A few questions for bawang

[Frost]

Since you seem to have such a good grasp on Chinese MA culture and seem in the mood for educating rather than just ***** jokes could you answer a few questions please :)

You said “in 200 years out of 120 winners only 2 cantonese guys won.” What more can you tell us about the exams, what were the purposes of them and who ended up winning most of them?

From reading your posts you seem to have a disapproving view of canton styles and southern styles in general (I have heard this before from other northern practitioners) if I am wrong I apologise but if I’m right why do you have this view, and does this view also extend to hakka arts as well?

What styles do you consider to really represent TCMA and which you would consider worthy of study?

Many thanks!

[David Jamieson]

I just wanna laugh for a little bit here...

don't mind me...

lolololololololol :D

[bawang]

What styles do you consider to really represent TCMA and which you would consider worthy of study?

Many thanks!
hello frost!

anything that does not get you brutally beaten then filmed on camera.

sincerely
bawang


what were the purposes of them and who ended up winning most of them?


it was a giant chi sao competition

[hskwarrior]

Original post by BAWANG
the reason i dont like chy lee fut is because they deny being the main instructors for tai ping rebellion, which killed 1.2 million civilians. and for being pimps and drug dealers in chinatowns in america.

Don't hate us cause we're beautiful. Just HATE us. We hate you too. We hate you even more for escaping the clutches of CLF pimps. you would have made us alot of money.

[bawang]

sometimes i dream about my sigong, who died in the war. we would be walking in a garden, then he say, "avenge me, avenge me"

then i wake up and cray. then i do bicep curls


Don't hate us cause we're beautiful. Just HATE us. We hate you too. We hate you even more for escaping the clutches of CLF pimps. you would have made us alot of money.

dont hat the prayer, hate the gaem

[hskwarrior]

sometimes i dream about my sigong, who died in the war. we would be walking in a garden, then he say, "avenge me, avenge me"

then i wake up and cray. then i do bicep curls

Yet there you are letting your sigung roll over in his grave cause you're too chicken to avenge his death. for shame. For shame. FOr SHaaaaaame.......

SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!

he'll be waiting to give you a LANG KAH.......on your head.

[bawang]

when clf guys finally come out of closet and admit their kung fu was inspired by jesus for jesus, the mo leung will finally be at peace.

u guys even have a cross form. sup ji kuen i believe it is calls.

[Frost]

I just wanna laugh for a little bit here...

don't mind me...

lolololololololol :D

what you can only ask the question:)
, its up to the person if he wants to respond, these are things id like to hear his take on....but seems he doesnt want to respond but thats his choice :)

[bawang]

your uncle (HHG) was a wierdo. NO CLF people dealt with him. We dealt with the REAL Hung Mun, and in Guangzhou, where the leader was the Green Grass Monk. and, [B]we never knew some dude named MOE LEUNG.....who the heck

i also dont like clf people because you guys canalways make fun of otherws but cannot take a joke.

[lkfmdc]

“ Despite only a rudimentary understanding of Christianity, Hung and his followers had a good old time. Temples were massacred, women desecrated and sheep raped. HUNG wore a party hat, danced in a circle to "Louie Louie" and proclaimed himself "Queen of the ball" (?). All opposition was met with less than Christian charity: when choir boys asked to be molested, Hung refused because he said his pee pee didn't work”



and this is the history he's so proud of!

[lkfmdc]

someone isn't paying attention :rolleyes:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Having been exposed to Northern and southern styles I have found that southern systems are a bit FIT for me and find neither better or worse than the other.
I have noticed that, when the **** hit the fan, BOTH are the same.

[hskwarrior]

someone isn't paying attention

yes, i know you are him. Lol

I see it i see it hahahahaha FOOL LOL

[lkfmdc]

Having been exposed to Northern and southern styles I have found that southern systems are a bit FIT for me and find neither better or worse than the other.
I have noticed that, when the **** hit the fan, BOTH are the same.

Done TONS of both, Lama in some ways is both in fact, and when the crap hits the rotary oscillator it's all the same, ie the stuff that works is all the same, the "differences" are mostly the fluff and padding

[lkfmdc]

Frank

1. You are a retard

2. The fact you are still unaware of what I speak is evidence you are a retard

3. The fact you think I am bawang is PROOF you are a reatard

4. You are a retard

[hskwarrior]

Frank

1. You are a retard

2. The fact you are still unaware of what I speak is evidence you are a retard

3. The fact you think I am bawang is PROOF you are a reatard

4. You are a retard

Yes, I am. But you're UGLY. I saw what you did and thought it was sort of funny. you ARE Bawang and in DENIAL. if you're not. you want to be. and if you don't want to be, you're still in denial. But UGLY needs love too. So I LOVE YOU......not really.

and i look better in shorts than you do. :p i do. i really do.

[lkfmdc]

Frank

Your complete lack of even the most basic of education is never in question. Damage to your brain and developmental retardation from your fall and perhaps from poor nutrition in early stages is a tentative theory but remains and open question

Your attempts at "history" amuse most of the forum, to anyone with any formal academic training they are downright hysterical

Unfortunately, just like every other person with no education and lack of cognitive recognition, you are incapable of realizing how huge a joke you are and continue to persist, thus proving the point

Have a pleasant day, and try not to wander off into traffic....

nah, skip the last part, go knock yourself out

[hskwarrior]

Frank

Your complete lack of even the most basic of education is never in question. Damage to your brain and developmental retardation from your fall and perhaps from poor nutrition in early stages is a tentative theory but remains and open question

Your attempts at "history" amuse most of the forum, to anyone with any formal academic training they are downright hysterical

Unfortunately, just like every other person with no education and lack of cognitive recognition, you are incapable of realizing how huge a joke you are and continue to persist, thus proving the point

Have a pleasant day, and try not to wander off into traffic....

nah, skip the last part, go knock yourself out

Dave Ross,

Your RANTS are super TIRED. i mean outright PLAYED OUT. you have NOTHING NEW. YOU are like a BROKEN RECORD. Its ALWAYS the same sh1t OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

Go get yourself circumcised. you need it. Get over yourself, there's really not much to get over either. so it should be a quick transition.

MR MCDOJO with your GROUPONS hahahahahaha

and it doesn't change the fact that YOU'RE STILL ONE UGLY BEAST. and you're a wierdo.

[lkfmdc]

Memo to Frank's students

Class is canceled today because it's raining and it's hard to workout in the park in the rain :rolleyes:

Or have you secured a local basement or garage to work out in now? It doesn't have to be too big, I mean, what, you have like 2 students right?

Thanks for proving my point frank, you are a clown, and too stupid to realize how big a clown you are

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4580&d=1211258307

[hskwarrior]

Memo to Frank's students

Class is canceled today because it's raining and it's hard to workout in the park in the rain

Or have you secured a local basement or garage to work out in now? It doesn't have to be too big, I mean, what, you have like 2 students right?

Thanks for proving my point frank, you are a clown, and too stupid to realize how big a clown you are


See what i mean?? PLAYED OUT......like that Wannabe hair style you got going on there hahaha.....or lack of i mean.

and I still look better than you do. WITH REAL CLF TOO. FAke ass fool.

You yourself are a MAJOR IDIOT cause i don't go around claiming to be a gangster, gangsta, thug, or whatever. YOU PUT THAT ON ME.....i think you got a crush on me. THATS NOT GONNA HAPPEN SWEETIE.....you're so sweet.......but it's not that type of party girl

what else you got? my students son does better photoshop of me than you do.....

WEAK....WEAK.....WEAK.....PLAYED OUT.......LOSER


Or have you secured a local basement or garage to work out in now? It doesn't have to be too big, I mean, what, you have like 2 students right?

Yes I only have TWO students. But, i didn't need a groupon deal to get them. LMAO

[lkfmdc]

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4581&d=1211260481

[hskwarrior]

what else you got? its not that funny yet. the first one was KINDA funny....but give me some light sabers or something. swinging hot dog nun chucks.....SOMETHING FUNNY.....

PLAYED OUT


Your complete lack of

Thats your defense mechanism huh? and oh, i won't need groupons for my garage. YOU do for your school though......HOW CUUUUUUUUTE.

[lkfmdc]

in a battle of wits, poor Frank is defenseless :rolleyes:

http://dc-cdn.virtacore.com/2011/04/crying-teething-baby.jpg

[hskwarrior]

Wrong Hair color SORRY SUCKA YOU.....

it may have been funny if you had some imagination or talent.....but....

YA DON'T!!!!! :D sux 2 b u

[hskwarrior]

come on ROSSIE.....i know you got something funny in your soul other than that face.......

Nevermind, i gave you too much credit. my bad. sorry.

[hskwarrior]

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/29518_398411612731_697132731_4195993_464898_n.jpg

or even THIS.....

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/29518_398304207731_697132731_4193110_3683870_n.jpg

EHH.....NOT TOO MUCH....sorta....but fell short. but DO keep trying...try try try.

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4580&d=1211258307

[Jimbo]

I trained northern style(s) for 10 years (Mantis and some Long Fist/Chaquan) and southern (CLF) for 18 years (plus a couple years of Lung Ying in the '80s). I like both, esp. Mantis and CLF. I eventually switched over completely to CLF because it suits me just a little better than the Mantis did, though I felt comfortable with both.

I've noticed a lot of northern practitioners like to put down southern styles, moreso than vice versa. The whole northern vs. southern debate is pretty silly, esp. in modern times. They both work very well, if you know what you're doing. Skill level/experience mean more than where on the map it originated.

