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Thread: Rejection & Acceptance

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  1. #1
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    Rejection & Acceptance

    Greetings
    Aroundd November 4th I was made aware of an Cadong sect ordaining ceremony for Yan Miaohai at Shaolin which involved the Abbot Shi Yong Xin naming Miaohai the 40th Dharma son of Caodong lineage.

    at the ceremony there were hundreds of, what the report called "real monks". now I have to pause here to get clarity, when some one says "real monk" I think of the precepts of a Bhikkhu (僧 / Sēng) which in Mahayana school of which the Cadong sect is a branch of, vows for a monk extend further than that of a disciple. Becoming a lay disciple you take refuge in the three jewels and take vows of 5 precepts.
    For an ordained monk, "going forth" into the monastic life the vows can be greater in number depending on the temple, some require 4 Encompassing vows, plus the 10 Bodhisattva vows made by Samantabhadra in the Avatamsaka sutra.

    Yan Miaohai was ordained at Zhengjue Temple in Shandong province in 2014..... At Shaolin, what is the general requirement and preparation?

    Theres an old documentary from either national geographic or discovery channel, where I recall the journalist saying people get rejected from being monks and warrior monks sometimes for years before they are accepted. Is this true? and if so, what is the reason? With warrior monks, I know it takes great skill and prowess to be accepted into the temple ranks based on martial arts alone.

    this is the only link I have to pictures https://www.facebook.com/shaolin.disciples/posts/2814635595448859?__cft__[0]=AZWDtrnjgKjuPAu-zhcP_Zy_BVeM0wdLYnSeRR8cwtLRYAWWraYpgfH-mMPZPyG6Eu_k-WudP5zDZjcLvhc6-uHAnuNKwMkSK_J1HqQ5DebovyFunYlsqdd1WqpRkP7qpxrHXsX 9u7HQOTPc2pghGdDj&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R I will try to find a news report of the ordaining ceremony, maybe some one is familiar with it. Anyhow I was interested in the actual process that led to it, and what all the monks had to do to get there. Many people in the west are warrior monk disciples with a Dharma name for their generation of study, yet few I meet are practicing Ch'an in essence, some hold disciple precepts, some just live a regular secular life and practice Shaolin wugong. Now to certain people, especially monks that go forth and take to wearing a robe, certain titles and vows have more meaning to them.

    Is this where the line is drawn? and why so many commit to discipleship rather than becoming a bhikku? there are a couple teachers I know of who actually went thru something grueling to become wuseng, yet they have never given detail, they are bhikku however, and they also teach wugong.

    Just wondering what the requirement is, for anyone who can help. Besides finding a master, because the master wont hold you to a certain standard if you arent trying to go forth to be a monk.

    Amituofo
    "色即是空 , 空即是色 " ~ Buddha via Avalokitesvara
    Shaolin Meditator

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKM View Post
    There are six levels of training in what you are talking about. They are:
    1. Outer Realm
    2. Common people religion - 4 precepts of clear mind.
    3. Hiniyana (Theravedic, Vipassinya)

    As to your question "why so many commit to discipleship rather than becoming a bhikku? " The answer is it takes a lifetime commitment.

    Hiniyana has 3 stages of precepts.
    4 precepts of clear mind + 49 additional precepts. This is still the lay level.
    500 precepts for the disciple level.
    500 more precepts for what you call the bhikku level.

    As you can read, all of the action steps begin at the lay level. Then you proceed to ~

    4. Mahayana (Lesser Vehicle)
    5. Vajrayana (Greater Vehicle)
    6. Ultimate Vehicle (Emptiness)

    Fighting monks are considered lay monks. There is not rejection other that the fighting master does not like the monk and will not teach him; or, if accepted there are gradients of how much the teacher is willing to share depending on his observation of the student. A fighting monk is usually not a temple monk. The pure fighting monk structure does not exist anymore and all the monks you talk about are now bookmen. That world is gone and please do not cite the wushu thing that they do in Henan.
    thanks for the reply.
    couple questions here,
    What do you mean by bookmen,????
    about warrior monks, I know there hasnt been fighting monks in the "historical" sense, since fuedal China, probably early Qing Dynasty, and for a pure group, maybe even earlier. With modern weapons and warfare there would be no need for that type of group.

    however, fighting art is still taught, aside from the "Wushu stuff" , there is still wugong and qigong.

    also, vajrayana is not translated as 'greater vehicle' ,
    mahayana is "greater vehicle"
    hinayana is the "lesser" , yet classical vehical, more commonly called Theraveda.
    vajrayana is called the 'secret' vehicle, yet vajra is literally translated as 'diamond thunderbolt' as in the weapon of indra. vajrayana is considered more of an esoteric expression of the teachings, dealing with tantra, mantra, and mudra, mandala and asceticism.

    Yana just translates loosely as 'vehicle'. in a sense of Buddha's teaching, the 8 fold path can be traveled with Dharmachakra as a steering wheel for any "road/vehicle", on any "vehicle/road".

    the main difference between hinayana and mahayana, is sutra study and acknowledgement.
    Mahayana sutras are not studied by hinayana schools, who only study the nikayas as Buddha's teachings. Mahayana schools teach from Nikayas , as well as Abhidharma, or Buddhas teachings elaborated and interpreted by masters within the sangha, like Hui Nengs platform sutra for example, or the yogacara bhumi sastra, and also Bodhisattva sutras like prajnaparamita sutras, diamond sutra, lotus sutra, lankavatara sutra, etc.....
    Hinayana schools wont acknowledge these sutras, nor Bodhisattvas of Mahayana traditions. The Theraveda schools as I said, focus soley on the Nikayas, and on becoming an Arhat. The Bodhisattva path is unique to Mahayana schools and some Vajrayana traditions.

    so in terms of becoming a Bhikku, I agree with you on the intricacies of devotion being more indepth and vast for monks, as opposed to a lay person, totally.
    Still, I'd like to know what the requirement is to become Bhikku at Shaolin.

    Amituofo
    Last edited by Djuan; 12-19-2020 at 01:33 PM.
    "色即是空 , 空即是色 " ~ Buddha via Avalokitesvara
    Shaolin Meditator

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKM View Post
    You asked a good question and I gave you an answer based on my experience, not books.
    understood. just clearing up some of the translation in case someone wants to look into the subjects. in essence I agree with what you said about commitment to monkhood.

    Amituofo
    "色即是空 , 空即是色 " ~ Buddha via Avalokitesvara
    Shaolin Meditator

  4. #4
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    "色即是空 , 空即是色 " ~ Buddha via Avalokitesvara
    Shaolin Meditator

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