The deadliest move in all of martial arts

[MasterKiller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d67PthBtKoI

[Dragonzbane76]

yep never been used in mma.....:cool:

http://theneave.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/jardine-griffin1471.jpg

[TenTigers]

I find it peculiar that he refers to it as a chin jab, when it is clearly not a jab at all, by any definition.

[taai gihk yahn]

at first I thought the "deadliest weapon" was that you stand in front of a bookshelf to lend you gravitas, and bore your opponent to tears by talking forever about nothing, and then run him over with a semi when he can't see (ok, well I extrapolated the last part, but anyway);

second, as Rik also pointed out, what the actual move demonstrated has to do with a jab is beyond me;

third, Casey Kasem called, he wants his voice back;

[David Jamieson]

Hmmmn, I"m going down to drill my close combat chin jab!.
Then I'm going to learn how to use it to refine uranium and then I'm gonna get sanctions placed on me by the UN for having possession of the close combat chin jab...that isn't really a jab so much as it is a pilots license.

yeah!

[mickey]

Greetings,

This technique is not new, nor it is it well demonstrated. The technique works best when the opponent is slammed into it; i.e., when his momentum is approaching you. I find the crashing of the head into the ground a little strange, here. The first part of this technique (the strike) exists in Lohan Shaolin traditions, Shuai Chiao, Bagua, Sumo, and others. And yes, it can be an effective strike. But only a complete fool puts all his eggs into one basket.

Here is the technique wonderfully used in Sumo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHAWtwOmClA

mickey

[Drake]

"Put your hand on my shoulder!"

"No, the other shoulder!"

"Use your other hand!"

[Lokhopkuen]

Always the guys making tapes doing it not right:rolleyes:

When come up with something new to martial art make tape, until then STFU:D

[Scott R. Brown]

That technique is so deadly I would recommend people avoid even watching the video. You might never recover from the hysterics!!

It is a very old technique in Japanese MA as well. BTW!

I am glad we used it to defeat those nasty NAZI"s too. We might have lost the war without it!


P.S.

...Casey Kasem called, he wants his voice back; :p

[sholo86]

I thought the two-finger eye poke was the deadliest :D

.....okay, I'll just shut up now.

[SanHeChuan]

It's in wing chun too off a split entry.

[Mr Punch]

You couldn't make it up.

.
.
.


Oh.

[pazman]

The dude in OPs video managed to saturate his explanation with hype, misinformation, lies, and bullsh%t. The technique is valid, but it is not "deadly". We practiced this in aikido, full force, no problem. The guy in the video should not be teaching.

Here are some other examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Uy59WK0bU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQygNC-akpQ

[YouKnowWho]

This move in CMA is called "摘盔(Zhai Kui) - helmet remove". You put your right hand on top of your opponent's forehead (above the eyebrow). You put your left hand behind his head (above the neck). You use your left hand as the leverage, use your right hand to bend his head backward, and then smash the back of his head onto the ground (like a sacrifice throw). It's one move that you can take down a big opponent of any size. The reason is simple, you use all your body weigh to fight against only your opponent's neck. It was used as assassin technique in the ancient time because the back of the human head is very weak. The best way to apply this move is you walk passing by your opponent's right side. You then apply this move by surprise. In combat, it will require some "set up".

In his clip, he was using the "face push" and "chin push". The rotation axis is a bit shorter than by using the "fore head push". Also his left hand is behind his opponent's waist. This make the rotation axis longer but he has to fight against his opponent's upper body instead of just the neck. IMO, it won't work as well as the "摘盔(Zhai Kui) - helmet remove".

Is this the "deadliest move in all of martial arts"? Next time when you fall back and the back of your head hit on a solid rock, you should be able to draw that conclusion all by yourself.

[Scott R. Brown]

I think getting stabbed in the heart is more deadly!

[Lucas]

H-Bomb to the face: Real Ultimate Power!!

[SanHeChuan]

Whoa whoa whoa no need to throw around the F-bomb.

[Lucas]

Can you handle the truth? (http://www.realultimatepower.net/)

[David Jamieson]

Can you handle the truth? (http://www.realultimatepower.net/)

Can You? Can ya? Huh? Hmmmn? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNxHqwazs)

[Lucas]

Thats a lot of truth to handle man! Do you teach seminars on passive aggresiveness? :p

[David Jamieson]

Thats a lot of truth to handle man! Do you teach seminars on passive aggresiveness? :p

Only if there is powerthirst involved.