[hskwarrior]

CLF was my fit as well. I've done tae kwon do, boxing, judo and Tai Mantis as a kid. couldn't find the one that fit me till i found my sifu.

[SPJ]

what is group pon?

:confused::D

[Ben Gash]

Your RANTS are super TIRED. i mean outright PLAYED OUT. you have NOTHING NEW. YOU are like a BROKEN RECORD. Its ALWAYS the same sh1t OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.


Wow, it's true, Americans really do have no grasp of irony :rolleyes:

[hskwarrior]

Wow, it's true, Americans really do have no grasp of irony

Ben, STFU. :D

the irony is claiming that the green grass monk didn't exist only for your lineage to try and STEAL his identity and place it on choy fook. something your lineage still tries to pass off. THATS IRONIC.

[JamesC]

I can't believe the Green Grass Monk is still being argued over...

[Fei Ling Skool]

I can't believe the Green Grass Monk is still being argued over...


there's a lot of green grass monks can argue about in California.

[hskwarrior]

there's a lot of green grass monks can argue about in California

Yup! ......

[lkfmdc]

I can't believe the Green Grass Monk is still being argued over...

well, you know Frank :rolleyes:

[hskwarrior]

LAME!!!! BORING. NOT FUNNY.

You really shouldn't post naked pics of your mother on the forum then try to pass her off as me....NOT COOL.

and you definitely didn't start losing your hair from your moms side of the family

[David Jamieson]

what is group pon?

:confused::D

It's a marketing device used primarily in social networking sites.
It offers a special price on something provided a particular amount of people buy the service or thing.

so, regular price is 75 dollars, but if they seel a groupon to 200 people, they can have it for 50 as long as all 200 groupons sold.

it's a coupon, but it has a catch. :)
It is the same as a group buy.

cheers

[JamesC]

Google: group porn :D

[hskwarrior]

Google: group porn

i'm scared to look! LOL

[bawang]

LAME!!!! BORING. NOT FUNNY.


i think it is funny.

[hskwarrior]

i think it is funny.

I think YOU're funny.

[bawang]

frank, there were only three major rebellions in the recent past. the christian rebellion, the musim rebellion, and the pro qing anti christian rebellion. you guys are anti qing, you guys arent muslims, and your forms are named after jesus and the heavenly kingdom.

what are you afraid of frank? what are your crimes?

[hskwarrior]

frank, there were only three major rebellions in the recent past. the christian rebellion, the musim rebellion, and the pro qing anti christian rebellion. you guys are anti qing, you guys arent muslims, and your forms are named after jesus and the heavenly kingdom.

thats why i think you're funny.

[bawang]

lets spell it out

"tai ji kuen"
"ping ji kuen"
"ting ji kuen"
"gok ji kuen"

"tai ping tin gok". the heavenly kingdom of jesus.

the chan family said in chinese interview chan heung was the chief instructor for the heavenly kingdom and personally instructed the southern heavenly king.

...or are you a manchu lover?

[bawang]

the triads LOVED him ,man. even his name was hung. they said it was destiny.

do you believe in destiny, frank?

[bawang]

o frank, frank, frank. *shake head let me tell you a story.

in 1900 there was a rebellion near my hometown called the new tang. it was a warlord with over 500 followers. the government paid no mind until they raided a neighboring village.
then it was bombarded by artillery for 2 weeks by the "godkillers"division of the qing army..

hopefully that wil put your rebel fantaies to rest my fren.

[David Jamieson]

do you really believe when the chinese as a way of life, thought, and beliefs were in danger of extincion by euroean colonizers, that the hung men really wanted to overthrow the qing dynasty? chinese and manchu, we are family.

So when the Qing usurped in 1644-45 it was the fault of the Europeans?
Where you going with this? lol

[bawang]

So when the Qing usurped in 1644-45 it was the fault of the Europeans?
Where you going with this? lol

i am referring to the boxer rebellion that happened after the opium war, and influx of missionaries.

[bawang]

what do you have that will change my mind about the Manchu and Hung Mun were family? or even anyone chinese for that matter?

times change, frank. the hongmen in america came before the boxer rebellion. when china was not flooded by missionaries and opium.

southern china had the most seaports and were the first to break and convert. hung men was among the first to switch allegiance.

even the white lotus supported the qing.

[YouKnowWho]

there were MANY MANY bandits who used the fame of the Hung Mun by claiming they were members of them as well. HM got the short end of the stick at times because of people trying to use their name to commit crimes.
This problem is caused by Hung doesn't have restricted rules against people who pretend to be Hung. It's a serious trouble if you are not Qing but pretend you are.

In the old time, you have to belong to Qing first before you can belong to Hung. This way at least your teacher in Qing can have control over you. In Hung, there are all brothers. It's very difficult to control your brothers.

[bawang]

frank, frank ,frank.

manchu have been bilingual for over 500 years, and followed many chinese customs. chiense still viewed them as foreign.

do you really think rebels would choose europeans over manchus?

[bawang]

to do with why wuold hung men choose westerners over the manchus.

think, frend. you are my brother. i cares. to open the mind


So, if the chinese viewed the Manchu as their family, why was some places so poor that they resorted to killing strangers, chopping them up and making Human Pork Buns out of them?


well, the catholic missionaries in 1900 said the famine was caused by god, because chinese were heathens.
the chinese rebels took it for real, and thuoght priests and nuns were channeling some sort of dark arcane magic. then started the boxer rebellion.

[bawang]

frank, you are in america. yuo know how christian preachers use gimmicks and rhetoric.
in 1900 many missionaries said the famine was caused by god. this brought back bitter memories of the tai ping rebelionand many rebels switched allegience to prserve china. the motto is worry abuot the qing later, because soon there wont be a china.

[Lee Chiang Po]

It's a marketing device used primarily in social networking sites.
It offers a special price on something provided a particular amount of people buy the service or thing.

so, regular price is 75 dollars, but if they seel a groupon to 200 people, they can have it for 50 as long as all 200 groupons sold.

it's a coupon, but it has a catch. :)
It is the same as a group buy.

cheers

What? I be damd. I thought it was that french mustard.

[bawang]

Fan Qing Fu Ming came much later. The original Hung Mun slogan was Obey Heaven and Follow the Way. then, Obey Heaven and Exterminate the Qing.
at 1900 it was extermiante the foreigners and preserve the qing.

times change, frank. are you with the rebels or against them?

[David Jamieson]

i am referring to the boxer rebellion that happened after the opium war, and influx of missionaries.

ah, but that was not the focus of the rebellions against the qing and happened via the qing vs the europeans....and losing.

the anti qing uprisings happened long before the boxer fiasco (wasn't really much of a rebellion)

[bawang]

what do you have against manchus frank? what have they ever done to you? do you also hate arabs and brown people?

[JamesC]

Here I am. Bow peasants.

[bawang]

are you claiming sun yatsan is the son of heaven? do you worship him?

[bawang]

are you then saying tht your lodge is directly responsible for breaking the cycle of the mandate of heaven?

thats a crimer greater than any manchu, frank. your lodge ended traditional chinese civilization.

[hskwarrior]

are you then saying tht your lodge is directly responsible for breaking the cycle of the mandate of heaven?

thats a crimer greater than any manchu, frank. your lodge ended traditional chinese civilization.

what tradition was ended? oh, EFF the Mandate of Heaven. Down with the Qing.

[bawang]

you are pulling an eric olson on me, frank.

[David Jamieson]

are you claiming sun yatsan is the son of heaven? do you worship him?

Did you ever consider that your civilization fell to the Euros because they thought mere men were gods? ;)

[SPJ]

Dr. Sun borrowed political ideas from the french and the american.

no emperor or all subjects/civilians are all emperors.

president and officials are public servants for the civilians.

since china is with some many peoples

so people's representatives are elected to the parliment

the power of the president is checked by the parliment

that was why yuan shi kai closed down the parliment

hence the second revolution against yuan

--

:)

[SPJ]

north and south was divided by the longest river and rugged mountain terrains in the south,

chinese civilization started in the middle plain in the north (of yang zi river)

the south was considered barbarians till later

the south was good at fighting with boats on the water or shui jun.

at red cliff

cao cao commanding an army with little or no experiences for fighting on the water/river

--

:)

[SPJ]

qing was weakened by 2 moslem uprisings or hui bian.

and turned upside down by tai ping uprising. army of jesus

--

dr sun was there to tip the balance

and qing fell

political reform without removing the emperor was considered first

however, empress ci xi was in power

china lost both land and sea battles to japan

dr sun cut off his pony tail and vowed to remove the monarchy

---

[bawang]

what tradition was ended? oh, EFF the Mandate of Heaven. Down with the Qing.

frank. fraaaaaaaaank. frank.

dont try to pull a patriotic muslim on me, frank. youre breaking my balls here, frank. breaking my balls.


Did you ever consider that your civilization fell to the Euros because they thought mere men were gods? ;)

noe hhuhuh

[hskwarrior]

frank. fraaaaaaaaank. frank.

dont try to pull a patriotic muslim on me, frank. youre breaking my balls here, frank. breaking my balls.

what did the original chinese lose by having the Qing overthrown?

[bawang]

theres nothing chinese about chinese people today, frank. we are a defeated, empty people. thats why the chinese wimmens all chase the white penus.

gime back my wimmens, frank. give them back.

[YouKnowWho]

What styles do you consider to really represent TCMA and which you would consider worthy of study?

