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Thread: Yin Yang, The symbol of Death

  1. #1

    Yin Yang, The symbol of Death

    I, as a fighter, have always wondered why real fighting consistently falls outside the domain of traditional asian martial science. My first love. My theory developing is that traditional asian fighting is founded, ultimately, on the idea of balance and symmetry. This, expressed elegantly, by the symbol of Yum Yeung. Real fighting has little reguard for this and reveals that life is not like that at all. Yin Yang is a state of complete rest. In other words, death. Life SEAMS like balance...or the hope of it but there is a wonderful wrench thrown into the werks, forming all experience we know. V T, with it's obsession of
    balance and symmetry ignores this and fails in the arena of live combat. Life has been rigged. Knowing this will advance your fighting skill. Is this the hand of God?
    .
    Last edited by Happy Tiger; 06-07-2017 at 10:38 AM.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  2. #2

    Yin Yang, The symbol of Death

    I, as a fighter, have always wondered why real fighting consistently wins outside the domain of traditional asian martial science. My first love. A theory I'm developing is that traditional asian fighting is founded, ultimately, on the idea of balance and symmetry. This, expressed elegantly by the symbol of Yum Yeung. Fighting has little reguard for this and reveals that life is not like that at all. Yin Yang is a state of complete rest. In other words, death. Life SEEMS like balance...or the hope of it but there is a wonderful wrench thrown into the werks, forming all experience we know. V T, with it's obsession of
    balance and symmetry ignores this and fails in the arena of live combat. Life has been rigged. Knowing this will advance your fighting skill. Is this the hand of God?
    .
    Last edited by Happy Tiger; 06-07-2017 at 11:02 AM.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Tiger View Post
    Yin Yang is a state of complete rest.
    Huh. Interesting. I see it as just the opposite. Care to elaborate?

  4. #4
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    Hello,

    To say that Yin-Yang represents an absolute, whether rest=death or action=life misses the point, imho.

    Yin Yan represents duality and balance as in each side is a part of the other. IE: the white dot in the black side and the black dot in the white side.

    I think that if you really look at what Yin Yang represents it would be to not be rigid in either your beliefs or approach to fighting but to be flexible and open to modification and change.

    Of course that is my opinion and I am kind of a glass half full type of guy.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Tiger View Post
    I, as a fighter, have always wondered why real fighting consistently wins outside the domain of traditional asian martial science. My first love. A theory I'm developing is that traditional asian fighting is founded, ultimately, on the idea of balance and symmetry. This, expressed elegantly by the symbol of Yum Yeung. Fighting has little reguard for this and reveals that life is not like that at all. Yin Yang is a state of complete rest. In other words, death. Life SEEMS like balance...or the hope of it but there is a wonderful wrench thrown into the werks, forming all experience we know. V T, with it's obsession of
    balance and symmetry ignores this and fails in the arena of live combat. Life has been rigged. Knowing this will advance your fighting skill. Is this the hand of God?
    .
    'Asian martial science' covers a very broad spectrum of cultures and a wide variety of methods within each culture. Lumping them all together as the same thing is a mistake that Westerners often make. Fighting and killing, along with methods of doing so, are indigenous to each and every culture in the world, across all continents. They either worked or disappeared. It was ugly and dirty, as real fighting and killing always are. One need only study historical battlefield accounts from feudal Japan prior to the Edo period, before ritual and formality began to take precedence in samurai life, for but one example.

    To think that "those Asians" in the past who created, tested and survived with their fighting methods were ignorant of real fighting is mistaken. Before martial arts ever became a pastime, they were trained and used for actual fighting. Otherwise they were discarded. The typical man in the warrior class, or even revolutionary peasant, had no time to waste pondering philosophy and beauty of form in times of imminent danger and the need to deal with it. It was in more recent history, when martial arts became obsolete on the battlefield and viewed more as exercise/art/recreation or civilian self-defense that emphasis shifted, and style/form/ritual/philosophy began to take precedence over realistic function in many (not all) systems.

    As far as Yin/Yang, it is not a complete state of rest or death. Quite the opposite. Among other things, it represents that in each side can be found a piece of the other, and each side eventually becomes the other. Quite the opposite of absolutes.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 06-08-2017 at 09:05 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    It was in more recent history, when martial arts became obsolete on the battlefield and viewed more as exercise/art/recreation or civilian self-defense that emphasis shifted, and style/form/ritual/philosophy began to take precedence over realistic function in many (not all) systems.
    I wouldn't subscribe to that. The oldest surviving HEMA manuscript I.33 shows a monk training sword hottie Walpurgis. That one is from around 1300 and predates Ming. I don't think either of them intended to go into battle. The old Greeks had professional boxers and wrestlers. People in all times and places enjoyed training, just like we do. And there probably were as many theories about fighting. I read once some of the first samurai tried to achieve superhuman feats like surviving avalanches by meditation or something like that.
    Last edited by Cataphract; 06-08-2017 at 10:13 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    As far as Yin/Yang, it is not a complete state of rest or death. Quite the opposite. Among other things, it represents that in each side can be found a piece of the other, and each side eventually becomes the other. Quite the opposite of absolutes.
    Totally agree with you.

