Wing chun vids share please take 2

[jimhalliwell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3y87ZK-6X4

Jim

[Ali. R]

This guys is saying to stay in the pocket and don’t deal with your opponent unnecessary necessities’, kinda remind me of this quote from the movie ‘The Trial of Billy Jack’.

Prosecuting attorney: Do you expect us to believe that you have absolutely no fear of the death penalty.

Billy Jack: I have a lot of fear, but I have a lot more respect. Long ago, I learned that he's my constant companion. He eats with me, he walks we me, and he even sleeps with me.

Prosecuting attorney: (not understanding him) I'm sorry, I must have missed something back there. Who is this faithful companion of your?

Billy Jack: Death.

Take care,

[k gledhill]

Nothing like wsl pb Ving Tsun fighting. All based on touching, the position of the arms are parallel, contradicting our basic striking ideas. Awful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3y87ZK-6X4

[jimhalliwell]

Nothing like wsl pb Ving Tsun fighting. All based on touching, the position of the arms are parallel, contradicting our basic striking ideas. Awful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3y87ZK-6X4

Yes your spot on what worries me also is his centre totally unprotected.

Jim

[Ali. R]

Wow, I miss that; but technically we would never know if he could shut down his centerline unless we touch his hands in person. I sometimes keep my centerline open just to draw an attack to counter on.

It’s very hard for me to post a clip of someone and then trash it; I’m just not that good.

Tack care,

[jimhalliwell]

Wow, I miss that; but technically we would never know if he could shut down his centerline unless we touch his hands in person. I sometimes keep my centerline open just to draw an attack to counter on.

It’s very hard for me to post a clip of someone and then trash it; I’m just not that good.

Tack care,

For me when someone rolls with their arms generally open it tells you alot either they train with people with no centre and can attack correctly or like yourself they are just not that good!

Jim

[Ali. R]

You’re right I’m not that good, but could you and no one else just show us all how it’s really done; it would be nice if we have an example on the right way of doing things.

I’m sure you could help us all out.;)

Friend,

[jimhalliwell]

You’re right I’m not that good, but could you and no one else just show us all how it’s really done; it would be nice if we have an example on the right way of doing things.

I’m sure you could help us all out.;)

Friend,


sure ill try and do on this week mate

Jim

[anerlich]

Nothing like wsl pb Ving Tsun fighting. All based on touching, the position of the arms are parallel, contradicting our basic striking ideas. Awful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3y87ZK-6X4

Didn't see any fighting there or any of your other vids. Lots of competition chi sao, though.

[GlennR]

Nothing like wsl pb Ving Tsun fighting. All based on touching, the position of the arms are parallel, contradicting our basic striking ideas. Awful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3y87ZK-6X4

So are you and Jim the self-appointed WC chi-sao police now??

Actually, even better, why not become super heroe's!

Wearing flowing capes ,with WSL printed across them, and masks in the likeness of Philip Bayer ,you could rid the world of the evils of poor chi-sao!!!

I, for one, will feel safer knowing you guys are out there

[k gledhill]

Didn't see any fighting there or any of your other vids. Lots of competition chi sao, though.

ignore list coming up ;)

[k gledhill]

So are you and Jim the self-appointed WC chi-sao police now??

Actually, even better, why not become super heroe's!

Wearing flowing capes ,with WSL printed across them, and masks in the likeness of Philip Bayer ,you could rid the world of the evils of poor chi-sao!!!

I, for one, will feel safer knowing you guys are out there


You approve of the clip ? What is your technical input besides , becoming the "nutugging avenger" ?

[anerlich]

ignore list coming up

Promises, promises.


becoming the "nutugging avenger"

AS opposed to, say, the PB nuthugging comp chi sao avenger?

[anerlich]

So are you and Jim the self-appointed WC chi-sao police now??

You left out Graham

[GlennR]

You approve of the clip ? What is your technical input besides , becoming the "nutugging avenger" ?

To be honest, i only had a quick glance over it.

Regarding a technical chat, i started a conversation with Jim ,regarding the Jim Fung clip ,about the difference in lineages and what they are trying to achieve....

He didnt seem that interested so i figure he's of the opinion that his way is the best, and only, way. Fair enough

Look, you guys think your way is THE way, and putting up random clips from youtube which you then deride deserves what you get.... the pi55 taken out of you.

[k gledhill]

To be honest, i only had a quick glance over it.

Regarding a technical chat, i started a conversation with Jim ,regarding the Jim Fung clip ,about the difference in lineages and what they are trying to achieve....

He didnt seem that interested so i figure he's of the opinion that his way is the best, and only, way. Fair enough

Look, you guys think your way is THE way, and putting up random clips from youtube which you then deride deserves what you get.... the pi55 taken out of you.

look, then let us know, not interested in ''nuthugger avengers" views.

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/eJDTgYDWnlM some seung ma toi ma

[GlennR]

look, then let us know, not interested in ''nuthugger avengers" views.

And whos nuts exactly would i be hugging????