As far as I know, there were more Chuo Jiao people competed in the last 3 Chinese national tournaments than any other styles. By looking at this clip, it's not hard to figure out why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IomX4gESIlM&feature=related

If an old Chuo Jiao master could still have this kind of flexibility and balance, we can see how hard that they trained.

http://tupian.hudong.com/a1_36_71_01300000244640122381717046014_jpg.html?pr d=zhengwenye_left_neirong_tupian

If I can live my life all over again, I want to train that style too.

[Scott R. Brown]

I've noticed a lot of northern practitioners like to put down southern styles, moreso than vice versa.

It was more than a Kung Fu thing, it was a cultural thing. In general, the Southerners were considered uneducated country bumpkins by the Northerners


are you then saying tht your lodge is directly responsible for breaking the cycle of the mandate of heaven?

The problem was in thinking they had a mandate from heaven to begin with!

Oppressors NEVER have a mandate from Heaven!

I must point out however, there is a difference between "oppressing a group" and "keeping the rabble from getting out of control"!

[Scott R. Brown]

the emperor can do whatever he wants. thats the point of having an emperor.

Not quite!

Many/Most Emperors at least requested sanction from major recognized Taoist leaders in order to support "t'ai ping" (Great Tranquility) which was the responsibility of the emperors, with the advice of Taoist Masters/Leaders, to maintain!

For example:

Wang Yuan-chih, a major Taoist leader, (528-635) withdrew his support for Yang-ti, the Ch'en dynasty Sui emperor, because Yang-ti chose to move the capital. He then secretly transmitted the authority, title and mandate of Heaven to the Li Yuan and thus established the T'ang Dynasty!

Wang bestowed the title: T'ai-p'ing t'ien-tzu "the Son of Heaven of Great Tranquility" on T'ao-tsung, the second T'ang emperor as well!

[hskwarrior]

gime back my wimmens, frank. give them back.

No NO, we won't have any of that now.....LOL

[taai gihk yahn]

As far as I know, there were more Chuo Jiao people competed in the last 3 Chinese national tournaments than any other styles. By looking at this clip, it's not hard to figure out why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IomX4gESIlM&feature=related

If an old Chuo Jiao master could still have this kind of flexibility and balance, we can see how hard that they trained.

http://tupian.hudong.com/a1_36_71_01300000244640122381717046014_jpg.html?pr d=zhengwenye_left_neirong_tupian

If I can live my life all over again, I want to train that style too.

a lot of good stuff in their - basically context specific training, with increasing levels of randomness / complexity built in (e.g. - the kick progression, from air, to pad, to stick, to person); in a way, it's in principle a lot like some of the contemporary "functional" strengthening and agility exercises you see in MMA and elsewhere: the pole 2-person work is excellent for core stabilization, the kicking the weighted object across the floor is good for cardio and strengthening - just goes to show that styles that train functionally will derive effective means of development over those that don't, and those effective means will look more similar than not across the board

the four point balancing shown in this viedo also is very good stuff to do as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v89I7rp0ZrI&feature=related

[taai gihk yahn]

It was more than a Kung Fu thing, it was a cultural thing. In general, the Southerners were considered uneducated country bumpkins by the Northerners

yeah, kinda like how we educated East Coasters look at all those West Coast hippies...

[Scott R. Brown]

yeah, kinda like how we educated East Coasters look at all those West Coast hippies...

Don't you mean how you Educated East Coasters view EVERYONE else?

I, on the other hand, agree with Cartman, all Hippies should be killed for the greater good of Mankind! And when I say Mankind, I am referring to the Professional Wrestler! I think he eats Hippies for breakfast!:eek:

You East Coasters, on the other hand, just need to be institutionalized!

[wenshu]

Did bawang and Frank really just spend all day arguing about which one of them is more Chinese?

[SPJ]

or one is north voucher

and the other is south advocate.

:)

[bawang]

there is no such thing as south. there is cantonese and normal people.

[hskwarrior]

Did bawang and Frank really just spend all day arguing about which one of them is more Chinese?

a big NO. History does not mean someone is trying to be another ethnicity. LOL

[bawang]

frank is down with the hip hoop like shi yan ming and black toast

hip hoop kung fu

[hskwarrior]

frank is down with the hip hoop like shi yan ming

I AM hip hoop...i live hip hoop. it's a culture thing. haha.

[SPJ]

me love all kinds of ethnic foods

peking duck, mongolian bar be gue

cantonese dim sum

fu zhou (foo chow) fried rice cakes

su zhou snacks or small items or xiao dian

tibetant yak milk

moslem sesame giant cake

--

[JamesC]

I'm bookmarking this thread for the multitude of awesome quotes from Bawang. I can never run out of signatures again.

[SPJ]

I love russian bread from harbin, too.

:)

[sanjuro_ronin]

a lot of good stuff in their - basically context specific training, with increasing levels of randomness / complexity built in (e.g. - the kick progression, from air, to pad, to stick, to person); in a way, it's in principle a lot like some of the contemporary "functional" strengthening and agility exercises you see in MMA and elsewhere: the pole 2-person work is excellent for core stabilization, the kicking the weighted object across the floor is good for cardio and strengthening - just goes to show that styles that train functionally will derive effective means of development over those that don't, and those effective means will look more similar than not across the board

the four point balancing shown in this viedo also is very good stuff to do as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v89I7rp0ZrI&feature=related

Agreed, although I would recommend they keep their hands up.

[wenshu]

frank is down with the hip hoop like shi yan ming and black toast

hip hoop kung fu

Look the part, be the part motherf*cker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sgj78QG9Bg

[lkfmdc]

For anyone who might be interested in real history (why would you be here? :confused: but that aside)

The "north" was long considered nomadic barbarians while the "south" was considered the "real Chinese". The North copied the south and the south was where things like the concept of emperor and mandate of heaven originated. Also, Cantonese is closer to classical Chinese than northern dialects

[bawang]

canton is the borderland fringe of china. any more south and its the vetnam. by "south" chinese dont mean THAT south. man.

[hskwarrior]

The "north" was long considered nomadic barbarians while the "south" was considered the "real Chinese". The North copied the south and the south was where things like the concept of emperor and mandate of heaven originated. Also, Cantonese is closer to classical Chinese than northern dialects

Randomness.......LOL


canton is the borderland fringe of china. any more south and its the vetnam. by "south" chinese dont mean THAT south. man.

and more randomness

[wenshu]

For anyone who might be interested in real history (why would you be here? :confused: but that aside)

The "north" was long considered nomadic barbarians while the "south" was considered the "real Chinese". The North copied the south and the south was where things like the concept of emperor and mandate of heaven originated. Also, Cantonese is closer to classical Chinese than northern dialects

Can you source that?

[bawang]

the han emperor was born 2 hours from my hometown. we aint no speaking no cantonese jibber jabber.

[omarthefish]

For anyone who might be interested in real history (why would you be here? :confused: but that aside)

The "north" was long considered nomadic barbarians while the "south" was considered the "real Chinese". The North copied the south and the south was where things like the concept of emperor and mandate of heaven originated. Also, Cantonese is closer to classical Chinese than northern dialects

Sure. . . .that sounds credible . . . coming from a guy steeped in Toisan culture. :rolleyes:

I can agree about halfway. Cantonese is considered by most scholars to be cloeser to classical Chinese and I accept that the whole "mandate of heaven" and so on concepts originated in the south seeing as so many of the more famose scholars came from Suzhou and other southern cities but "real Chinese" ??? :confused: How do you square that with the fact that for the VAST majority of Chinese history the capital of China has been in the north. Actually, just off the top of my head, when has it ever been in the south? I don't feel like looking it up right now but I live in Xi'an which was the capital for like . . .uh.. . about a dozen dynasties. Ok, people tend to include Xianyang in there when counting and then there's Zhou which is like an hours drive west of here. The last couple 2 or 3 were in Beijing and there were a handful Kaifeng, but those are ALL northern cities.

So how was the the emperor of China not "real Chinese" culture for 2000+ years?

p.s.
As for the imperial examinations and martial arts that Bawang brought up, that's a red herring seeing as in "imperial" China there would naturally be a MASSIVE preponderance of northerners even just taking the tests. I mean, this was befor airplanes or railroads or anything. Just making the trip from Guangdong to Hebei/Henan (depends on the dynasty) would have been a MAJOR undertaking. Ok, Henan, not so bad but Hebei. . . .fergeddaboutit.

[bawang]

by "closer to real chinese" he meant cantonese have the chicken clucks "bok bok bok"

first han emperor come from my region. we speak mandarin with a cluck. but we dont speak with an obvious viet jungle accent.

[omarthefish]

哈哈哈哈哈 。 。 。

晕

[bawang]

what chinese culture was taken from the chinese as a result of the Hung Society overthrowing the Manchu?


everything except the language

your perception of chinese culture seem to be a bunch of old ladies selling cabbage in chinatown and lion dance

give me back my emperor, frank. give him back. how does it feel to comit cultural genocide, frank?

哈哈哈哈哈 。 。 。

晕

nice u spak the chieese

NI HAO

[bawang]

about making the monehs, frank. stop bragging about the monehs. i know you ass is broke.

in 1 year i will graduate from scoos, then i will be making 50k a year minimum.
do you want me to send you some monehs, frank?

be specific please. and have a source to back it up.




frank, frank, frank. you seem to thing all those sky scrapers and chinese women walking downtown shanghai in thongs is normal, or progress.

if i could nuke china , i would in a heartbeat, frank.

[hskwarrior]

frank, frank, frank. you seem to thing all those sky scrapers and chinese women walking downtown shanghai in thongs is normal, or progress.

