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Thread: Taijijian (sword) Tassel--Tell Tale [paraphrase] Tassel EMJ

  1. #1
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    Taijijian (sword) Tassel--Tell Tale [paraphrase] Tassel EMJ

    Last Saturday stayed after distance learning of Taijijian (sword). Not memorized--relearning the form I thought to just practice the moves that readily came to me even not always knowing the name nor the description in Yang Taiji Sword transmissions. My long tasseled gift [Needing to get rid of it the cloudhead sword was given to me]. The tassel gets-in-the-way when transferring it or shifting it. I already had a concept that the tassel was a marker for skill or correct movement like tilt of sword or steadiness of movement. Practicing the wheeling moves I asked in my mind, thinking, how to get this out of the way, but wondering How to correctly move the sword. When I move sword [it should have been included but I was just thinking sword as a body I direct--how to instruct the sword]...correctly, the tassel will be out of the way, steady, smoothe.-Ernie Moore Jr.

    I tweaked pointing or direction of move--wrist, blade, grip on handle-hilt. Finally, I went faster and it straightened. Hard forced push-in-to the circling and the tassel was part of the movement.-EMJ My Comprehending the move to happen--Place the Mind. Regulate the Breath. Will the move.
    Be in the moment. The tassel might indicate when I have a good technique.. So I did again because to get it right by accident and not repeatable was not the thing. I got it again so I No_Know yet might have an improved idea...All moves in their own pace. In fighting, quick, but without losing root or flow and shift. But in form, correct practice of Taijijian (Taiji sword, T'ai Chi Jian, T'ai Chi sword) is some moves faster; Some moves slower.


    No_Know
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by No_Know View Post
    Last Saturday stayed after distance learning of Taijijian (sword). Not memorized--relearning the form I thought to just practice the moves that readily came to me even not always knowing the name nor the description in Yang Taiji Sword transmissions. My long tasseled gift [Needing to get rid of it the cloudhead sword was given to me]. The tassel gets-in-the-way when transferring it or shifting it. I already had a concept that the tassel was a marker for skill or correct movement like tilt of sword or steadiness of movement.
    Would not suggest using the tassel if you are relearning the form. Same goes for for the poem or the ancient music that syncs to that form. They are all advanced levels after you've got the form mastered...

  3. #3
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    Master The Form First, Use Aids Later?

    Thank you... one might think that the poem might help one master the form...

    No_Know
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by No_Know View Post
    Thank you... one might think that the poem might help one master the form...
    Yes, to master the form, but it can be distracting for newer students. Even using the unique names of each move can be make their minds wander. The same goes for even somewhat descriptive terms like "horse" because something like a square-horse can make some people think of absurd things like chess moves, so I prefer to use totally descriptive terms like "stance" instead of "horse". Then again if your mind is very disciplined like the Memory Palace of Matteo Ricci then please feel free to use any analogy you can find. Actually he was so good that he learned Chinese, memorized the Classics, and even passed the Imperial civil exams...

  5. #5
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    Totally Descriptive To Say Stance Instead of the Vague Horse? I No_Know

    YinOrYan,

    "Even using the unique names of each move can be make their minds wander. The same goes for even somewhat descriptive terms like "horse" because something like a square-horse can make some people think of absurd things like chess moves"

    Wander to where except to the imagery relating to the scene name? And can't it be part of mastery to explore the form so a wandering mind opens the student to learning. The instructor guides and steps to mastery are not lost steps to have full imagery at the beginning, but your example was not full, So, so Sorr.

    horse might bring an image of chess moves until one just stands there with spread knees and feet two shoulder's width apart. And the chess move is patently "L" shaped in how it is generally thought-of so no one should think of a move by standing in place nor think of the rectangular knight piece move in an "L" pattern when someone in a Kung-Fu or Taiji stance-scenario or forms class says square horse....Just shouldn't regularly happen-Ernie Moore Jr

    When someone is saying Horse hopefully it is in a Kung-Fu or Taiji class, and not on a bus or Times Square. In the context of location and timing even if someone does not understand horse means Horse stance as riding a horse one might normally ride. A few mentions should sort-out any confusion as you brought-up so, that if they keep attending, saying horse when about to transition to a standing move-one might get that this relates strongly to acquiring a stance of Horse-riding. By-the-way, The stabilizing thing a carpenter might use or in construction seems to be called a work horse and I am not experienced in exposure enough to think people regularly refer to a work Horse as "Horse" as these people are labor and often newer and so more fuller terms are used initially.-Ernie Moore Jr.