SPORTS!!! RAAAHHHHGGG!

[Lucas]

Real ultimate power thirst!

[David Jamieson]

Made with lightning.

[jmd161]

The dude in OPs video managed to saturate his explanation with hype, misinformation, lies, and bullsh%t. The technique is valid, but it is not "deadly". We practiced this in aikido, full force, no problem. The guy in the video should not be teaching.

Here are some other examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Uy59WK0bU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQygNC-akpQ






This move in CMA is called "摘盔(Zhai Kui) - helmet remove". You put your right hand on top of your opponent's forehead (above the eyebrow). You put your left hand behind his head (above the neck). You use your left hand as the leverage, use your right hand to bend his head backward, and then smash the back of his head onto the ground (like a sacrifice throw). It's one move that you can take down a big opponent of any size. The reason is simple, you use all your body weigh to fight against only your opponent's neck. It was used as assassin technique in the ancient time because the back of the human head is very weak. The best way to apply this move is you walk passing by your opponent's right side. You then apply this move by surprise. In combat, it will require some "set up".

In his clip, he was using the "face push" and "chin push". The rotation axis is a bit shorter than by using the "fore head push". Also his left hand is behind his opponent's waist. This make the rotation axis longer but he has to fight against his opponent's upper body instead of just the neck. IMO, it won't work as well as the "摘盔(Zhai Kui) - helmet remove".

Is this the "deadliest move in all of martial arts"? Next time when you fall back and the back of your head hit on a solid rock, you should be able to draw that conclusion all by yourself.


The move is within many different styles of MA....

It can be done in different ways as the vids and above explanation shows. Is it the "deadliest" technique in MA?

I highly doubt that...

Can it be deadly?

Of course!

If planted on the back of the head on a hard surface like concrete or if caught at the base of the chin just right with the persons body alignment to which your upward motion and their downward motion could possibly snap the neck back or cause a whiplash type effect.

[jdhowland]

"you won't find this killer move taught in normal martial arts." LOL
"Normal" martial arts are all about killing. Not self defense.

And what's this about "documented cases" of hand to hand combat between allied and axis soldiers. I've never read of one that didn't involve weapons. It's salesmanship--lies by omission to manipulate consumers.

In the demo vid the man showing the technique stayed standing and let the "victim" fall. In our lama style we practice the move by guiding the (imaginary) head straight down to the ground while falling into a drop stance and adding a strong percussive smack to the floor. He didn't mention that for some reason. Apparently his guy is dead as soon as he falls. There must be some secret augmentation he uses that makes it deadlier than my "normal" style. I'd better buy his material.

[pazman]

YouKnowWho,
Thanks for the reply. The technique you describe is definitely dangerous, but it very different in execution and context than the one provided in the video clip.

The reason I say the video's technique is not "deadly" is that 1) it would be extremely difficult to drop the head down straight unless you were significantly bigger than your opponent and 2) the body's natural reaction is to bend the body and tuck the chin such that the back of the head doesn't hit the ground. This would only be "deadly" if the opponent was already knocked out when being thrown.

But besides the technical points, the original video is just terrible. You can check out his other videos on youtube....simply the worst.:(

[YouKnowWho]

we practice the move by guiding the (imaginary) head straight down to the ground while falling into a drop stance and adding a strong percussive smack to the floor.
I have a feeling that the guy who made that clip might not want to get into this level of detail. After all, some kid may get this idea from internet, uses it on his friend, and hurt someone.

[jdhowland]

I have a feeling that the guy who made that clip might not want to get into this level of detail. After all, some kid may get this idea from internet, uses it on his friend, and hurt someone.

Probably. OK, I'll give him credit for using some restraint. Actually, I kind of liked his style of presentation. Doesn't seem to be wacko. Just too much generalization and hyperbole.

[Yao Sing]

Seagal doing the move at 3:40 into the clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1V4j7BEcIc&feature=related

[MasterKiller]

Seagal doing the move at 3:40 into the clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1V4j7BEcIc&feature=related

http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/perspective-motivational-poster.jpg

[sanjuro_ronin]

Seagal doing the move at 3:40 into the clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1V4j7BEcIc&feature=related

That is a verison of the typical "irimi nage" an entering throw, in that case it is applied to either under the chin or the actual thoat.
It is not a strike and is dependent on the attackers momentum, as are almost all aikido moves.