All i know about Shanghai is Ching Mun & CHING P'ang. fuk the rest. :cool:

[JamesC]

Yeah, LOL, I'm broke like a pair of butt cheeks. I don't have rich mommies and daddies like some of you sissies on here. :rolleyes:

...my parents were poor as ****. My best friend's parents were loaded as hell. How does that make HIM a sissy?

Frank, that makes no sense. Because his parents have money that makes him a wuss? Come on, dude. You're starting to insult just about every person on these boards with all of your ramblings.

[bawang]

my family lived on ten thousand dollars a year on my fathers college scholarship.
if you didnt blow your money on weed and go to scoos, you couldve been like me, frank.

i worked at 4 dollars an hour in chinatown less than 5 years ago. i didnt see you there frank were you too busy with the hip hoop?

[David Jamieson]

me love all kinds of ethnic foods

peking duck, mongolian bar be gue

cantonese dim sum

fu zhou (foo chow) fried rice cakes

su zhou snacks or small items or xiao dian

tibetant yak milk

moslem sesame giant cake

--

wait...wouldn't ethnic food to you be cheeseburgers, hotdogs, lager beers, schnitzels, ladkas, halopchis, perogies, roasts, chicken cordon blue, beef wellington, bangers and mash, fry ups, etc?

all that stuff you mentioned is ethnic to me! lol

[bawang]

You should write a book about your life story. It may sell a book or two.

you are not even a success in the hippity hoop, frank.

this is real hippity hoop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yrSwskzLDs

[lkfmdc]

Can you source that?


Sure. . . .that sounds credible . . . coming from a guy steeped in Toisan culture. :rolleyes:




To wenshu, the following is source, the comment is really for Omar...

Omar, for ****'s sake, read a history book :rolleyes:

Go back to around 300 and look at the "3 kingdoms" and look at Dong Wu

Then look at the Jin

The Bei wei were considered of nomadic barbarian roots while the Liu Song were considered "the Chinese"

You are in China aren't you? Ask someone from Shanghai if they are a "northerner" and see what reaction you get!

[bawang]

exactly man.

by south , chinese means fujian and shanghai region. they dont mean the vetnam border. everybody claims theyre the real chinese man. but those who are dont need to.


Hey thanks. however, more successful at it than YOU will ever be. no deezy!

but the song you posted is White people music. Hippity Hop RULES all.

well the CURRENT state of Hippity Bawossity SUCKS the sweat off of the balls of all your ancestors be them in china or mars.......its YOUR type of music now.

what the fuk is "hippity hop"?

[SPJ]

wait...wouldn't ethnic food to you be cheeseburgers, hotdogs, lager beers, schnitzels, ladkas, halopchis, perogies, roasts, chicken cordon blue, beef wellington, bangers and mash, fry ups, etc?

all that stuff you mentioned is ethnic to me! lol

yes. the food is also culture related.

1. mongolian living on grassland, they drink horse milk and bar be que lamb etc

2. tibetan living on high grounds, they drink yak milk.

3. su zhou is rich with fishes and shrimps with great lakes and longest river, eating small items, drinking tea and listening to opera or story/book telling with strung instrument or ping tang.

4. fu zhou is with rugged mountains and rice cake is a popular item, difficult to farm, so most of them go overseas to make a living

5. harbin is so close to russia, actually, it is a half russian half chinese town, not just people but also churches/architecture etc

6. moslem on horse back or camel back, giant cake is good for travelling on the grassland and desert, one may eat it for a week.

--

that was what I meant by ethnic chinese food.

:)

[David Jamieson]

@bawang

50k? with a degree?
you need to adjust your money scope dude, it's 2011.
As you are in ontario, if you are starting at a salary of less than 65k in a bonafide profession or computer sciences, someone is boning you in the hoo ha or you are working for a fail company.

[omarthefish]

To wenshu, the following is source, the comment is really for Omar...

Omar, for ****'s sake, read a history book :rolleyes:

Go back to around 300 and look at the "3 kingdoms" and look at Dong Wu

Then look at the Jin

Most Chinese today don't get their culture from the 3 Kingdoms period. Philosophically, the biggest influence is Han but culturally it's all about the Tang and in the Tang period the center of culture had already moved north. You are pointing to one of the least unified periods of all of Chinese history and staking a claim there as the source of "Chineseness".



The Bei wei were considered of nomadic barbarian roots while the Liu Song were considered "the Chinese"
"Considered" by whom? . . . by southern Chinese people of course. :p


You are in China aren't you? Ask someone from Shanghai if they are a "northerner" and see what reaction you get!
:confused: What does Shanghai have to do with the price of tea in China?

[lkfmdc]

Most Chinese today don't get their culture from the 3 Kingdoms period.



are you really being this obtuse? The present is the sum of the past. You can't just say "oh, that period, it doesn't count" LOL

I also went well beyond the three kingdom period




it's all about the Tang and in the Tang period the center of culture had already moved north.



YOu really (REALLY) need to read more about the Tang if you want to continue to argue this. The structures, underlying concepts and method of rule of the Tang came from the kingdoms before, which were geographically in what is now called "south"

by the Tang, the pattern was established, northerners rulling from the north but using a philosophical justification that originated in the south

You might was well say that the Yuan and the Qing were Chinese, they ruled as emperors :rolleyes:





"Considered" by whom? . . .



When within living memory your predecessors were nomadic tribes you were a "barbarian" - compared to Jin and Southern Liang who had been for hundreds of years "Chinese"

Again, READ SOME HISTORY BOOKS :rolleyes:





:confused: What does Shanghai have to do with the price of tea in China?



You seem to think south = guangdong... quite incorrect

[JamesC]

why are you taking this to heart? LOL....if i didn't name you directly its just a generalization. are you feeling guilty for something? LOL

But yeah, the poor folks DO feel that the rich could never survive in their environment. i know for a fact that people feel that way. no doubt.

I'm not taking it to heart...

Just making an observation. If anything I find that your recent posts are mildly amusing.

[hskwarrior]

Posted by Brawang
what the fuk is "hippity hop"?

I thought it was your moms nick name :confused:

[David Jamieson]

what the fuk is "hippity hop"?

it's what peter cotton tail does whilst moving down the bunny trail...

[David Jamieson]

you scare me david. you really scare me. :eek:

but it's true!

[Northwind]

frank is down with the hip hoop like shi yan ming and black toast

lol well I gotta say this is funny - actually a few years ago I was at a tournament in New Orleans, and once the competitions were done for the day, a bunch of training brothers, students, friends & myself all went out to the French Quarter (I guess "a few years" isn't accurate, as this was before Katrina) to have our fun times...

And I totally ran into the shi, wearing a hip hop suit, kangol hat and um..."macking"...:P

[Northwind]

Look the part, be the part motherf*cker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sgj78QG9Bg

LOVE this clip! Definitely keeping on to this one!

[Northwind]

For anyone who might be interested in real history (why would you be here? :confused: but that aside)

The "north" was long considered nomadic barbarians while the "south" was considered the "real Chinese". The North copied the south and the south was where things like the concept of emperor and mandate of heaven originated. Also, Cantonese is closer to classical Chinese than northern dialects

Bei jing
Nan jing

...

[Northwind]

the han emperor was born 2 hours from my hometown. we aint no speaking no cantonese jibber jabber.

The man just said jibber jabber...

[Northwind]

why are you taking this to heart? LOL....if i didn't name you directly its just a generalization. are you feeling guilty for something? LOL

But yeah, the poor folks DO feel that the rich could never survive in their environment. i know for a fact that people feel that way. no doubt.

Quoted For Truth

[Northwind]

it's what peter cotton tail does whilst moving down the bunny trail...

LMAO! Well played, sir!

[lkfmdc]

Bei jing
Nan jing

...

LOL, you really have no idea what you are talking about :rolleyes:

[Northwind]

LOL, you really have no idea what you are talking about :rolleyes:

And back atcha I laugh. I made no other statement other than naming two cities in China. Conclusions can be drawn from the names' meanings, as well as history.

Not to mention this whole bickering over the mason-dixon line in China is, to use extremely educated parlance, "RETARDED".

[hskwarrior]

and back atcha i laugh. I made no other statement other than naming two cities in china. Conclusions can be drawn from the names' meanings, as well as history.

:d:d:d:d:d

[omarthefish]

And back atcha I laugh. I made no other statement other than naming two cities in China. Conclusions can be drawn from the names' meanings, as well as history.

Not to mention this whole bickering over the mason-dixon line in China is, to use extremely educated parlance, "RETARDED".
That's my point in a nutshell.

Right off the bat I said I completely agree with much of "the south's" claim (ancient Chinese, place of Suzhou/Shanghai area with regard to ancient scholarship) but much of the rest is just southern hooey. May has well be arguing about which part of America best "defines American culture". Well all know that "real America" is defines by the rural midwest . . I mean ... by the west Coast and it's media dominance...er, uh . . .northeastern states were where it started. . .

"mason-dixon" line is a good analogy and trying to argue that one's particular exposure to China is "more Chinese" than another's is just as retarded as Taiwanese trying to tell mainlanders how they are more Chinese than the PRC.

[omarthefish]

p.s.

Ironically, I jumped on to this thread to defend southern kung fu since I thought that lack of participation in imperial military examinations is a stupid standard when you consider the geographical issues. Heck, even today whenever there is a "national" competition what you get is 80% from the town holding the comp, 15% from neighboring provinces and 5% tops who actually hopped on a train cross-country or even across more than one provincial border to compete.