    Saying stance is not necessarily as you say, totally descriptive. By itself Stance only means one...hundred things...(O. K. 01) Entering stance, 02) Reverse stance, 03) Right stance, 04) Center stance, 05) Left stance, 06) Cross stance, 07) Cross-Step((p)ing) stance, 08)seven-star stance, 09) Cat stance, 10) Horse stance, 11) Horse-riding stance, 12) Riding-Horse stance, 13) Front-Knee-Bent stance, 14) Ape stance 15) Dragon-Walking stance, 16) 60-40 stance, 17) 40-60 stance, 18) 50-50 stance, 19) Crane stance, 20) Twisting stance, 21) Bow and Arrow stance, 22) Dragon stance, 23) Scissors stance...) ...so yes use stance coupled with a description. And do not use just one word of a descriptive phrase and Not include the term stance. But I started this thinking you were saying say stance and they do the right one instinctively with nothing else because you didn't like saying horse to say horse riding stance...where as in square-horse-square augments horse, horse determines the general posture. But these are instructions within a technique which can be Hit-or-Miss. But Brush Knee and push really takes you there if you do not struggle. White Crane might be much if people don't see cranes. Either get that it is a bird or change the name to a more familiar, such as Bird Spreads Its Wings then they follow you, but they want to flap because the birds they see just have small wings and flap so your move seems off, show them a picture, tell them a scene of a long winged bird and the move resembles that scene of a White Crane Spreading its Wings. Should be fine.-Ernie Moore Jr.

    You do not have to say Square horse. One could use more words with not too much sweat and fill-that-out with the original--Squared-off Horse-riding Stance. But if they did not learn the original terms; then only knowing a short-cut name that misses being descriptive for the uninitiated and maybe shortening of a short. It seems that could be unhelpful in a starting. But it was for me and I am not there. And anyone familiar with the scenery who is told the move resembles the moves of the image or scene can come closer to getting the move more right, more quickly, more often.-Ernie Moore Jr.

    If mentions were because I was taking a class or relearning or forgot the form and the thought of me as New to this all...O.K. Thank you for your considerations and situationally widely accepted practical advice.-Ernie Moore Jr.

    No_Know
    Last edited by No_Know; 06-02-2021 at 06:14 PM. Reason: paragraph3;line2;word26-replaced word rook with word knight
    There are four lights... impulse...all donations can be sent at PayPal.com to qumpreyndweth@juno.com; vurecords.com

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by No_Know View Post
    Wander to where except to the imagery relating to the scene name?
    Different people learn different ways. Language is a double-edged sword that can be used for or against you. Over there in Virginia people most likely are dealing with a re-mapping of two languages, English and Chinese, but here just about every student has English as their second language, hence the confusion with poetic terminology, but yeah I know twisting-stance does not sound as good as twist-horse! Funny thing is that the big Yang lineage around here has had really bad twist-horses for multiple generations and now they have been creating an army of tai chi instructors with really twisted twist-horses, haha

  7. #7
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    Sword Fingers Holds The Tassel EMJ

    This movie has a scene where I realize that the sword fingers hand moves perhaps to hold the long tassel these swords once or some had. It starts here: 1:06:11 We see he moves the sword and a shot from above shows the tassel not in the way. Then there's what I realized about form or competition sword the sword fingers hand might be close because it is holding the tassel...keeping it out of the way of the sword moving and perhaps tossing-out or wielding the tassel for some effect.-Ernie Moore Jr.
    Last edited by No_Know; 06-28-2021 at 05:33 PM. Reason: switched "it starts here:" for the time mark where it starts the section to which I refer. EMJ
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by No_Know View Post
    This movie has a scene where I realize that the sword fingers hand moves perhaps to hold the long tassel these swords once or some had. It starts here: 1:06:11 We see he moves the sword and a shot from above shows the tassel not in the way. Then there's what I realized about form or competition sword the sword fingers hand might be close because it is holding the tassel...keeping it out of the way of the sword moving and perhaps tossing-out or wielding the tassel for some effect.-Ernie Moore Jr.
    That makes sense. It seems the tassel gets in the way of applications. That's probably why I don't like using the tassel in my forms. Fight scenes that include the tassel while fighting (like that one) tend be very choreographed. Perhaps the tassels were just an outgrowth of form practice or sword dances...

  9. #9
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    Sword tassels exist cross culturally

    It is common for swords to have lanyards in the form of tassels. You see it in many European swords, particularly the military swords and sabers. It's called a 'sword knot.'
    Gene Ching
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    It is common for swords to have lanyards in the form of tassels. You see it in many European swords, particularly the military swords and sabers. It's called a 'sword knot.'
    I woke up last night thinking of that! Looked at all my sword books but could not find anything about them. Now I'm wondering if they may have had some function, like to tie the sword to the wrist, perhaps for fighting on boats or horseback...

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