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Thread: TWC GM William Cheung's Lineage - Ving Tsun Museum Claim

  1. #1
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    TWC GM William Cheung's Lineage - Ving Tsun Museum Claim

    I noticed on the Ving Tsun Museum Family Tree it seems to be implying that GM William Cheung learnt Hung Fa Yi from 'GM Hakka Keung's students in Hong Kong' in the 1970's period.

    Name:  mengs_family1-CROPPED.jpg
Views: 3597
Size:  82.2 KB

    see
    http://home.vtmuseum.org/mengs-family-tree/

    Can anybody corroborate this claim?

    I understood that he had already left for Australia by this time.

    Apart from this post
    http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...ht=HAKKA+KEUNG
    there is no other information about GM Hakka Keung, who was apparently a Hung Suen / Hung Fa Yi Grandmaster, one of only 4 disciples of GM Wang Ming

    If true, this link might explain why TWC and Hung Fa Yi have many similarities but would undermine the Leung Bik / Yip Man / William Cheung teaching claim.
    Last edited by Tong Chuang; 12-08-2017 at 08:54 AM. Reason: spelling

    Wing Chun is a Puzzle, enclosed in an Enigma, set within a Mystery!
    The Truth is Out There - Somewhere!

  2. #2
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    Maybe The VTM can confirm where they got this information from as it seems their "history findings" seems to change with the wind. Question is, is there an actual verifiable, confirmed source for the information? Or, did the VTM simply make up yet another "his-story"?

    IMO the answer would have to come from GM William Cheung himself. Or at the least, a higher ranking member from the TWC lineage.
    So unless GM WC has revised the LB->IM story he's given for the past 40+ years, the answer is pretty simple what's going on.
    Last edited by JPinAZ; 12-11-2017 at 09:51 AM.
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    Maybe The VTM can confirm where they got this information from......

    IMO the answer would have to come from GM William Cheung himself. Or at the least, a higher ranking member from the TWC lineage.
    ..........

    I emailed GM Cheung's Global HQ a couple of days ago but have had no response yet. I've just emailed the VT Museum but am not holding my breath for a response from either.

    I know Ip Chun admitted the Leung Bik connection to his Father after he had researched it later.

    Wing Chun is a Puzzle, enclosed in an Enigma, set within a Mystery!
    The Truth is Out There - Somewhere!

  4. #4
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    I was told by Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun people 12 or 14 years ago that Hakka Keung taught Hung Fa Yi san sik Wing Chun to students in Hong kong .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firehawk4 View Post
    I was told by Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun people 12 or 14 years ago that Hakka Keung taught Hung Fa Yi san sik Wing Chun to students in Hong kong .
    Thanks for the confirmation. It's suprising that this style has not been more widely known about - I guess it must have been a fairly well-guarded secret - probably just as well!

    Wing Chun is a Puzzle, enclosed in an Enigma, set within a Mystery!
    The Truth is Out There - Somewhere!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tong Chuang View Post
    I noticed on the Ving Tsun Museum Family Tree it seems to be implying that GM William Cheung learnt Hung Fa Yi from 'GM Hakka Keung's students in Hong Kong' in the 1970's period.

    Name:  mengs_family1-CROPPED.jpg
Views: 3597
Size:  82.2 KB

    see
    http://home.vtmuseum.org/mengs-family-tree/

    Can anybody corroborate this claim?

    I understood that he had already left for Australia by this time.

    Apart from this post
    http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...ht=HAKKA+KEUNG
    there is no other information about GM Hakka Keung, who was apparently a Hung Suen / Hung Fa Yi Grandmaster, one of only 4 disciples of GM Wang Ming

    If true, this link might explain why TWC and Hung Fa Yi have many similarities but would undermine the Leung Bik / Yip Man / William Cheung teaching claim.
    This is just another reason why GM William Cheung does not recognize that crazy boy Benny Ming, along with many other authority figures in the Wing Chun circles share similar strongly negative opinion. Crazy Benny telling blatant lies publicly about him! Cheung's organization and representative even made statement to address that photo opp Benny who tried to gain more public acceptance from L.A. event can read about here:

    *https://blackflagscoundrels.wordpres...ateral-damage/

    "This is Sifu Shannon Moore, Executive Director of the Global Traditional Wing Chun Association headed by GM William Cheung. For the record, we have no affiliation whatsoever with Benny Meng or his Black flag organization. We do not acknowledge nor condone nor support any of his activities or his organization. Any image of GM William Cheung or any other representative of the GTWCKFA or event that is used will be WITHOUT our consent. The image(s) described were purely happen stance photo opportunities NOT initiated by the GTWCKFA."