I can see people traveling for 3 or 4 months to take the literary exams since passing that is better than winning the lottery but the military stuff? That and the fact that so much of the better southern martial artists seems to have been represented by organized crime more than government agencies.. (a surprisingly small difference between the two in many cases though. :o)

[David Jamieson]

Southern Kung Fu, fiction or not, is a lot of fun to practice. :D

[hskwarrior]

三 川 口 ........

It's strange how some people lurk and stalk every thread you're on.......Wierd man.

[PalmStriker]

Done TONS of both, Lama in some ways is both in fact, and when the crap hits the rotary oscillator it's all the same, ie the stuff that works is all the same, the "differences" are mostly the fluff and padding

Great outlook! :D

[PalmStriker]

Reading long thread make me hungry, though. http://www.google.com/search?q=Chinese+cuisine,+pictures&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6Hm&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=skzsTfOsEanL0QH7_umHAQ&ved=0CBsQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=688 :)

[Violent Designs]

What geographical location best defines Chinese culture? Shandong, heart of China.

This should settle the retarded debate I see going on.

Reading the half-literate (historically speaking) rabble being posted on here =

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4544/facepalm4l.jpg

[Scott R. Brown]

What geographical location best defines Chinese culture? Shandong, heart of China.

This should settle the retarded debate I see going on.

Reading the half-literate (historically speaking) rabble being posted on here =

So......what your are saying is, "It takes a retard to solve a retarded argument?":eek:

[SPJ]

Reading long thread make me hungry, though. http://www.google.com/search?q=Chinese+cuisine,+pictures&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6Hm&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=skzsTfOsEanL0QH7_umHAQ&ved=0CBsQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=688 :)

wow.

drooling and still drooling.

:)

[SPJ]

What geographical location best defines Chinese culture? Shandong, heart of China.

This should settle the retarded debate I see going on.

Reading the half-literate (historically speaking) rabble being posted on here =



shang dong used to be called Lu 鲁

---

hakka or guest family/people was thought to be living in northern china

they migrated south to canton near mei county or plum county to avoid war in the north.

the lingo that hakka people is using may be more close to old chinese. you may use it to read old text and it ryhmes.

pe king nese or mandarin, when used to read old poems or texts, sounds do not rhyme---

--

[hskwarrior]

Yet NONE of you are talking about that lost black tribe in China. :cool:

[Scott R. Brown]

shang dong used to be called Lu 鲁

---

hakka or guest family/people was thought to be living in northern china

they migrated south to canton near mei county or plum county to avoid war in the north.

the lingo that hakka people is using may be more close to old chinese. you may use it to read old text and it ryhmes.

pe king nese or mandarin, when used to read old poems or texts, sounds do not rhyme---

--

Now THIS is interesting! Are you saying that their everyday, colloquial/conversational speech rhymes? Or that it is just a generally melodious dialect?

[wenshu]

Yet NONE of you are talking about that lost black tride in China. :cool:

What is a "tride"?

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/square/000/002/135/sw50sw8sw578.gif?1293729577

[hskwarrior]

What is a "tride"?

it is the after affects of Typo-syndrome....very similar to Finger Tourettes

and how is what i said racist?

[SPJ]

Now THIS is interesting! Are you saying that their everyday, colloquial/conversational speech rhymes? Or that it is just a generally melodious dialect?

1 dialects are so diverse, more so in the south due to rugged mountain terrains or travelling forbidding--

2 offical languages or guan hua

used by the officials is to remain more or less the "same"

some old poems and not all the poems, if you use hakka lingo to read, it rhymes, while you use mandarin, sounds wrong and does not rhyme.

---

[Scott R. Brown]

1 dialects are so diverse, more so in the south due to rugged mountain terrains or travelling forbidding--

2 offical languages or guan hua

used by the officials is to remain more or less the "same"

some old poems and not all the poems, if you use hakka lingo to read, it rhymes, while you use mandarin, sounds wrong and does not rhyme.

---

I see, so what you are saying is that the hakka dialect is closer to the ancient language in which the poetry was written. It has changed the least over the centuries.

[bawang]

thats a dangerous assumption

[Scott R. Brown]

thats a dangerous assumption

So, you are saying that reading ancient Chinese poetry in the hakka dialect is living life on the razors edge?:confused:

[bawang]

mandarin is the direct descendant of ancient chinese. the only difference is the chicken clucks have disappeared.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Nothing wrong with a razors edge
http://www.celebforyou.com/d/7221-5/scarlett-johansson-saving-legs-in-underwear.jpg

[David Jamieson]

The cool thing about living in Canada is that even though it's bigger geographically than China, more diverse and with huge separation between it cities I can go to any of them and understand.

Good old English Language, you are the choice of the world! woot! :D

[Scott R. Brown]

The cool thing about living in Canada is that even though it's bigger geographically than China, more diverse and with huge separation between it cities I can go to any of them and understand.

Good old English Language, you are the choice of the world! woot! :D

My understanding is that, while they CAN speak English in Quebec, they prefer not too, and frown upon English speakers! How is that different than bawang frowning on every other Chinese on this board, especially the hakka?:eek::p

[bawang]

i havent frowned on any chinese. i frown on insecure assimilated viets who insist to be the real chinese.

everything cantonese is a twisted caricature of the real china. including kung fu.

white people like to keep it that way because they are not intimidated by cantos. ching chong ching chong danny devito ching chong chong.

[Scott R. Brown]

i havent frowned on any chinese. i frown on insecure assimilated viets who insist to be the real chinese.

everything cantonese is a twisted caricature of the real china. including kung fu.

white people like to keep it that way because they are not intimidated by cantos. ching chong ching chong danny devito ching chong chong.

Riiiiiiiiight!!!! Its all a conspiracy to keep danny devito, I mean ching chong, DOWN!!!!:rolleyes:

[bawang]

ur dam right it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLleRZPbjeo&feature=related
u guys like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moRKa3y3XxA
asian martial art with actual dignity? not so much

[Scott R. Brown]

ur dam right it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLleRZPbjeo&feature=related
u guys like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moRKa3y3XxA
asian martial art with actual dignity? not so much

You shud not blame wite piples 4 thair imgorantness! Dey had to lerm dair kum foo form a Chinese Man at sum pooint!

Use gheys did it 2 urs selfs!:p

[bawang]

they never learned from chinese. they learned from cantonese.

[Scott R. Brown]

they never learned from chinese. they learned from cantonese.


Who are? Viets?

[hskwarrior]

Who are? Viets?

No, pakistani

[bawang]

the mongol and chinese are one family, frank. join us.

[hskwarrior]

the mongol and chinese are one family, frank. join us.

I am neither. Sorry, I cannot. Omerta.

[bawang]

then stop trying to pretend you are one.

[hskwarrior]

then stop trying to pretend you are one.

and how do i pretend to be one? I think you are talking more to yourself than me. you pretend to be more chinese than the real chinese. you funny....not too smart...but funny

Unlike you i see whats in the mirror. you are just jealous....you no look good in shorts.

[bawang]

when i look in the mirrror i see the green grass monk.

[TenTigers]

You might be mistaken Frank.
It turns out that there was this guy in a Canton brothel, and he requested two women.
One was named Ching, the other was named Ming.
He had his way with Ching first, and Ming started to feel neglected, and stated that since Ching was exhausted and now lay sweating on the floor, that he should let her cool off, while pleasuring Ming.
Sherman: "What did she say, Mr. Peabody?"
Peabody: "Simple, Sherman,
She told him,
"Fan Ching, Fuk Ming!"

[Scott R. Brown]

You might be mistaken Frank.
It turns out that there was this guy in a Canton brothel, and he requested two women.
One was named Ching, the other was named Ming.
He had his way with Ching first, and Ming started to feel neglected, and stated that since Ching was exhausted and now lay sweating on the floor, that he should let her cool off, while pleasuring Ming.
Sherman: "What did she say, Mr. Peabody?"
Peabody: "Simple, Sherman,
She told him,
"Fan Ching, Fuk Ming!"

On with the show this is iiiiiiiit! Da Da Daaaaaaa, Da Da Daaa, Da Da Da Da, Da Da Daaaaaaa!!!!!

I'm his new "self appointed" manager! PM me for bookings!:D

[bawang]

whats the difference between the green grass monk and jesus?

jesus is real.

[hskwarrior]

when i look in the mirrror i see the green grass monk.

See, he does exist!

[Scott R. Brown]

whats the difference between the green grass monk and jesus?

Jesus is real.

GOOONG!!!!!!:eek:

[hskwarrior]

whats the difference between the green grass monk and jesus?

jesus is real.

Of course you're not a heterosexual.

[bawang]

you live in san francisco and call me gay.

the ironing, please to find

[hskwarrior]

you live in san francisco and call me gay.


YES. I do live in SF. and i am calling you a Non Heterosexual. Whats the confusing part other than your gender issues?

[bawang]

you also claim to be in a gang that does not commit crimes, and hang out with childrens.

hung men day care lol

[hskwarrior]

you also claim to be in a gang that does not commit crimes, and hang out with childrens.

hung men day care lol

Which gang do i claim? and can you show me the thread where i claimed to be any kind of active gang member? I can show you where you that you claim to be a Ass hammer who likes to play with mens balls.

[David Jamieson]

I lol's a couple fo times already in this thread. yeesh! :p

[bawang]

Which gang do i claim?

hip hoop triads

this guy just admitted he is a fraud and was never in triads

[hskwarrior]

David.......Shhhhh....you're messing with my bawossang moment here bro....Shhhhh

[bawang]

and its not gay if you do it against white men against their will. its vengeance.

black people do it all the time and theyre not gay

[hskwarrior]

hip hoop triads

this guy just admitted he is a fraud and was never in triads

Ummmmm.....what? triads are things in the music world. what are you talking about? what gang?


and its not gay if you do it against white men against their will. its vengeance.

and you claim I act like some chinese person? WHITEY!

