuse that they're pacifists. 3. When you propose the fight, they'll just smile and ask: "Which weapon can I bring?"

    As for their training intensity---they're in tip-top shape, and most professional fighters, I'm sure, would find their regimen veeeery difficult (I.E. running up a mountain twice every morning, bear-crawling back down both times....and that's just the warmup ) They train almost all day long. But then, most Shaolin monks would find a professional fighter's training regimen rather difficult, because it's geard for a different thing....but their stamina would be off the charts. But the Shaolin aren't training to fight in a cage, or on the ground.....so they wouldn't be fully prepared. But as for chinese kung fu....they're some of the best around. Stop trying to put everyone into MMA rules fighting matches. How about an MMA guy conforming to Shaolin kung-fu SanDa rules? Hmmmm....no brainer. Monk would clean up.

    It wouldn't make good TV. Nobody would care.

    That's why I deleted that thread. It turns into bickering. Get rid of yours. It'll turn into mush in ten days, flat.
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  10. #10
    Yes the temple exists and some of the monks are really powerful... but MMA fighting is a different breed. Everybody has a chance to win or lose eventually. Put boxing gloves on a grappler and he will be defeated by a boxer. Same way, place rules and limitations into the methods of fighting employed by some traditionalists and they will fail also. Don't tell me we haven't seen any authentic Thai boxers lose to a middle class stand up because they took out knee's and elbows... does these mean thai boxing is no good? In the end all these comparisons and "what if's" can be drawn but the truth is MMA is a sport of violence. Shaolin monks and the like don't belong in the arena. But it certainly would make at least a few good pay-per views LOL

  11. #11
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    (Monk) Shi De Cheng gave me his card. On the back it reads:
    "Traditional Kungfu of ShaoLin: forms, Weapons forms, Chinna [joint locks], Chikung [breathing exercises], Taichichuan, Sanda [free sparring], Pugitism [pugilism], wrestling, free boxing and fighting technology of many kinds."

    The monks themselves don't appear to be interested in MMA competition. You can draw your own conclusions as to why. But there's Sanda at Shaolin. Do people look down on MT trainers in Thailand, too, if they don't also compete in MMA? How about boxing coaches? Wrestling coaches?

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    Yeah, when I see that guy training solo on the walls of his hermitage in the mountains, with the sheer cliff's face below him, and only his balance on that thin 1 ft. wall he's practicing on keeping him from doom.....I'm not thinking "there's a badass who wants to fight MMA!!".......I'm thinking....."Geeez!!!! What focus and skill!!!!!"

    (that's if we're talking about the same dude......can't find that **** vid link from youtube.....)
    No, no, no. You're not thinking. You're just being logical---Niels Bohr

    Oh yeah!??!! Well, my dad could beat up your dad!--Lineage-Haters

    For all nonsense there is an equal and opposite nonsense---Wook

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  13. #13
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    but the truth is MMA is a sport of violence. Shaolin monks and the like don't belong in the arena

    Reply]
    But they can fight in Sanda of all kinds back home in China...

    Yeah, when I see that guy training solo on the walls of his hermitage in the mountains, with the sheer cliff's face below him, and only his balance on that thin 1 ft. wall he's practicing on keeping him from doom.....I'm not thinking "there's a badass who wants to fight MMA!!".......I'm thinking....."Geeez!!!! What focus and skill!!!!!"

    Reply]
    I thinking WOW, what a crazy, thrill seeking, nut case!! Kind'a like Base Jumpers.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royal Dragon View Post
    I thinking WOW, what a crazy, thrill seeking, nut case!! Kind'a like Base Jumpers.
    HAHAHHA..........
    No, no, no. You're not thinking. You're just being logical---Niels Bohr

    Oh yeah!??!! Well, my dad could beat up your dad!--Lineage-Haters

    For all nonsense there is an equal and opposite nonsense---Wook

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    Winning and losing are illusions?

    Sometimes I read articles like this and all I can think is that the author needs a good kick to the head. This isn't what zen is about. So overthinking it.

    That MMA vs Taiji Fight Everyones Talking About meets Shaolin Monks and fighting ?

    The MMA fighter who beat up a tai-chi master didn’t win the fight

    Fight stylishly. (Reuters/Petr Josek)

    WRITTEN BY Ephrat Livni
    OBSESSION Life as Laboratory
    May 20, 2017

    The fighting monks of Shaolin Monastery in the Pagoda Forest on Song Mountain in China are globally adored. They’re real but have been made mythical in countless martial-arts movies and the Wu Tang Clan’s hip-hop.
    Now, their ancient arts are allegedly threatened by the new. The Shaolin fighting tradition, specifically tai-chi, just lost big time against mixed martial arts, or MMA, in a brisk showdown in China, a battle that was offensive to the government and others. The quick pummeling violated traditional codes of conduct, and the winner, Xu Xiaodong, has gone into hiding, so grave is the situation.