    It birthed from stillness (from nothing to something), giving rise to symmetrical qualities, movement and balanced coexistence. At least, that is how I see it. Not sure how the OP could even possibly see it at he stated...?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataphract View Post
    I wouldn't subscribe to that. The oldest surviving HEMA manuscript I.33 shows a monk training sword hottie Walpurgis. That one is from around 1300 and predates Ming. I don't think either of them intended to go into battle. The old Greeks had professional boxers and wrestlers. People in all times and places enjoyed training, just like we do. And there probably were as many theories about fighting. I read once some of the first samurai tried to achieve superhuman feats like surviving avalanches by meditation or something like that.
    Hello,

    That is a well made point. I totally agree with Jimbo's and other people's insight about Yin/Yang; from Wuji to Tai Chi. What got my attention from your post was the Walpurgis manuscript from around 1300. We need more symmetry! When examining the movements and the forms of various fists, not only does it fit into the indigenous Chinese concept of Yin/Yang theory, 5 elements theory, etc., these movements can even be described as very "Pythagorean" etc. Not to get too OT, IMO, it is from this perspective that TCMA are truly a gift to the world, to echo the sentiment of some of the master's. TCMA is like a "pure lotus sprung out of the fields of the sun". It is cultivated to a high standard and retained within the Chinese culture, now with inter-national students and adepts. We are lucky for the experience of training, not just anybody can transmit these teachings, it takes a working understanding not just of the application's but of the action-philosophy input.

  9. #9
    Very informative input. Of course I'm sure ya'll know I'm being cheeky here. The conventions noted
    are the cannon of yum yeung. Statutes I have followed my whole live long life. Any one who has read my posts will know it... There is something else...I don't know what. Playing in the game. Shall we dive into science? As anyone​ knows I have followed and still adhere to conventions of traditional thought.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Tiger View Post
    Yin Yang is a state of complete rest.
    The Taiji symbol is literally representing movement. They just didn't have GIFs back then.

    Taiji means the extreme limit, and the symbol is showing when one reaches its limit it must change into the other.

    It's just describing natural phenomena. Such as how day turns to night, and night turns to day.

    When the sun reaches its highest point in the sky, the upper limit, it starts to set and the sky gets darker.
    Then when the sky has become its darkest, it begins to transition into daylight once more.

    How do you possibly interpret this concept as "complete rest"?

    V T, with it's obsession of
    balance and symmetry ignores this and fails in the arena of live combat.
    If your VT fails in live combat, it would seem impractical to blame the concept of yin-yang.
    Better to look at what you're actually doing and discover exactly why it's failing.

    Besides your misuse of the concept, neither YM nor WSL appealed this in their VT teaching, anyway.

  11. #11
    You must know I am aware of the traditional knowledge of Kung Fu.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  12. #12
    This is what I love.express your self.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    The Taiji symbol is literally representing movement. They just didn't have GIFs back then.

    Taiji means the extreme limit, and the symbol is showing when one reaches its limit it must change into the other.

    It's just describing natural phenomena. Such as how day turns to night, and night turns to day.

    When the sun reaches its highest point in the sky, the upper limit, it starts to set and the sky gets darker.
    Then when the sky has become its darkest, it begins to transition into daylight once more.

    How do you possibly interpret this concept as "complete rest"?



    If your VT fails in live combat, it would seem impractical to blame the concept of yin-yang.
    Better to look at what you're actually doing and discover exactly why it's failing.

    Besides your misuse of the concept, neither YM nor WSL appealed this in their VT teaching, anyway.
    Then what is the blame.. For we are being Left Behind.
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Tiger View Post
    You must know I am aware of the traditional knowledge of Kung Fu.
    Aware of knowledge ≠ knowledgeable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Tiger View Post
    Then what is the blame.. For we are being Left Behind.
    Set the philosophy aside for a moment and record your sparring for personal review.

    For most WC, it's lack of mobility and/or arm-chasing.

    Whatever it is, there's a more practical explanation than "the symbol of death" causing your problems.

  15. #15
    I am working on it. Mean while, I continue to fight. You must know by now I am curious and respect your response much more than my opinion. There is something though, operating that is not yum yeung, something rules that doesn't obey this belief. or it's occult ansestor.Im being outlandish,yes to try and weed it out
    "Wing Chun is a bell that appears when rung.

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