[hskwarrior]

Bawoosang......

WHAT GANG AM I CLAIMING? :confused:

[bawang]

the scooby doo gang

[hskwarrior]

the scooby doo gang

no thats the gang you got gang raped by.

[bawang]

you are doing it wrong

[hskwarrior]

you are doing it wrong

of course, YOU think EVERYONE does it wrong. LMAO

[bawang]

frank, lets be serious for a moment.

the difference between you and me is i admit the chinese rebels killed millions of innocent people, and raped hundreds of thousands of women, not even sparing little girls and grandmothers.

and im FUKING PROUD OF IT.

and thats why you will never understand the hongmen.

[hskwarrior]

rank, lets be serious for a moment.

the difference between you and me is i admit the chinese rebels killed millions of innocent people, and raped hundreds of thousands of women, not even sparing little girls and grandmothers.

and im FUKING PROUD OF IT.

sorry, i can never take you serious. you don't even take yourself serious. LOL

[bawang]

im proud of boxer rebels stripping fat white nuns naked, raping them, then slowly killing them, frank. can you say the same?

[hskwarrior]

im proud of boxer rebels stripping fat white nuns naked, raping them, then slowly killing them, frank. can you say the same?

Isn't it a great feeling to be proud of something? yes i can. THE SAME. See? i can :D

YAYYYYYEEEEEEE for MEEEEEEEEE

[bawang]

thats why you will never be part of the white lotus frank. never.

[hskwarrior]

thats why you will never be part of the white lotus frank. never.

true. but i do plan to drive one some day.

[bawang]

why is your martial art named after cabbage anyways?
what does buddha have to do with cabbage?

[hskwarrior]

why is your martial art named after cabbage anyways?

because what is going to kick yo ash? Charlie's Foot. what better name can you use?

For Hung Sing and Buk Sing, Cabbage was the secret word for Moolah, monies, denaro...Fedia...green backs....Cha Ching....

When we spend our monies our secret word for that was "overthrow the Ching"

[bawang]

and why does your salute mimick a farmer carrying two manure buckets?

they symbolize hung sing and buk sing?

[hskwarrior]

and why does your salute mimick a farmer carrying two manure buckets?

Why else? cause we carry Manure for fertilzer to grow Green Grass Buds

[bawang]

seriously speaking, when the rebels near my town were facing "godkiller" artillery division from the qing army, they refused help from hongmen and chose to die instead.

every rebellion in china refused you guys after the tai ping fiasco, and you guys missed the actual overthrowing of the qing government.

[hskwarrior]

every rebellion in china refused you guys, and you guys missed the actual overthrowing of the qing government.

so true. Its like when you don't have a car and you just got off of work and missed that FINAL bus for the night. You're left to walk alone....So alone....all by yourself....

BAWOSSANG....WALK WITH ME. WALK THIS WAY! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B_UYYPb-Gk)

[bawang]

whenever you guys joined a rebellion, the local people would rather die than side with you. no rebels wanted you.

"after i die, keep killing" - last words of dying 60 year old peasant woman during defence against the taiping rebels

[hskwarrior]

whenever you guys joined a rebellion, the local people would rather die than side with you. no rebels wanted you.

"after i die, keep killing" - last words of dying 60 year old peasant woman during defence against the taiping rebels

Your wisdom is the illumination of a dark room. pure awesomeness.

[bawang]

according to you your lodge is the one good triads that doesnt commit crime. you guys turned over a new leaf. u guys run daycare now.

u guys dont kidnap women, rape them then make them prostitutes anymore. u guys solve mystery like scooby doo. magical adventur

[hskwarrior]

according to you your lodge is the good triads that doesnt commit crime. they couldnt possibly be lying to you because they dont trust you.

there are no mooses in my lodge. we just don't have the room. its such a tiny space

[bawang]

your lodge seems to be the only one located in an underground parking lot

[hskwarrior]

your lodge seems to be the only one located in an underground parking lot

It was either that or hold meetings in some kids tree house. :eek:

[SPJ]

people are social or like to be in a group

bending together based on the same last name, from the same village--

--

for political cause, it is more vague or tough, since politics comes and goes like a wind.

--

"imagine"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJrwTgFt3Ek

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edlf-X6UkeM&feature=related

:)

[bawang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5RqDGLiDvo

[SPJ]

hard rock or beats give me a headache.

soft tune

soft rock is better for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKRzy2Gf_Aw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcg3IZPPyhc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw2Jz5i4iKs

:)

[David Jamieson]

In western version of hell, it is filled with people being noisy.
In eastern version of hell, it is empty and void of everything but you and the occasional demon come to torment you.

You'll never see a successful marriage of the cultures until you tear them both down from the bottom up. Cut the legs out from underneath and produce a new culture. Without ethnic idiosyncrasy, without pride in the unknown past, without knowledge of anything but that which they are within.

Only children may enter. :)

[bawang]

our lodge was very powerful

"was"


dgghfghf

[hskwarrior]

TOO MANY POWERFULS Bawang......the legacy continues.

[taai gihk yahn]

In western version of hell, it is filled with people being noisy.
In eastern version of hell, it is empty and void of everything but you and the occasional demon come to torment you.
ohhhh, I beg to differ mon frère

Cold Narakas
Arbuda – the "blister" Naraka. This is a dark, frozen plain surrounded by icy mountains and continually swept by blizzards. Inhabitants of this world arise fully grown and abide life-long naked and alone, while the cold raises blisters upon their bodies. The length of life in this Naraka is said to be the time it would take to empty a barrel of sesame seed if one only took out a single seed every hundred years.[citation needed]
Nirarbuda – the "burst blister" Naraka. This Naraka is even colder than the one above, and here the blisters burst open, leaving the beings' bodies covered with frozen blood and pus.[citation needed]
Aṭaṭa – the Naraka of shivering. Here the beings shiver in the cold, making an aṭ-aṭ-aṭ sound with their mouths.[citation needed]
Hahava – the Naraka of lamentation. Here the beings lament in the cold, going ha, ho in pain.[citation needed]
Huhuva – the Naraka of chattering teeth. Here the beings shiver as their teeth chatter, making the sound hu, hu.[citation needed]
Utpala – the "blue lotus" Naraka. Here the intense cold makes the skin turn blue like the color of an utpala waterlily.
Padma – the "lotus" Naraka. In this Naraka the blizzard cracks open the frozen skin leaving one raw and bloody.
Mahāpadma – the "great lotus" Naraka. Here the whole body cracks into pieces and the internal organs are exposed to the cold and they also crack.[citation needed]
Each lifetime in these Narakas is twenty times the length of the one before it.

Hot Narakas
Sañjīva – the "reviving" Naraka. In this Naraka the ground is made out of hot iron heated by an immense fire. Beings in this Naraka appear fully grown, already in a state of fear and misery. As soon as the being begins to fear being harmed by others, their fellows appear and attack each other with iron claws. Or else, the attendants of Yama appear and attack the being with many fiery weapons. As soon as the being experiences an unconsciousness like death, they are suddenly restored to full health and the attacks begin again. Other tortures experienced in this Naraka include having molten metal dropped upon them, being sliced into pieces, and suffering from the heat of the iron ground. Life in this Naraka is 1.62×1012[citation needed] years long. It is said to be 1000 yojanas beneath Jambudvīpa and 10,000 yojanas in each direction.
Kālasūtra – the "black thread" Naraka. Here, in addition to the torments mentioned above, black lines are drawn upon the body, and Yama's servants cut the beings upon the lines with fiery saws and sharp axes. Life in this Naraka is 1.296×1013 years long.
Saṃghāta – the "crushing" Naraka. This Naraka is also upon a ground of hot iron, but is surrounded by huge masses of rock that smash together and crush the beings to a bloody jelly. When the rocks move apart again, life is restored to the being and the process starts again. Life in this Naraka is 1.0368×1014 years long.
Raurava – the "screaming" Naraka. Here beings run wildly about, looking for refuge from the burning ground. When they find an apparent shelter, they are locked inside it as it blazes around them, while they scream inside. Life in this Naraka is 8.2944×1014 years long.
Mahāraurava – the "piercing" Naraka. Punishment in here are for people who maintain their own body by hurting others. In this hell, ruru animals known as kravyāda torment them and eat their flesh. Life in this Naraka is 6.63552×1015 years long.
Tapana – the "heating" Naraka. Here Yama's servants impale the beings on a fiery spear until flames issue from their noses and mouths. Life in this Naraka is 5.308416×1016 years long.
Pratāpana – the "great heating" Naraka. The tortures here are similar to the Tapana Naraka, but the beings are pierced more bloodily with a trident. Life in this Naraka is 4.2467328×1017 years long. It is also said to last for the length of half an antarakalpa.
Avīci – the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×1018 years long. It is also said to last for the length of an antarakalpa.

sounds pretty noisy (not to mention busy) to me! (man, Dante's got nothing on the Buddhists...)

[YouKnowWho]

In western version of hell, ...In eastern version of hell, ...

Since I have not heard any American ever saw Chinese ghost, or any Chinese ever saw American ghost. I wonder if it's possible for a Chinese to go to western hell, or an American to go to eastern hell.