    Just one photo trigger such a strong response should tell you how illegitimate and toxic crazy Meng truly is. It's already been established for many years he is a fraud who is only in the business of using his personal interpretations to create more frauds under his business. Sifu Tony Massengill already confirmed this, and Sifu Samuel Kwok already identifies him as not legit in the community. From that link:

    "1. William Cheung shut the door in their faces and said NO THANK YOU.

    2. Sergio Iadarola denounced and exposed their lies and mode of operation to clear his own name and air the truth

    3. Tio Tek Kwie denounced them and exposed the truth behind their lies and was lambasted and routed out by Lin.

    4. Even Kenneth Lin banished Meng from the HKB for being too treacherous!

    5. Sifu Tony Massengil calls Benny a fraud for endorsing frauds."


    I add many other to that list including Ip Chun and Moy Yat, Victor Parlati too. many distance them selves from the disgrace that crazy Benny is to Wing Chun. His agenda is easy to see to tear down Ip Man legacy with lies.

    More from that link:

    "Could it be because he exposed his ambitious rat tail when he said “Let’s reclaim the TRUE bloodline of Wing Chun LOL” on an open forum just 2 years ago? That was rhetorical of course but for a reminder of his ambitious nature.."

    "For the sake of truth – Ip Man Wing Chun was indeed made up also…. and by whom? by Ip Man himself of course… Only a dumb-ass doesn’t know that… but even so who cares?* some people really are full of BS!!!” Alex Magnos"

    The so called curator has this type stance on Ip Man Wing Chun!? A curator cannot have such bias and disdain. A researcher cannot be spreading lies. He caught doing both!

    With all that he has done in the abusing the Wing Chun name especially with that fake Black Flag from Kenneth Lin and now self proclaiming himself as grand master of "Shaolin" Wing Chun, running a place that does not deserve the name Wing Chun Museum because it's only use is for him to peddle his fake fantasy version of real kung fu that was made up by him. Who gave him title? What Sifu of "Shaolin wing Chun" grant him position and authority? None. He created it himself and should let go of Wing Chun name and Shaolin name! He is no curator and certainly no researcher.

    By even daring to air and spread an obvious garbage LIE on his web site about GM Cheung, contradicting Cheung's own personal testimony. I mean, GM Cheung is still alive and well and has never changed his testimony. Crazy Boy is guilty to spread fake news and spread false teachings to people about actual Wing Chun because he is really giving them his mixed version rather than what truly representing of his teacher Moy Yat's Ving Tsun. You can bet GM Moy Yat did not grant him authority as GM of Shaolin Wing Chun. In fact many know he called that crazy boy a traitor.

    He is no different than that Sergio guy and no different than Kenneth Lin and no different than Robert Chu and no different than Andreas Hoffman and no different than Hendrick Santos, for they all only promote their own imagination and ego because they lack what takes to be a real student under a real teacher for as long as it's needed to become an actual accomplished kung fu man!* someone who earned all complete knowledge from their Sifu to the point the Sifu grant such rite of passage. These guys all failures and without loyalty without integrity and they all dislike each other too hahaha. No. They just want fame and fortune.

    Tell me, how can a place be called a Wing Chun Museum yet not teach real Wing Chun? He is not spokesman for all the lineages he's supposed to welcome in that place that he calls a museum? No. He is taking advantage of the Wing Chun name snd Shaolin name for money and name recognition only and without apology. If he were honorable he would drop those names and replace with his name only.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dante-s View Post

    "For the sake of truth – Ip Man Wing Chun was indeed made up also…. and by whom? by Ip Man himself of course… Only a dumb-ass doesn’t know that… but even so who cares?* some people really are full of BS!!!” Alex Magnos"...

    With all that he has done in the abusing the Wing Chun name especially with that fake Black Flag from Kenneth Lin and now self proclaiming himself as grand master of "Shaolin" Wing Chun, running a place that does not deserve the name Wing Chun Museum because it's only use is for him to peddle his fake fantasy version of real kung fu that was made up by him. Who gave him title? What Sifu of "Shaolin wing Chun" grant him position and authority? None. He created it himself and should let go of Wing Chun name and Shaolin name! He is no curator and certainly no researcher....

    By even daring to air and spread an obvious garbage LIE on his web site about GM Cheung, contradicting Cheung's own personal testimony. I mean, GM Cheung is still alive and well and has never changed his testimony....