[YouKnowWho]

IMO, the word "deadly" means you can kill your opponent (by surprise or from behind) without making any sound.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/159/beggercarrydog.jpg

[Knifefighter]

This move in CMA is called "摘盔(Zhai Kui) - helmet remove". You put your right hand on top of your opponent's forehead (above the eyebrow). You put your left hand behind his head (above the neck). You use your left hand as the leverage, use your right hand to bend his head backward, and then smash the back of his head onto the ground (like a sacrifice throw). It's one move that you can take down a big opponent of any size. The reason is simple, you use all your body weigh to fight against only your opponent's neck. It was used as assassin technique in the ancient time because the back of the human head is very weak. The best way to apply this move is you walk passing by your opponent's right side. You then apply this move by surprise. In combat, it will require some "set up".

In his clip, he was using the "face push" and "chin push". The rotation axis is a bit shorter than by using the "fore head push". Also his left hand is behind his opponent's waist. This make the rotation axis longer but he has to fight against his opponent's upper body instead of just the neck. IMO, it won't work as well as the "摘盔(Zhai Kui) - helmet remove".

Is this the "deadliest move in all of martial arts"? Next time when you fall back and the back of your head hit on a solid rock, you should be able to draw that conclusion all by yourself.

LOL... you must be trolling again. No one is this stupid.

Oh, never mind. I guess the guy in the clip is that stupid also.

[jmd161]

LOL... you must be trolling again. No one is this stupid.

Oh, never mind. I guess the guy in the clip is that stupid also.


Just can't help yourself huh, why can't you add something to the thread?


I guess it's so much easier to be an a$$ hole huh?:rolleyes:


If you feel something doesn't work give an explanation based on your experience why you feel it's not a good technique... I don't get it why a person with your experience and age rather be a ***** then add anything relative?:confused:

[Frost]

That is a verison of the typical "irimi nage" an entering throw, in that case it is applied to either under the chin or the actual thoat.
It is not a strike and is dependent on the attackers momentum, as are almost all aikido moves.

so if he is not running at you waving his arms around it wont work very well....:eek:

[Scott R. Brown]

Just can't help yourself huh, why can't you add something to the thread?


I guess it's so much easier to be an a$$ hole huh?:rolleyes:


If you feel something doesn't work give an explanation based on your experience why you feel it's not a good technique... I don't get it why a person with your experience and age rather be a ***** then add anything relative?:confused:

Perhaps you haven't been here long enough to know that the only one who knows more about everything than Knifefighter is Knifefighter himself. He is an expert on everything and only what he knows is of any value at all!

The only thing bigger than his ego is his A$$hole!


so if he is not running at you waving his arms around it wont work very well....:eek:

Yeah right......create a straw dog and beat it with your d!ck again!

Just like everything else, it works or doesn't work according to the context of the situation, the quality of execution, and the abilities of your opponent. When it doesn't work exactly as demonstrated or explained there are modifications that may be used "in situ" to increase the possibility of success, but nothing works 100% of the time, except in your dreams!

[sanjuro_ronin]

so if he is not running at you waving his arms around it wont work very well....:eek:

Aikido tends to depend on the opponents momentum, of course it can create momentum too.
The front "striking" irimi nage, can be a very powerful "sumo" like slap to the chest ( non"lethal") or a more intense strike to the throat.
But if you wanna get the nice "legs go flying" picture, you need the opponent to come at you with commited force.

[Knifefighter]

Just can't help yourself huh, why can't you add something to the thread?


I guess it's so much easier to be an a$$ hole huh?:rolleyes:


If you feel something doesn't work give an explanation based on your experience why you feel it's not a good technique... I don't get it why a person with your experience and age rather be a ***** then add anything relative?:confused:

Well, first of all, anyone with any sense should realize when a technique that is perfectly legal in the UFC (as well as judo, SAMBO, BJJ, and wrestling) is labeled "too deadly" to be used there, it is generally a big sign that it doesn't work.

Add that to the fact that, even though it would be perfectly fine to use that technique in any of the above listed sports, it's never been used.

You can see it for yourself. Simply try it against a halfway skilled opponent who is resisting. You can't get either the leverage or the position.

[lkfmdc]

I have been occupied lately with dumb stuff like running my gym and family and haven't had much time to sift through this entire thread BUT.....