[TenTigers]

I saw Chinese ghosts in China, and in Chinatown.
And of course the one who follows me around and teaches me th3 d3adly in my dreams...but that's another story...

[Lucas]

I saw Chinese ghosts in China, and in Chinatown.
And of course the one who follows me around and teaches me th3 d3adly in my dreams...but that's another story...

that's just the taoverse diety :eek::eek:

[IronWeasel]

"was"


dgghfghf



Maximum ownage, with the fewest letters...

[TenTigers]

Tapana – the "heating" Naraka. Here Yama's servants impale the beings on a fiery spear until flames issue from their noses and mouths. Life in this Naraka is 5.308416×1016 years long.


Tapana? I thought that was like a Spanish dim-sum...
hmmmm..... actually, what you described really does sound kinda tasty.

[PalmStriker]

i havent frowned on any chinese. i frown on insecure assimilated viets who insist to be the real chinese.

everything cantonese is a twisted caricature of the real china. including kung fu.

white people like to keep it that way because they are not intimidated by cantos. ching chong ching chong danny devito ching chong chong. hey, I think maybe bawang's got something there.:)

[CFT]

Tapana? I thought that was like a Spanish dim-sum...
hmmmm..... actually, what you described really does sound kinda tasty.Wrong country. You're thinking of teppanyaki.

[David Jamieson]

ohhhh, I beg to differ mon frère


Not many buddhists in commie lands though... :-p
Generally, diyu has many ideas associated with it, inclusions of buddhist and taoist ideas of hell and so on and so forth.

I was musing on something I was "told" as opposed to what I knew about religious studies. which would indicate that Taoists never really had much to say about hell, and Confucians didn't think there was a hell at all. The Buddhist version always seemed weird to me in context to the teachings of buddhism. I mean, here we have a guy who warns against illusions and then we have this story of a multi leveled hell filled with all sorts of frightening stuff. It...doesn't...make...sense...

Also,

Danté spent too much time focusing on two things:

1) Beatrice. Pure soul, somehow becomes queen of hell, but because of love returns to pureness. wtf? So physical love is superior to gods love?

2) The murder of the Muslims. Could have just gotten to the point about how that is the real sin and the real betrayal of god, humanity and by proxy, his love for Beatrice.

Inferno is messed up. But it does explore morality and secular existence...so 2 points for that. lol Also, it is one of the 2 major storylines for virtually all movies ever made. :)

[SPJ]

this life vs after life

1. buddhist

this life has sufferring, sickness, death, etc. life is like a bitter sea with no borders.

there is this extreme happy land in the west.

do good deeds many and many life times, one may go to the land of ni var na.

on the hand, there are also many levels of hell awaiting people that did bad stuff.

save people lives would promote you

destroy other life forms would demote you

2. taoist

go with the flow, follow the rhythm of nature--

learn the way of the nature and go with it.

heaven and hell are all in this life.

time to exist, time to suffer, time to be happy, time to be sad and time to perish.

all in good or due time.

3. christian

there is this great love from god and salvation

--

:)

[wenshu]

Not many buddhists in commie lands though... :-p


I guess 100 million is "not many".


I always thought this looked like fun.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/bosch.jpg

You have got to admit this looks pretty bad ass.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_k_4AQYPX574/S96x2Y_wt8I/AAAAAAAAAEs/VxteY68gKVM/s1600/Paradise_Lost.jpg

[David Jamieson]

I guess 100 million is "not many".



100 million practicing buddhists in China?

really?

[TenTigers]

There are some really good depictions of h3ll I know of,
but I would have to access my ex's facebook page, and I have no intention of friending her....

[lkfmdc]

There are some really good depictions of h3ll I know of,
but I would have to access my ex's facebook page, and I have no intention of friending her....

be sure to tip your waitress! Rik will be here all week!

[wenshu]

really?

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/9681/msp95719g022ahagd3i7440.gif
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=china+religion

[lkfmdc]

Was pretty sure there were a lot more Islamic faith in China.....

[wenshu]

Was pretty sure there were a lot more Islamic faith in China.....

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2010/148863.htm

According to the State Administration for Religious Affairs (SARA), there are more than 21 million Muslims in the country. Independent estimates range as high as 50 million or more.

They don't elaborate on what the sources are for the independent estimates.

[lkfmdc]

They don't elaborate on what the sources are for the independent estimates.

do you think there might be a political reason the Chinese government wants to low ball the figure on how many Muslims are in the country? :rolleyes:

[wenshu]

Without a doubt.

They lowball the buddhists too, I've seen estimates closer to 200 million.

[lkfmdc]

I don't trust Chinese
I don't trust communists
I really don't trust Chinese communists :p :D

[Lucas]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg

[Razaunida]

Religious classification in China is pretty much BS.

Everyone is Chinese. This means that by default they are part Daoist/Buddhists. Many people say they are not religious, yet burn money for anscestors, go to a fortune teller to read their bazi and meditate or go to a temple when they are stressed.

Many are "atheists" yet claim there morality comes from family education. Where did this education come from? The temple. Westerners think more of religious lines as life or death, right and wrong, Chinese view them as schools of thought.

[LSWCTN1]

lets spell it out

"tai ji kuen"
"ping ji kuen"
"ting ji kuen"
"gok ji kuen"

"tai ping tin gok". the heavenly kingdom of jesus.

the chan family said in chinese interview chan heung was the chief instructor for the heavenly kingdom and personally instructed the southern heavenly king.

...or are you a manchu lover?

funnilyn enough, i saw evidence to back this up yesterday


This means that the Lo’s were serious practitioners in CLF to begin with, and even when GM Lo Chiu Woon was teaching in Hong Kong, his curriculum for the double sabre was “ Double Cross Sabre” (Cross as in Holy Cross in the Catholic/ Christian religion), and this was from CLF, at least what I was told when I visited one of Lo’s student’s class, a Sifu Kwok Chuen who was teaching an SWC class at that time

here
http://www.shaolinwengchun.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=143&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=12

The CLF comes from Har Pik Chi

[omarthefish]

Without a doubt.

They lowball the buddhists too, I've seen estimates closer to 200 million.

200 million only amounts to about 1.5% of the entire population. That sounds about right when you consider that the CIA factbook on China places Daoist, Christian and Buddhist combined at 3-4%.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html

Religions:
Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order.
Daoist (Taoist), Buddhist, Christian 3%-4%, Muslim 1%-2%
note: officially atheist (2002 est.)

So Darth is right in that, per capita, there really aren't that many Buddhists. People just tend to forget how many **** people there are out there. 5% of 1.3 billion is still 650 million religious types out there.

Note that I not taking my figures from Chinese sources. CIA factbook all the way.

[wenshu]

200 million only amounts to about 1.5% of the entire population. That sounds about right when you consider that the CIA factbook on China places Daoist, Christian and Buddhist combined at 3-4%.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html


So Darth is right in that, per capita, there really aren't that many Buddhists. People just tend to forget how many **** people there are out there. 5% of 1.3 billion is still 650 million religious types out there.

Note that I not taking my figures from Chinese sources. CIA factbook all the way.

Your point is?

Yes, relatively speaking, it is only a small fraction of the total population. I don't think anyone was under any misapprehension about that, but thanks for correcting it anyway.

200 million is still a sh*t load of people. Furthermore it accounts for, oh, about half of the percentage of total buddhists worldwide.

You realize that part of the CIA factbook figures most likely come from SARA right? The state dept.'s do.

Oh noes! PRC propaganda!

[bawang]

Religious classification in China is pretty much BS.

Everyone is Chinese. This means that by default they are part Daoist/Buddhists. Many people say they are not religious, yet burn money for anscestors, go to a fortune teller to read their bazi and meditate or go to a temple when they are stressed.

i follow the bear

he is strong

[omarthefish]

Your point is?
No point in particular. Just wanted to interject some figures that weren't pulled out of people's hindparts. Yes, 200 million is a lot and yet, does not really contradict the stereotype of China as a homeland of godless atheists. ie. you were right about the approximate numbers and David was right about the general big picture of Buddhism in China. Depends on how you look at it.


You realize that part of the CIA factbook figures most likely come from SARA right? The state dept.'s do.

No, I didn't realize that. I also don't know what SARA is. I just picked the CIA cite because I don't feel it is particularly politically motivated, at least not in terms of typical left/right wing American politics and their website is efficiently organized when you want to look up this sort of info. I trust it better than Wikipedia or whatever random site google turns up for me. ;)

So what is SARA?

[David Jamieson]

"chinese universism" is the equivalent of new age hippy.

IE: it borrows from several religio-philosophies and you mix and match until you have a belief system you're comfortable with. :rolleyes:

China is officially godless and doesn't view Buddhism as a religion but it (Buddhism) is and in fact, there is even some indication in the Sutras that Buddha was indeed an agent or representative of a universal deity.

In the Lotus Sutra, Buddha proclaims himself the father of men and that all men are his children. Remind you of anyone? :)

I think that every now and then, we all need a figure to represent the best aspects of ourselves. Otherwise we drown in the worst aspects of ourselves.

We could use another ascended master among us, maybe even a few. It's been a long drop so far.

[Northwind]

...snip...
in fact, there is even some indication in the Sutras that Buddha was indeed an agent or representative of a universal deity.

...snip...

In the Lotus Sutra, Buddha proclaims himself the father of men and that all men are his children. Remind you of anyone? :)
...snip...


He also said, very directly, not to worship him, any part of his body, or anything directly related to him; that he was simply sharing what worked for him...

Context - it's important.

[SimonM]

He also said, very directly, not to worship him, any part of his body, or anything directly related to him; that he was simply sharing what worked for him...