[Badnews]

Here's a contribution for worst chi sao of the year award...
the claim is as follows

"It's complicated to explain to u (long story). I'll put it in simple way: What you're seeing now, is the kind of techniques that you would probably see during the first 100 years when Wing Chun was created & compiled by the founders. If the founders were here seeing the Wing Chun in the marketplace, they would probably ask you 'what are these guys doing?' too. Btw, there is Bong Sau, it's just that they are too fast & subtle to notice. You need to pause the video rapidly to see their actions."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLgln71N9_g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbtWCiMUVCs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSYOqFiNc2g

the whole channel is a real doozy....oh and they do teach by correspondence if you are interested :D

[LFJ]

Argh, it hurts... Even Ali's chi-sau is a little better! A little.

[k gledhill]

Here's a contribution for worst chi sao of the year award...
the claim is as follows

"It's complicated to explain to u (long story). I'll put it in simple way: What you're seeing now, is the kind of techniques that you would probably see during the first 100 years when Wing Chun was created & compiled by the founders. If the founders were here seeing the Wing Chun in the marketplace, they would probably ask you 'what are these guys doing?' too. Btw, there is Bong Sau, it's just that they are too fast & subtle to notice. You need to pause the video rapidly to see their actions."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLgln71N9_g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbtWCiMUVCs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSYOqFiNc2g

the whole channel is a real doozy....oh and they do teach by correspondence if you are interested :D

The last clip just made me laugh out loud, thank you.

[Badnews]

If that one made you laugh, try these...thing is they are throwing out challenges to people as well it seems.

"Punch dissolves punch"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giBz-C7o2oc


Free Spar 2: Yong Chun Quan versus Mixed Art (Boxing + Muay Thai)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG_coNgflgk

It's a beautiful thing....

[JPinAZ]

http://youtu.be/eJDTgYDWnlM some seung ma toi ma

I never did understand this double hop runaway while being pressed drill. To me, this trains some very bad habits and will could lead to they guy hopping around getting overrun and surely losing any fwd intent/energy he might have had toward his opponent.

I can understand that if your space/structure is being collapsed, you may have to take a SINGLE step to regain your structure - but allowing someone to shove you around while double hopping backwards doesn't make much sense.
If someone is pressing you and you haven't your lost your structure (as seen in the clip), most decent WC players should be able absorb or redirect the energy without too much issue (at least that's what we train for) - seems to be a lot more efficient to me than allowing yourself to get pushed around..

[LFJ]

The teui-ma is just that, a single step and change of the line. In the drill you may have the seung-ma partner continue to drive forward with the taan-sau while you drill the step and angle two or more times. Although in application you will be looking to strike right away off the new line from the first step.

[jimhalliwell]

So are you and Jim the self-appointed WC chi-sao police now??

Actually, even better, why not become super heroe's!

Wearing flowing capes ,with WSL printed across them, and masks in the likeness of Philip Bayer ,you could rid the world of the evils of poor chi-sao!!!

I, for one, will feel safer knowing you guys are out there


Glenn (hugger whatever your name is)

Im not putting myself up as a wing chun police man, I'm just really frustrated by the downward spiral in the practical standard of wing chun / ving tsun generally. Wing Chun is a fighting system ie of a practical nature and due to the drop in standard of its quality has become a joke to the likes of the mma brigade. After 30 years of training I think i am able at least as much as you to make an educated guess after looking at a demo video on youtube as to the practical quality of the wing chun im seeing. Now I have studied 5 lineages 3 to completion Yip chuns Leung tings and wong shun leungs for me the wsl system works best (for me) yet still in this system i only really rate a few people the others to me are no good either too much theory not enough practicality! Now i have touched hands with PB and yes hes excellent example of Ving tsun and really is light years ahead of most on youtube and everywhere else come to that, but for me without doubt the best example of wsl ving tsun is from barry lee (imo) and imo the wsl system is way ahead on the practicality scale of any other Wing Chun linage around.

cheers Jim

[LFJ]

imo the wsl system is way ahead on the practicality scale of any other Wing Chun linage around.

Without meaning to bash other methods, I have to agree.

[jimhalliwell]

Without meaning to bash other methods, I have to agree.

To back my words up in a friendly way anyone who would like to try my interpretation of the wsl method for a free one on one session is welcome to call me 07912872821 i live near rochdale North west UK.I then at least can show you the differences without you paying for it.I at least back up what i say.

Jim.

[LFJ]

Um, thanks for the invite, but I said I agree. I'm with you on WSLVT. :cool:

[jimhalliwell]

Um, thanks for the invite, but I said I agree. I'm with you on WSLVT. :cool:


Sorry i quoted you actually meant anyone else:)

Cheers

Jim

[wingchunIan]

Glenn (hugger whatever your name is)

Im not putting myself up as a wing chun police man, I'm just really frustrated by the downward spiral in the practical standard of wing chun / ving tsun generally. Wing Chun is a fighting system ie of a practical nature and due to the drop in standard of its quality has become a joke to the likes of the mma brigade. After 30 years of training I think i am able at least as much as you to make an educated guess after looking at a demo video on youtube as to the practical quality of the wing chun im seeing. Now I have studied 5 lineages 3 to completion Yip chuns Leung tings and wong shun leungs for me the wsl system works best (for me) yet still in this system i only really rate a few people the others to me are no good either too much theory not enough practicality! Now i have touched hands with PB and yes hes excellent example of Ving tsun and really is light years ahead of most on youtube and everywhere else come to that, but for me without doubt the best example of wsl ving tsun is from barry lee (imo) and imo the wsl system is way ahead on the practicality scale of any other Wing Chun linage around.

cheers Jim
Hi Jim, who did you learn from in the Ip Chun lineage? as you say about WSL lineage not everyone is the same / has the same approach even within a lineage so it would be interesting to hear.