    Tell me, how can a place be called a Wing Chun Museum yet not teach real Wing Chun? He is not spokesman for all the lineages he's supposed to welcome in that place that he calls a museum? No. He is taking advantage of the Wing Chun name snd Shaolin name for money and name recognition only and without apology. If he were honorable he would drop those names and replace with his name only.
    Pretty much sums it up then.
    I understand that now Alex Magnos and Benny Meng have also split.
    Last edited by Tong Chuang; 12-15-2017 at 11:48 AM. Reason: grammer

    Wing Chun is a Puzzle, enclosed in an Enigma, set within a Mystery!
    The Truth is Out There - Somewhere!

  8. #8
    Hi guys.

    Yeesh.

    JPinAZ and I are current students of GM Garrett Gee / Chu King Hung - who is depicted in the above family tree. I can't speak for him but I can say I have personally heard him say that regarding any connection in Hung Fa Yi history with GM William Cheung he has no knowledge of it, and that he personally believes what William Cheung has previously stated that he learned from Yip Man. And of course mutual respect expressed. The two families have some significant differences once you get past the initial impressions. But all wing chun. So no confirmation there from the lineage holder of the above depiction.

    At one point I thought I remember some of those rumors started by Meng's group themselves. I'm not sure if that is what firehawk4 is referring to.

    My reaction to the above "family tree" is that it seems more to depict ex-organizations of Meng in the upline.

    Best to dante-s, Sifu Redmond, GM Cheung and all in his organization - one of our sister families going back many years as all Yip Man wing chun is.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    ....

    JPinAZ and I are current students of GM Garrett Gee / Chu King Hung - who is depicted in the above family tree. I can't speak for him but I can say I have personally heard him say that regarding any connection in Hung Fa Yi history with GM William Cheung he has no knowledge of it, and that he personally believes what William Cheung has previously stated that he learned from Yip Man. And of course mutual respect expressed. The two families have some significant differences once you get past the initial impressions. But all wing chun. So no confirmation there from the lineage holder of the above depiction.......

    Best to dante-s, Sifu Redmond, GM Cheung and all in his organization - one of our sister families going back many years as all Yip Man wing chun is.
    Thanks for clearing any doubts I had over this - I'm going with the Leung Bik side of the lineage.
    I didn't get any response to my emails to the VT Museum or Cheung's Global - not that this didn't suprise me!

    Wow - you guys are very, very lucky to be students of GM Garrett Gee.

    It would be nice to see GM Cheung and Gm Gee meeting up publicly (assuming they haven't already) on friendly terms of course!

    Wing Chun is a Puzzle, enclosed in an Enigma, set within a Mystery!
    The Truth is Out There - Somewhere!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tong Chuang View Post
    Thanks for clearing any doubts I had over this - I'm going with the Leung Bik side of the lineage.
    I didn't get any response to my emails to the VT Museum or Cheung's Global - not that this didn't suprise me!
    I really feel bad for those who fall into VTM fantasy. Like this group in Kuwait. Past October I see from fb "Shaolin wing Chun " group from Kuwait sharing photo and video of Crazy Meng + 11 in his group so shameless demo their robot mma rolling hands at temple in China. You can find that group on FB and YouTube see not realistic just basic mechanics no energy training or just beginner practice? Lol

    Why go to China so high profile their things is a big joke. Remind me when R. Chu and H. Santo twist Wayne Yung teachings from SCWC only for their own agenda. Cause big headache rather than shining good for community.

    Crazy Meng call his opinion as "research" but is very irresponsible to say is research. Very much directly contradict GM Cheung testimony already answer these rumors before. That chart is not research but poor attempt at trying cause trouble by spread fake news like American media do. More proof they are not respectable and not credible.

    How long the Kuwait group stay under Crazy Meng until find out truth about him? Mangos left him like many others before. Sooner the better for their sake.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tong Chuang View Post
    Thanks for clearing any doubts I had over this - I'm going with the Leung Bik side of the lineage.
    I didn't get any response to my emails to the VT Museum or Cheung's Global - not that this didn't suprise me!

    Wow - you guys are very, very lucky to be students of GM Garrett Gee.

    It would be nice to see GM Cheung and Gm Gee meeting up publicly (assuming they haven't already) on friendly terms of course!
    i've also been having some doubts about that so i wanted to say thanks as well. by the way, i totally agree with you on the fact that it would be nice (even amazing) to see GM Cheung and Gm Gee meeting up publicly.

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