A quick look and this is the "chin jab" advocated by W E Fairbairn

It's his name, so if it sucks, so be it

Faibairn was a LEO and military man with a lot of real life experience who also literaly dedicated his life to studying how fights really happen and trying to find appropriate training to prepare for this. Applegate was his student and there is a lot of great material that traces itself back to Fairbairn

Unfortunately, there is now a lot of crap that is using Fairbairn to market itself, a lot of STINKYY HORRIBLE CRAP

The technique isn't supposed to be "deadly" just an easy to teach entry into other options

[lkfmdc]

Scans from original work, nothing "secret" or deadly here, but probably would work

[jmd161]

Well, first of all, anyone with any sense should realize when a technique that is perfectly legal in the UFC (as well as judo, SAMBO, BJJ, and wrestling) is labeled "too deadly" to be used there, it is generally a big sign that it doesn't work.

Add that to the fact that, even though it would be perfectly fine to use that technique in any of the above listed sports, it's never been used.

You can see it for yourself. Simply try it against a halfway skilled opponent who is resisting. You can't get either the leverage or the position.


I think just about everyone in this thread has stated the fact that the guy over hyped the technique, It's pretty much an Infomercial.

This is where I have a problem with stuff you and people like you say.


Add that to the fact that, even though it would be perfectly fine to use that technique in any of the above listed sports, it's never been used.

How do you know for certain no one has ever used or applied such a technique? I'm not saying exactly like the video... we've already stated there are many variations on that technique.

I doubt before this thread you had ever heard of a chin jab describing a technique that was not a jab at all... You can say with certainty that you've seen and documented every UFC, MMA, Judo, Sambo, BJJ, and wrestling match ever held looking for such a technique and it's variations and it's never been used or attempted?:rolleyes:

[Knifefighter]

Scans from original work, nothing "secret" or deadly here, but probably would work

Can you slam your hand and fingers into someone's face like that? Of course.

Can you also place you other hand on the opponent's back and then use that "leverage" to slam him forcefully into the ground? Of course not.

[Knifefighter]

How do you know for certain no one has ever used or applied such a technique? I'm not saying exactly like the video... we've already stated there are many variations on that technique.


Can you control the opponent's head with a hand in the face and then use that with a trip or sweep to take him down? Of course.

Can you control the head like that and use your other hand in the back as leverage to take him down? Of course not.

[lkfmdc]

Can you also place you other hand on the opponent's back and then use that "leverage" to slam him forcefully into the ground? Of course not.

I don't see that in anything I said

I don't see that in what I scanned

[Knifefighter]

I don't see that in anything I said

I don't see that in what I scanned

I'm comparing what you scanned (which works) with the technique shown on the clip (which doesn't work).

[lkfmdc]

I'm comparing what you scanned (which works) with the technique shown on the clip (which doesn't work).

ok, got it....

[Frost]

Perhaps you haven't been here long enough to know that the only one who knows more about everything than Knifefighter is Knifefighter himself. He is an expert on everything and only what he knows is of any value at all!

The only thing bigger than his ego is his A$$hole!



Yeah right......create a straw dog and beat it with your d!ck again!

Just like everything else, it works or doesn't work according to the context of the situation, the quality of execution, and the abilities of your opponent. When it doesn't work exactly as demonstrated or explained there are modifications that may be used "in situ" to increase the possibility of success, but nothing works 100% of the time, except in your dreams!

Sorry did someone stop shanking their training mates long enough to start making stupid comments again?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Scans from original work, nothing "secret" or deadly here, but probably would work

Yeah, that is the "non-lethal" chin jab, which is a raising palm heel to the chin and itis used to unbalance and/or open up the opponents defence, since it comes in from down low it can be very sneeky.
The "lethal version" is a tad more dangerous, but pretty hard to do outside of a coup de grace, which is not applicable to self defense of course.

[Yum Cha]

Yeah, that is the "non-lethal" chin jab, which is a raising palm heel to the chin and itis used to unbalance and/or open up the opponents defence, since it comes in from down low it can be very sneeky.
The "lethal version" is a tad more dangerous, but pretty hard to do outside of a coup de grace, which is not applicable to self defense of course.

I believe the lethal strike ruptures a major blood vessel in the back of the head, possibly dislocates the vertebrae in the neck?

Fundamentally, is this any different to a boxers strike "to the button" on the chin? Jab, cross, uppercut? Its the same fundamental attack, only varied delivery and force.