[jimhalliwell]

Hi Jim, who did you learn from in the Ip Chun lineage? as you say about WSL lineage not everyone is the same / has the same approach even within a lineage so it would be interesting to hear.


many and various (in the yip chun lineage) what im saying in the overall picture is that in my experience taking into account that different people have different and varying skill sets the wsl system is the most practical for me.Put it another way name a Yip chun top student that would stand up to chi sau with PB for example and i may see a pig that flys, and yes i know chi sau is an exercise but you know when you can better someone at it!

cheers Jim

[Ali. R]

See, what it all boils down to is good form, and that’s with any wing chun family, for example. I’m a hardcore outdoors man fishing, deer, rabbit, and whatever I can track and hunt.

I went deer hunting during bow season for my first time years ago and a buck ran right pass me, so close that I could actually feel the wind from his stride, if he would have hit me it was a very good chance it could have killed me. I guess I was standing in a deer trail or something. If I would have hit him, I knew I wouldn’t of kill him because I didn’t have that kind of shot, Just wanted to spill blood, so I could track him down and finish the kill.

As it was running away from me, I tried to take a shot and had him in my sight, but; when I released the 80lb compound bow it slapped against my forearm so hard that I had to go back to the camp for the rest of the trip, because I couldn’t open my hand for almost a week.

What I’m saying is, if my form wasn’t so bad while being in such a hurry, none of that would’ve happen. The more one can hold structure from a stance point of view and keep form while under pressure, the sweeter the outcome would be. The key is; try not to deviate. But now I shoot a 150lb crossbow.

[k gledhill]

I never did understand this double hop runaway while being pressed drill. To me, this trains some very bad habits and will could lead to they guy hopping around getting overrun and surely losing any fwd intent/energy he might have had toward his opponent.

I can understand that if your space/structure is being collapsed, you may have to take a SINGLE step to regain your structure - but allowing someone to shove you around while double hopping backwards doesn't make much sense.
If someone is pressing you and you haven't your lost your structure (as seen in the clip), most decent WC players should be able absorb or redirect the energy without too much issue (at least that's what we train for) - seems to be a lot more efficient to me than allowing yourself to get pushed around..


The hop is not intentional, should be like an "air hockey" puck floating around for better balance. The "DRILL" is to work the 5 patterns of footwork. Done in chi sao it creates intuitive foot movement relative to stimulus from any attack, conditioning drills. There are errors made in foot movement alone that can be taken advantage of easily in fighting.
I have used this in fighting a lot. An attack charge is delivered, but how good is it ? A lot of times a guy would grab my leading arm and start pushing me, as the drill. Due to the inherent balance control in the drill, I never lost balance but easily countered over zealous entry by angling to their positions and energy pulses. Many fights I had simply required a juen ma and punch or simple seung ma ~ toi ma distance management. But if a guy did bull rush me, it worked really well.

[GlennR]

Glenn (hugger whatever your name is)

Its Glenn Richards, to be exact Jim.


Im not putting myself up as a wing chun police man, I'm just really frustrated by the downward spiral in the practical standard of wing chun / ving tsun generally. Wing Chun is a fighting system ie of a practical nature and due to the drop in standard of its quality has become a joke to the likes of the mma brigade.

Id agree with you there Jim , but id also mention the spiral upwards in the standard of mma in the last 30 years as well.
Why's one going up and one going back?


After 30 years of training I think i am able at least as much as you to make an educated guess after looking at a demo video on youtube as to the practical quality of the wing chun im seeing. Now I have studied 5 lineages 3 to completion Yip chuns Leung tings and wong shun leungs for me the wsl system works best (for me) yet still in this system i only really rate a few people the others to me are no good either too much theory not enough practicality!

Sure, id agree with your ability to judge it via youtube as well, i just dpnt get dragging a clip onto the forum just to slag it of.


Now i have touched hands with PB and yes hes excellent example of Ving tsun and really is light years ahead of most on youtube and everywhere else come to that, but for me without doubt the best example of wsl ving tsun is from barry lee (imo) and imo the wsl system is way ahead on the practicality scale of any other Wing Chun linage around.

Well its Barry's guys here in australia ive been exposed to. I was good mates with Bill Dowding in particular (he is in china) and did a lot of training with them so i have a pretty good take on what they do. Incidentally, i think he's back now??
Are they good? Sure.
Are they miles ahead of anyone else? No, i dont think so.

But maybe the general standard of WC in Australia is higher, who knows.

We are a practical bunch down here after all ;)

Regards
GlennR

[Badnews]

The last clip just made me laugh out loud, thank you.


Defending the actions of this clip kevin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSYOqFiNc2g ...the guy writes ...