Context - it's important.

There is also the very important question of provenance with sutras. Which actually record things he actually said?

[wenshu]

No point in particular. Just wanted to interject some figures that weren't pulled out of people's hindparts. Yes, 200 million is a lot and yet, does not really contradict the stereotype of China as a homeland of godless atheists. ie. you were right about the approximate numbers and David was right about the general big picture of Buddhism in China. Depends on how you look at it.



No, I didn't realize that. I also don't know what SARA is. I just picked the CIA cite because I don't feel it is particularly politically motivated, at least not in terms of typical left/right wing American politics and their website is efficiently organized when you want to look up this sort of info. I trust it better than Wikipedia or whatever random site google turns up for me. ;)

So what is SARA?

Here is some wikipedia for ya!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Administration_for_Religious_Affairs

<digression>
People like to bash wikipedia like they like to bash the PRC; it's an easy target, no one is likely to challenge you and it makes everyone feel intellectually and morally superior.

In fact, Wikipedia's entries on science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson#Experimental_search) have been found to contain to no more inaccuracies than Encyclopedia Britannica.http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7070/full/438900a.html

Furthermore it has the added benefit of being able to keep up with current developments in real time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Spanish_protests). It just requires critical thinking skills and the investigation of source information.

Nothing against the CIA fact book mind you.
</digression>

Is atheism only narrowly defined as the rejection of monotheism? Would you consider ancestor worship a form of atheism? What about worship of the state?

[wenshu]

"chinese universism" is the equivalent of new age hippy.

IE: it borrows from several religio-philosophies and you mix and match until you have a belief system you're comfortable with. :rolleyes:

It's a couple of thousand years old actually.



China is officially godless and doesn't view Buddhism as a religion but it (Buddhism) is and in fact, there is even some indication in the Sutras that Buddha was indeed an agent or representative of a universal deity.

Technically the State/Party itself is God.

Considering that Buddhism is under the purview of the State Administration for Religious Affairs indicates that they do in fact view Buddhism as a religion.

Please to elaborate upon the Sutras that indicate that Shi Jia Mo Ni Fo was an agent of a universal deity. . .


" There are priests & contemplatives who hold this teaching, hold this view: 'Whatever a person experiences — pleasant, painful, or neither pleasant nor painful — that is all caused by a supreme being's act of creation.' There are priests & contemplatives who hold this teaching, hold this view: 'Whatever a person experiences — pleasant, painful, or neither pleasant nor painful — that is all without cause & without condition.' . . .

. . .
"Having approached the priests & contemplatives who hold that... 'Whatever a person experiences... is all caused by a supreme being's act of creation,' I said to them: 'Is it true that you hold that... "Whatever a person experiences... is all caused by a supreme being's act of creation?"' Thus asked by me, they admitted, 'Yes.' Then I said to them, 'Then in that case, a person is a killer of living beings because of a supreme being's act of creation. A person is a thief... unchaste... a liar... a divisive speaker... a harsh speaker... an idle chatterer... greedy... malicious... a holder of wrong views because of a supreme being's act of creation.' When one falls back on creation by a supreme being as being essential, monks, there is no desire, no effort [at the thought], 'This should be done. This shouldn't be done.' When one can't pin down as a truth or reality what should & shouldn't be done, one dwells bewildered & unprotected. One cannot righteously refer to oneself as a contemplative. This was my second righteous refutation of those priests & contemplatives who hold to such teachings, such views.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.061.than.html

[SimonM]

I think you would be hard pressed to find many modern Chinese people in China who worship the state.

Just saying.

[SPJ]

buddhism is always sponsored by the state/imperial court/government.

the most famous episode would be in tang dynasty

there was always the "ministering to the state temple" or xiang guo si.

confucian idea is good for family and social orders of feudalism.

however buddhism has the soul of china on so many levels

from top to the bottom

even the empress ci xi called herself bodhisavatt or pu sa.

---

ming dynasty restored wu dang daoist villages on a grand scale

but the rest of the dynasties always supported buddhism.

--

no comment on CPC or CCP.

:D

[bawang]

buddhism isnt the heart of china. chinese peasants hate buddhist monks.

[SPJ]

and yet you many find temples everywhere

:)

[SimonM]

Which peasants? I knew quite a few people who might be described as peasants in China and none of them seemed to have beef with monks. Is this perhaps a local issue somewhere?

[bawang]

people are romantisizing it now. in the past peasants were heavily taxed to support the temples

in the iliterate peasants eye theyre just bald weirdos who refuse to have children and chanted gibberish. it built up rage resulted in the buddhist suppression after communist takeover

[Northwind]

There is also the very important question of provenance with sutras. Which actually record things he actually said?

Why is this question so very important?
If you know the history of the councils, then you already know the answer to your second question. If not, Google. Regardless, what's your point?

[wenshu]

I think you would be hard pressed to find many modern Chinese people in China who worship the state.

Just saying.

Money is the only thing people worship.

[bawang]

its not a atheist paradise because the subconscious moral values from christianity are not there.

communism mistook christian charity for human nature

[wenshu]

buddhism is always sponsored by the state/imperial court/government.

the most famous episode would be in tang dynasty

there was always the "ministering to the state temple" or xiang guo si.

confucian idea is good for family and social orders of feudalism.

however buddhism has the soul of china on so many levels

from top to the bottom

even the empress ci xi called herself bodhisavatt or pu sa.

---

ming dynasty restored wu dang daoist villages on a grand scale

but the rest of the dynasties always supported buddhism.

--

no comment on CPC or CCP.

:D

Dude. Wuzong of Tang tried to completely purge and destroy Buddhism.

[bawang]

he had perfectly good reason to do so. almost 10% of the entire country were monks in tax exempt temples.

[SimonM]

its not a atheist paradise because the subconscious moral values from christianity are not there.

communism mistook christian charity for human nature


As a moral atheist I'd challenge that. Especially in light of the significance of Weber on conflict theory (the theoretical underpinning of communism) and his work that effectively drove a stake into the heart of the concept of "Christian charity" as part of the religious framework of Christianity as practised outside of radical reform and liberation theology circles.

Collectivism is far older than Christianity.


Money is the only thing people worship.

This is sadly increasingly true.

[wenshu]

I can't rightly speak as to whether or not he was justified.

I was just trying to point out how ridiculous it is to say that Buddhism has always enjoyed Chinese imperial patronage.

[bawang]

As a moral atheist I'd challenge that. Especially in light of the significance of Weber on conflict theory (the theoretical underpinning of communism) and his work that effectively drove a stake into the heart of the concept of "Christian charity" as part of the religious framework of Christianity as practised outside of radical reform and liberation theology circles.



the american group consciousness is very christian. when the towers fell it came out to the surface for everybody to see.

in a few decades when european identity is eroded away in america you will suddenly find a nation of people without mercy or compassion just like atheist china today.


I can't rightly speak as to whether or not he was justified.



i can.

[omarthefish]

Here is some wikipedia for ya!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Administration_for_Religious_Affairs

<digression>
People like to bash wikipedia like they like to bash the PRC; it's an easy target, no one is likely to challenge you and it makes everyone feel intellectually and morally superior.

In fact, Wikipedia's entries on science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson#Experimental_search) have been found to contain to no more inaccuracies than Encyclopedia Britannica.http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7070/full/438900a.html

Furthermore it has the added benefit of being able to keep up with current developments in real time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Spanish_protests). It just requires critical thinking skills and the investigation of source information.

Nothing against the CIA fact book mind you.
</digression>
I'm not bashing Wikipedia at all. Like you said, for entries on science it's pretty **** good. Good for history too IMO. Kind of sucks monkey balls for martial arts. Depends on the topic and honestly, Encyclopedia Britannica is not exactly the highest standard in the world for many things. It's a pretty **** good starting point for a high school essay back in the 80's or before but it's not exactly like you are gonna see any serious articles in any serious academic journals citing it. :o



Is atheism only narrowly defined as the rejection of monotheism?

That would be an absurd claim. Atheism is, by definition, the rejection of theism. Mono or poly is irrelevant.


Would you consider ancestor worship a form of atheism? What about worship of the state?
No. It could be but, in keeping with the definition laid out just now, worship of the state or of ancestors can only be considered atheism if it is accompanied by the conviction that there is nod god or gods. If you worship god and the state, ancestors, money or dirty socks....as long as "god" is included in the list, it's not atheism. Heck, you don't even have to worship god for it to not be atheism. You just have to accept the possibility that, even if completely unproveable, god or gods might exist and you have crossed over from Atheism into agnositicism.

You are only an Atheist if you firmly believe that god/gods does not exist.

[wenshu]

Especially in light of the significance of Weber on conflict theory (the theoretical underpinning of communism)

The theoretical underpinning is Dialectical Materialism. Hegel, not Weber.

Edit; nevermind, I misread your post.

I think you meant that Weber was opposed to it. . .



This is sadly increasingly true.

What do you mean increasingly?

[bawang]

atheism has always existed in china. in 400 AD there was a court official who wrote an anti religion thesis.

the difference is atheism used to be in harmony with chinese culture. today it is an agent of communism and american hedonism.

[SimonM]

the american group consciousness is very christian. when the towers fell it came out to the surface for everybody to see.


It isn't generally that charitable though. Hell they're talking about cutting medicare down there! It doesn't get much more uncharitable than clawing back seniors pensions.

[omarthefish]

the american group consciousness is very christian. when the towers fell it came out to the surface for everybody to see.

Same thing happened in China after the Sichuan earthquake a couple years back.