I would think, if you can hit someone on the chin, which we all know is possible, you can hit them with your choice of techniques?

But, why bother with the chin, when you have the throat....

[YouKnowWho]

Can you also place you other hand on the opponent's back and then use that "leverage" to slam him forcefully into the ground? Of course not.
It may be hard to get that contact point (behind your opponent) but it's not impossible. Even in UFC, the Judo "hip throw" had been used where one guy had one arm surrounded another guy's waist.

IMO, the prey mantis system 鉤搂採手(Gou Lou Cai Shou) will be a good "set up" in face to face combat situation for this (may be hard to do with gloves on). Also the "under hook (can turn into a waist hold)" and "over hook (can turn into a head push)" in clinching situation can help you to set this up too.

If you can set up your "front cut (Osoto Gari)", you may also be able to use this move too (just modify your left hand leverage contact point and right hand pushing contact point).

http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/osotogari.htm

Of course the easiest way is to "attack by surprise". You walk pass by your opponent when your opponent does not expect that you are going to attack him.

[SevenStar]

If I master this technique, will I have to get my hands registered as lethal weapons again?

[Scott R. Brown]

Sorry did someone stop shanking their training mates long enough to start making stupid comments again?

Hello pot, my name is kettle!!:p

[sanjuro_ronin]

I believe the lethal strike ruptures a major blood vessel in the back of the head, possibly dislocates the vertebrae in the neck?

See, ALL southern systems ARE related aren't they?
Not sure how you were taught it, but there are a few ways to do it, the results are pretty much the same.


Fundamentally, is this any different to a boxers strike "to the button" on the chin? Jab, cross, uppercut? Its the same fundamental attack, only varied delivery and force.

Well, the chin jab is the same, the technique WE are discussing isn't.


I would think, if you can hit someone on the chin, which we all know is possible, you can hit them with your choice of techniques?

But, why bother with the chin, when you have the throat....

Well, here is the thing, the chin KO is non-lethal and the throat KO CAN be lethal so there is that reason.
You get a more likely Ko on the chin than on the throat or ST9 or any other neck points.

[taai gihk yahn]

Of course the easiest way is to "attack by surprise". You walk pass by your opponent when your opponent does not expect that you are going to attack him.
Ahhh, I see that you are a master of the deadly art of Krock Chu - the underlying philosophy being that you assume the defensive by immediately going into the offensive; for example, you are standing on a street corner and someone approaches you, asking:
"Excuse me sir, do you have the ti..."
"RAHHHH!!!!"
:cool::cool::cool:

[bawang]

if a mma meathead kickboxer tries to do a takedown, block it with a bong sao or a kiu sao. sink chi to dantian and clench anus. lead qi from dantian to shenzhong, then to bai hui, then to yongquan point. send qi from your hands to your oponents mingmeng point. then do "five heroes sit on mountain" stance and shout "WEI". let qi return to dantian chamber your fists.

this is very deadly banned in ufc

for defence against rear naked choke:
let qi absorb thru all your skin pores, shrink into dantian. then release qi into your entire body. imagine melting into the cosmos of the tao. shout "HEI" and perform "luohan listens to sutra". lock his wrist and neutralize his power. chant in your heart three times "om mani benzi". return qi to dantian. perform the inner lion seal. in three days your opponent has problem breathing and eating and his skin peel off. in one week he spontaneously ejaculates and defecates himself. in one month death
very dangerous dont try at home

the complete dvd series here
wudang gar wingchun lawhorn : the complete art of self defnce
part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzDcou5il-A
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwWSxo3xedM

[SevenStar]

deadly at :21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGAE99qawps&feature=related


complete, total ending of a person:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW_3aaxOCKs&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SCEhj76YMs&feature=related


deadly at 3:53:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrlwMjxlNk4&feature=channel

[sanjuro_ronin]

deadly at :21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGAE99qawps&feature=related


complete, total ending of a person:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW_3aaxOCKs&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SCEhj76YMs&feature=related


deadly at 3:53:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrlwMjxlNk4&feature=channel

Bad man post videos that make brain go poop !!!

[Yum Cha]

You get a more likely Ko on the chin than on the throat or ST9 or any other neck points.

Do ya reckon? Fung Ahn to ST 9 or 10? I'll take your word for it, never having actually tried...

But I'd rather the shot to the chin than the Fung Ahn to the neck....LOL.