"Bad? lol, u are comparing this with the Wing Chun that you commonly see? What if I told you this Tan Sau & Punch could destroy a few lineages of Wing Chun in the market? What I mean is, by using this Tan Da, during Chi Sao, we could jam a few lineages of WC, MT, Boxing, Streetfight, etc. Would that still consider as 'bad'? I will be replying another comment on another video, you might wanna look that up."

I thought drugs were illegal in Singapore...seems like someone has been hitting the crack pipe abit hard..seriously entertaining stuff

[wingchunIan]

many and various (in the yip chun lineage) what im saying in the overall picture is that in my experience taking into account that different people have different and varying skill sets the wsl system is the most practical for me.Put it another way name a Yip chun top student that would stand up to chi sau with PB for example and i may see a pig that flys, and yes i know chi sau is an exercise but you know when you can better someone at it!

cheers Jim

There are at least four or five of Ip Chun's students that I have personally met either in the UK or HK that in my opinion would more than "stand up" to chi sau with PB (this is obviously my opinion and I will decline to name them to avoid any silly politics). In terms of the "many and various" sifus that you've trained with in the Ip Chun lineage there aren't that many in the UK so i'd be genuinely interested to hear who (if you'd rather not say publicly I'd love to hear via PM).

[jimhalliwell]

There are at least four or five of Ip Chun's students that I have personally met either in the UK or HK that in my opinion would more than "stand up" to chi sau with PB (this is obviously my opinion and I will decline to name them to avoid any silly politics). In terms of the "many and various" sifus that you've trained with in the Ip Chun lineage there aren't that many in the UK so i'd be genuinely interested to hear who (if you'd rather not say publicly I'd love to hear via PM).


Hi

We could go on like this all day your opinion my opinion etc. I'll say again imo there is not a Yip Chun student alive that would stand up to bayer in chi sau and your kidding yourself if you think Sam Kwok would!

[Vajramusti]

Hi

We could go on like this all day your opinion my opinion etc. I'll say again imo there is not a Yip Chun student alive that would stand up to bayer in chi sau and your kidding yourself if you think Sam Kwok would!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good grief!!!

[jimhalliwell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbeUCMU_Bv8

Footwork interesting.:confused: at 26 seconds response to a hook punch jump to outside gate now im totally confused.Response from his opponent would be in reality knock out Sam with left hook! To actually perform this crazy technique you have to know what hand the opponent is throwing! so its of no use at all! maybe its just me that thinks like this! and really its a demo of what not to do ever! I picked a vid from Sam as I think he maybe the senior Yip chun/Yip Ching guy in the Uk so he must be doing the system correctly then.


JIm

[k gledhill]

Hi

We could go on like this all day your opinion my opinion etc. I'll say again imo there is not a Yip Chun student alive that would stand up to bayer in chi sau and your kidding yourself if you think Sam Kwok would!

I chi saoed with Sam years back , we exchanged ideas.

[jimhalliwell]

I chi saoed with Sam years back , we exchanged ideas.


I bet you did!

[Ali. R]

Hi

I'll say again imo there is not a Yip Chun student alive that would stand up to bayer in chi sau and your kidding yourself if you think Sam Kwok would!

Sounds like a very proud student to me.

[Vajramusti]

Glenn (hugger whatever your name is)
and imo the wsl system is way ahead on the practicality scale of any other Wing Chun linage around.

cheers Jim
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone has opinions and you have yours!!!

[wingchunIan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbeUCMU_Bv8
I picked a vid from Sam as I think he maybe the senior Yip chun/Yip Ching guy in the Uk so he must be doing the system correctly then.


JIm
lol you might want to do some more research Jim

[wingchunIan]

Hi

We could go on like this all day your opinion my opinion etc. I'll say again imo there is not a Yip Chun student alive that would stand up to bayer in chi sau and your kidding yourself if you think Sam Kwok would!

I never mentioned Sam and without any inference good or bad, as to his Wing Chun ability, he was not one of the people I had in mind.
I have no interest in whose opinion is right or wrong and it would be pointless debate, I was merely interested in who you had trained with from the Ip Chun lineage.

[GlennR]

Hi

We could go on like this all day your opinion my opinion etc. I'll say again imo there is not a Yip Chun student alive that would stand up to bayer in chi sau and your kidding yourself if you think Sam Kwok would!

And you wonder why the MMA brigade laugh at WC when you throw out statements like that.

[anerlich]

I'll say again imo there is not a Yip Chun student alive that would stand up to bayer in chi sau and your kidding yourself if you think Sam Kwok would!

Oh gawd ... another true believer.

There's a chi sao comp on in Britain soon ... why don't you Kev, Graham and the other cult members stop slagging it off and enter if you're so f***ing fantastic at it? Put your money where your mouth is, after you've taken your foot out.


And you wonder why the MMA brigade laugh at WC when you throw out statements like that.


Not just the MMA brigade.

[GlennR]

Oh gawd ... another true believer.

I was hoping Jim wasnt one of the WSLPB zealots.... guess i was wrong


There's a chi sao comp on in Britain soon ... why don't you Kev, Graham and the other cult members stop slagging it off and enter if you're so f***ing fantastic at it? Put your money where your mouth is, after you've taken your foot out.