    This mind is the buddha. (el)
    The loss ostensibly also calls into question the relevance of the ancient art of the loser, Wei Lei, practitioner of the “thunder style” of tai chi.
    Any such claim may be shortsighted–with all due respect to the fast, loose, and furious MMA fighting style. After all, MMA is new. Shaolin’s Zen monks have been practicing for 1,500 years.
    Here’s a condensed look at the philosophy behind the fighting:

    Classic is as classic does

    Kung-fu flicks glorify battles and Shaolin monks are the only clerics in the world with street cred and pop-icon status. They’re unparalleled fighters, who perform amazing bodily feats, acrobatics that seem like magic.


    Legendary Zen master or myth? (el)

    Yet all this action is fueled by a practice obsessed with stillness, Zen Buddhism.
    The Shaolin tradition isn’t about throwing punches. It is a way of seeing the world and being in it, cultivating inner and outer strength.

    Pointing at the moon

    If you think winning is the whole game, you lose. In Zen terms—that would be like mistaking the finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself (giving yourself the finger, as it were).


    Centuries of simplicity. (el)

    This or that, good and bad, gain and loss, all are fine. Illumination is available to anyone in everyday life. It can come as soon as attachment and distinctions are shed, according to Zen tradition.
    Shedding can happen spontaneously or be cultivated with practice—or through both, by doing simple things, seeing clearly and operating beyond the limits of the visible world.
    That’s what the fighting monks of Shaolin work on from childhood, and what’s so admirable about them. Discipline. More than their fighting skills, it’s their will to excel through sustained effort, as ultimately evidenced by exceptional abilities.

    Granddaddy of all masters

    Boddhidharma is the Zen patriarch of the Shaolin monks, credited with creating kung fu, the martial art that spans a whole slew of fighting forms known as “wushu.” In his view, all experience is good practice, fertile ground for illumination.


    A collage of fact and fiction. (el/Internet Archive)

    According to legend, Boddhidharma brought his action-oriented, cryptic, rigorous Buddhism to China from India around 500 AD. He emphasized looking at nature for guidance—cranes, tigers, monkeys, bamboo, the moon and stars and weather. Boddhidharma’s Zen style didn’t take off for two centuries, according to scholars. But it remained fresh and lively.
    Rather than meditate on a cushion, he advised activity. Kung fu and tai chi are moving meditation practices, and Boddhidharma is revered by martial artists. He’s arguably the most famous monk ever, mythologized in international culture.
    Or he’s a fiction. Some scholars say Boddhidharma may not have existed at all.

    For all the tea in China

    More lore about the master: Boddhidharma is said also to have brought tea to China. He was so dedicated to Zen that he cut off his eyelids to stay awake during meditation and tea bushes grew where his eyelids fell, creating a national craze. So the story goes.


    If you think it’s about winning, you lose. (el)

    The tale may be a bit creepy but it’s also instructive. It lauds intensity, unyielding steadiness, determination in the face of boring but important things, like sitting. That’s what’s so sexy about Zen.
    The Shaolin allure comes from this quiet intensity, which distracted humans can’t help but admire. Who wouldn’t want to move so smoothly as to fly, win a fight moving the wind, having trained on waterfalls?
    The recent trouncing of tai chi doesn’t matter. As any Zen student knows, appearances are deceiving. The real skill of the master isn’t fighting or winning. That’s not what Boddhidharma taught. If he taught anything at all, it’s resilience, resolve, reserve.

    He wrote a practice guide that lays out two basic paths to mastery of the self. It’s called Outline of Practice, a short four-page primer for Zen students. It begins like this:



    The final blow

    The fight that has sparked such controversy in China doesn’t reflect the spirit of the ancient Shaolin temple and Boddhidharma, whether he was real or mythical. It isn’t Zen’s death knell by any stretch of the imagination. Zen’s about internal and external awareness, cultivating them until they’re one. That’s a classic skill, always useful, never goes out of style.


    It’s all in your mind not minding. (el)

    Masters practice to practice and fight if they have to. Winning is neither here nor there, and shouldn’t excite or dismay. That is what practice teaches, that admiration and admonition are equally problematic or awesome when we make them so. As a result of regular efforts, a student may sometimes win, and sometimes lose too. But a buddha manages anything.

    Winning and losing are illusions. The path is neutral. Mind makes things good or bad until we don’t mind. That’s the Zen treasure, a key to freedom that can’t be lost in a fight.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
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