Well thats the obvious thing to do if you truly believe your own rantings.... wont happen though


Not just the MMA brigade.

Whats that old saying, take a number

[jimhalliwell]

[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1202235]lol you might want to do some more research Jim[/QUOTE




From wiki


In 1978 he returned to Hong Kong in hope to find the true source of Wing Chun. Samuel Kwok was introduced to Ip Chun by Lee Sing; who at the time was joining the Ip Man Martial Arts Association. It was during a second meeting with Ip Chun that he offered to teach Samuel Kwok the Wooden Dummy techniques, realizing that he was being given a great honour he accepted. At this time, Ip Chun was only teaching part time.

For the next few years Samuel Kwok had private tuition from Ip Chun, and after gaining Master level in Wing Chun, he opened his first school in Hong Kong. It was not long before his students began making a name for themselves at tournaments and demonstrations in the colony.

When returning to the UK in 1981, he was appointed chairman and senior overseas representative of the Ip Chun Martial Art Association by Grandmaster Ip Chun.

Also a link to sam kwoks website and family tree

http://www.kwokwingchun.com/about-wing-chun/history-&-family-tree/



Ian,

I know Sam and Yip Chun have divorced (and i have been told why) but im pretty sure his wing chun skills have not got any worse (god forbid) than when he was with Yip Chun so Ian can you tell me is this footwork a true representative of the Yip Chun / Yip Ching system or one or the other ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbeUCMU_Bv8

or are the reps of Yip Chun in the uk distancing themselves from Sam? Now im only mentioning Sam because i think the original thread was a video of him performing Chi sau with Yip ching.

Regard to me being WSLVT crazy or whatever I have said it before there are only a couple of people that I respect in this system too Barry Lee and P Bayer (+some students of) and I'll say again this is only my opinion that's all just based on my years of learning Ving tsun just like you have an opinion too, for me the WSLVT system is far superior in practicality than the Yip Chun system.

Now i have left my number if you want to discuss or come and train for free and we can in a real friendly way compare discuss the differences then we all may learn something (again 07912872821)

Cheers

Jim.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=anerlich;1202255]Oh gawd ... another true believer.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For sure!!

[k gledhill]

And you wonder why the MMA brigade laugh at WC when you throw out statements like that.

I agree, I laugh too at the idea of chi sao fighting. Not many know how to connect the dots and use vt in free fighting. Chi sao is a different thing to everyone, but step back and fight and its pretty easy to cut through the c r a p.

[Ali. R]

If one could keep the same form when fighting as playing ‘chi sao’, and that’s a big 'IF' you know how to play chi sao effectively, especially when someone is trying to knock your head off bare knuckled, and by not just playing “pat-ti-cake” (little girls game) when under pressure.

But, really it don’t make a big deference on how hard you can hit, just on how well you could neutralize the oncoming attacks.

As you convert those ideas (chi sao) into fighting, just stay in the pocket without a bunch of unnecessary movements, and all you have to do is ring his bell one good time, and he will come to you with bridge contact; especially if he doesn’t have any good fighting sense.

Take care,

[anerlich]

this is only my opinion

Yep. Though if you'd enter the competition, you'd have something more.

[anerlich]

I laugh too at the idea of chi sao fighting.

So we should laugh at the vids of Phill Bayer you put up?


Not many know how to connect the dots and use vt in free fighting.

Still fewer claim to know and actually can produce any evidence to back up their assertions.

[wingchunIan]

From wiki enough said


I know Sam and Yip Chun have divorced (and i have been told why) but im pretty sure his wing chun skills have not got any worse (god forbid) than when he was with Yip Chun so Ian can you tell me is this footwork a true representative of the Yip Chun / Yip Ching system or one or the other ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbeUCMU_Bv8
As I do not, nor have I ever trained with Sam Kwok or within his organisation I obviously can't comment on what he is doing in the video clip. I do not know the context of the clip or what he was trying to convey. Generally in response to someone attacking in the fashion shown in the clip I and those I have trained with would choose to either stand our ground and evade the blow using turning (or what some refer to as shifting) or move forward with angling to intercept and neutralize the incoming threat. However as said I cannot comment on what was being shown in the video.

or are the reps of Yip Chun in the uk distancing themselves from Sam? Now im only mentioning Sam because i think the original thread was a video of him performing Chi sau with Yip ching. Jim, I think you may have entirely the wrong idea about the way that sigung Ip Chun's lineage is represented in the UK. There are at least five or six organisations within the UK that have links to sigung Ip Chun outside of Sam Kwok's organisation. None of them have any link to Sam Kwok and they all operate as seperate entities with their own chief instructors.


Regard to me being WSLVT crazy or whatever I have said it before there are only a couple of people that I respect in this system too Barry Lee and P Bayer (+some students of) and I'll say again this is only my opinion that's all just based on my years of learning Ving tsun just like you have an opinion too, for me the WSLVT system is far superior in practicality than the Yip Chun system.
Jim this makes no sense, you acknowledge the variation in ability of the individuals within the WSL line and yet generalise about the Ip Chun lineage despite only having a limited exposure to the individuals within it?


Now i have left my number if you want to discuss or come and train for free and we can in a real friendly way compare discuss the differences then we all may learn something (again 07912872821)
I don't get up as far north as Burnley very often, but will be in the North of England in the new year at some point training. I'll see if I can pop across. If not, maybe we can meet up at one of the shows or seminars planned for next year. I am always open to sharing ideas and exploring Wing Chun whatever lineage.

[k gledhill]

enough said


As I do not, nor have I ever trained with Sam Kwok or within his organisation I obviously can't comment on what he is doing in the video clip. I do not know the context of the clip or what he was trying to convey. Generally in response to someone attacking in the fashion shown in the clip I and those I have trained with would choose to either stand our ground and evade the blow using turning (or what some refer to as shifting) or move forward with angling to intercept and neutralize the incoming threat. However as said I cannot comment on what was being shown in the video.
Jim, I think you may have entirely the wrong idea about the way that sigung Ip Chun's lineage is represented in the UK. There are at least five or six organisations within the UK that have links to sigung Ip Chun outside of Sam Kwok's organisation. None of them have any link to Sam Kwok and they all operate as seperate entities with their own chief instructors.


Jim this makes no sense, you acknowledge the variation in ability of the individuals within the WSL line and yet generalise about the Ip Chun lineage despite only having a limited exposure to the individuals within it?


I don't get up as far north as Burnley very often, but will be in the North of England in the new year at some point training. I'll see if I can pop across. If not, maybe we can meet up at one of the shows or seminars planned for next year. I am always open to sharing ideas and exploring Wing Chun whatever lineage.

I know what he is trying to do in the clip, but its obvious hes hasnt quite " mastered " it yet .

[k gledhill]

Holger at work... http://youtu.be/KGy1oiblgqo

[k gledhill]

Well produced clip, http://youtu.be/Lzz47a5089E

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/I1lByg5awAc nice clip.

[k gledhill]

croatia http://youtu.be/jhWE5eJ_Wmk

[jimhalliwell]

enough said




Jim this makes no sense, you acknowledge the variation in ability of the individuals within the WSL line and yet generalise about the Ip Chun lineage despite only having a limited exposure to the individuals within it?

Here it is imo what I found in Wing Chun, out of the WSL line a few really good practical fighters in the Yip Chun line none with anything like these skills! and yes my limited exposure includes all the head Yip Chun UK guys. For me I could not get this system to work and therefore conclude my Wing Chun training actually started when I found the WSL system.


I don't get up as far north as Burnley very often, but will be in the North of England in the new year at some point training. I'll see if I can pop across. If not, maybe we can meet up at one of the shows or seminars planned for next year. I am always open to sharing ideas and exploring Wing Chun whatever lineage.

It would be nice to see you

Jim.

[LoneTiger108]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbeUCMU_Bv8

... I picked a vid from Sam as I think he maybe the senior Yip chun/Yip Ching guy in the Uk so he must be doing the system correctly then.


JIm

I would say he is doing the system correctly according to Ip Mans sons and how 'they want him' to teach internationally. You would do good to remember that he is promoting Wing Chun in some countries that have had little or NO exposure to anything like it before and that is a mission he has taken on for and on behalf of the Ip Family... Good luck to him I say.


[From wiki

In 1978 he returned to Hong Kong in hope to find the true source of Wing Chun. Samuel Kwok was introduced to Ip Chun by Lee Sing; who at the time was joining the Ip Man Martial Arts Association. It was during a second meeting with Ip Chun that he offered to teach Samuel Kwok the Wooden Dummy techniques, realizing that he was being given a great honour he accepted. At this time, Ip Chun was only teaching part time.

I'm only quoting this because it has incorrect information in it and so is not really agreat example of 'truth' at all...

Sam Kwok is my Sisuk, meaning he was trained by my Sigung (Lee Shing) as one of his younger generations (prior to being introduced to Ip Chun). But to say that my Sigung was 'joining' the Yip Man Martial Arts Athletic Association in 1978 is stretching the truth because he was given permission by Yip Man himself to teach Wing Chun prior to leaving HK for England in 1963. It was actually my own Sifu that Ip Chun was inducting into the Wing Chun family in 1978, by request of Lee Shing his school was named 'Jun Mo' :)

I believe at a similar time Uncle Kwok was given the name 'Ching Mo' but maybe one of his direct students can confirm this?

[Graham H]

Oh gawd ... another true believer.

There's a chi sao comp on in Britain soon ... why don't you Kev, Graham and the other cult members stop slagging it off and enter if you're so f***ing fantastic at it? Put your money where your mouth is, after you've taken your foot out.



Not just the MMA brigade.

Thanks for the mention.

[jimhalliwell]

Entry technique.:D



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gvG7rYT55c

[chris bougeard]

So are any guys who have posted on this topic going to enter the chi sao open next year?

Im a Chu Sau Lei practitioner under Alan Orr Sifu and will be taking part, will be interesting to touch hands with any forum posters.

[LoneTiger108]

So are any guys who have posted on this topic going to enter the chi sao open next year?

Im a Chu Sau Lei practitioner under Alan Orr Sifu and will be taking part, will be interesting to touch hands with any forum posters.

I'm not intending to but there has been more interest in the family this time round so some may enter...


Entry technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gvG7rYT55c

Maybe you have students who will Jim?? Or maybe you will put a clip up of yourself teaching Wing Chun, as you seem to have a fixation with taking the pi$$ out of others :D

[jimhalliwell]

So are any guys who have posted on this topic going to enter the chi sao open next year?

Im a Chu Sau Lei practitioner under Alan Orr Sifu and will be taking part, will be interesting to touch hands with any forum posters.


No not again for us lot anyways done that in 1999 2000 2001 2002 at euro wirrall not 100% on the dates its a while ago now we had about 4 or 5 guys enter (out of about 30 entering) and at least one or two won either firsts or seconds not bad others got disqualified. You can verify this with the organizer George Ho if required cos I cant remember.

Jim

[chris bougeard]

Nice one Jim, good to hear you got involved.

So you are obviously not averse to the idea of some kind of proving ground, a good thing...

[Ali. R]

Nice one Jim, good to hear you got involved.

So you are obviously not averse to the idea of some kind of proving ground, a good thing...

:)

I think ‘Jim’ will be posting a good clip soon; of him showing us what I’ve missed over the years in training, and I’m sure that won't cost us anything. Jim does have mad squabbles verbally and it just might be as good physically.

Take care,

[EternalSpring]

This is gonna sound kind of stupid (and since ive acknowledged that i'd appreciate it if you all didn't remind me!), but I think at least half of the videos put up by the Kung Fu community of well known Sifus are purposely done somewhat half assed. I feel like I've seen plenty of videos of various sifus doing forms and such in ways that clearly lack details that they have expressed before when explaining the movements (so you know they knew the detail, they just didn't do it).

Also, again, may sound stupid, but I think lots of sifus who reach a certain level looks more lax when they do things because, simply put, they can do it like that while still be effective. I'm not sure if others have experienced it, but there are plenty times that I felt like my sifu was breaking all the Ving Tsun concepts, but completely dominating me w/ Ving Tsun at the same time, as if any time I did try to do anything, the Ving Tsun was there. It was kinda of like saying "See? Once you train these energies enough, you can use them anyway you want. Try and stop it if you wish." I think the students feeling the technique first hand probably know whats up.

[Ali. R]

Also, again, may sound stupid, but I think lots of sifus who reach a certain level looks more lax when they do things because, simply put, they can do it like that while still be effective.


Man,,, this clip says it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ravi4YtUTxo

Again; very nice post.

[anerlich]

No not again for us lot anyways done that in 1999 2000 2001 2002 at euro wirrall not 100% on the dates its a while ago now we had about 4 or 5 guys enter (out of about 30 entering) and at least one or two won either firsts or seconds not bad others got disqualified. You can verify this with the organizer George Ho if required cos I cant remember.

Jim

Fair enough. Credit for actually stepping up.

[Graham H]

Entry technique.:D



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gvG7rYT55c

Utter rubbish

[Graham H]

Please could you leave your posts on how I can't do any better, why don't I post a clip, that I'm a Philipp Bayer worshipper and belong to some cult and why don't I take part part in Alan Orrs pathetic Chi Sau competition to prove how good I am below please.

Thanks

Graham H

PS Oh and some more unproductive drivvel from Anerlich......

[Graham H]

....and as for the Ip Chun lineage I'm yet to see anything better than old socks either in the UK or Hong Kong.

Please post your disapprovals below as well please

[GlennR]

Please could you leave your posts on how I can't do any better, why don't I post a clip, that I'm a Philipp Bayer worshipper and belong to some cult and why don't I take part part in Alan Orrs pathetic Chi Sau competition to prove how good I am below please.

Thanks

Graham H

PS Oh and some more unproductive drivvel from Anerlich......

Hey dont leave me out!

Or is my forum fu too strong for you my cultish, PB worshipping, Alan Orr avoiding, clipless wannabe ;)

[wingchunIan]

....and as for the Ip Chun lineage I'm yet to see anything better than old socks either in the UK or Hong Kong.

Please post your disapprovals below as well please

and that's why we have an ignore button.......

[jimhalliwell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGEbUBlV9J0


power! at 1.27 are we in need of a bigger room!

you know i think maybe i should have stayed with this Yip Chun /Ching stuff after all!

[k gledhill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGEbUBlV9J0


power! at 1.27 are we in need of a bigger room!

you know i think maybe i should have stayed with this Yip Chun /Ching stuff after all!

To our thinking its all wrong and just doing it for effect rather than reason. Ooooh look at compliant student fly through the room , please.

[Jansingsang]

To our thinking its all wrong and just doing it for effect rather than reason. Ooooh look at compliant student fly through the room , please.

Yes things have changed the days of behind closed doors garbage is long gone. Were in the media age now were we can Now at last scrutinize these Spurious individuals first hand. These are the very reasons why Wing chun has fallen so low by the waste side in the Martial World :o :( :mad:

[EternalSpring]

cant we all just join hands and go beat up some yellow bamboo chi masters?

[Badnews]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGEbUBlV9J0


power! at 1.27 are we in need of a bigger room!

you know i think maybe i should have stayed with this Yip Chun /Ching stuff after all!


...and the myth gets propagated to the eager kool aid drinkers... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QV1T3tJyIc .....1.50 ...I mean c'mon seriously

[LoneTiger108]

and that's why we have an ignore button.......

I have been here for 5 years and haven't used this infamous 'ignore button' yet and to be honest when there is this level of silliness I just stay off the forum altogether!! :D

[Vajramusti]

I have been here for 5 years and haven't used this infamous 'ignore button' yet and to be honest when there is this level of silliness I just stay off the forum altogether!! :D
-----------------------------------------------------

I don't use the ignore button..I just ignore the forum often enough... specially when bad stuff from youtube is put up or PB cookie cutter lop/lop/push videos are repeatedly put up...or chest thumping is on.

[Wayfaring]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGEbUBlV9J0

power! at 1.27 are we in need of a bigger room!

you know i think maybe i should have stayed with this Yip Chun /Ching stuff after all!

I just can't stop thinking about the laughter around the world that would ensue if a top level wrestler would put up a video of an arm drag like this sending someone flying.

It can't bode well for WCK if people actually take that kind of stuff seriously.

[wingchunIan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGEbUBlV9J0


power! at 1.27 are we in need of a bigger room!

you know i think maybe i should have stayed with this Yip Chun /Ching stuff after all!

Lol Maybe it was a self defence seminar and he was demonstrating that if you get a chance to run then you should:D

As I said in a previous post, Sam Kwok's organisation is only one organisation

[Ali. R]

-----------------------------------------------------

I don't use the ignore button..I just ignore the forum often enough... specially when bad stuff from youtube is put up or PB cookie cutter lop/lop/push videos are repeatedly put up...or chest thumping is on.

That's a real nice post.;)

[anerlich]

Please could you leave your posts on how I can't do any better, why don't I post a clip, that I'm a Philipp Bayer worshipper and belong to some cult and why don't I take part part in Alan Orrs pathetic Chi Sau competition to prove how good I am below please.

Thanks

Graham H

PS Oh and some more unproductive drivvel from Anerlich......

Thanks for the mention. For future reference, it's spelt DRIVEL.

[Yoshiyahu]

I have had the priviledge of meeting a very good IP Ching practioner...Who Poon Sau posistion was very closed. Its very interesting the dynamic of centerline structure when doing chi sau. If I do WC with a Yip Lineage practioner I understand this to be the standard for most and will abide by what your comfortable with...

I how ever have different variation of chi sau. For us chi sau is not about centerline. Its purely about sensitivity and developing it. We work on different elements like linkage, stealing, and controlling. Basically we don't utilize poon sau at all during chi sau...We use Jao Sao or running hands. Basically the hands are not as closed as Ip Man lineages. Its basically some what open. a little less than shoulder lenght. But not too wide and not to closed. We basically want to make it difficult to give you more of challenge to close the centerline and also give you the advantage to be able to defend your gates. In our chi sau we strike both center and gates. We use both Linear and circular attacks. If you are too closed outside or circular attacks will take more effort to defend leaving you slower to intercept or redirect outside attacks. If your too open it will be very hard and difficult to defend against a simply jab or straight right.

We reserve structure and centerline study for drills and sparring and san shou. Frankly in a fight I would never have both hands out like that in that posistion. To think even if your structure is closed your going to be able to stop strikes from landing is ridiculous in my opinion. At best you want to be cross hand or double wu sao to defend and protect the centerline.

[Jake104]

I have had the priviledge of meeting a very good IP Ching practioner...Who Poon Sau posistion was very closed. Its very interesting the dynamic of centerline structure when doing chi sau. If I do WC with a Yip Lineage practioner I understand this to be the standard for most and will abide by what your comfortable with...

I how ever have different variation of chi sau. For us chi sau is not about centerline. Its purely about sensitivity and developing it. We work on different elements like linkage, stealing, and controlling. Basically we don't utilize poon sau at all during chi sau...We use Jao Sao or running hands. Basically the hands are not as closed as Ip Man lineages. Its basically some what open. a little less than shoulder lenght. But not too wide and not to closed. We basically want to make it difficult to give you more of challenge to close the centerline and also give you the advantage to be able to defend your gates. In our chi sau we strike both center and gates. We use both Linear and circular attacks. If you are too closed outside or circular attacks will take more effort to defend leaving you slower to intercept or redirect outside attacks. If your too open it will be very hard and difficult to defend against a simply jab or straight right.

We reserve structure and centerline study for drills and sparring and san shou. Frankly in a fight I would never have both hands out like that in that posistion. To think even if your structure is closed your going to be able to stop strikes from landing is ridiculous in my opinion. At best you want to be cross hand or double wu sao to defend and protect the centerline.

If chi Sao in your lineage is not about the center line why chi sAo then? There are plenty of other ways to develop sensitivity.

[LFJ]

This is the type of thing it sounds like Yoshi is describing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnHlLiYmVXA

[EternalSpring]

If chi Sao in your lineage is not about the center line why chi sAo then? There are plenty of other ways to develop sensitivity.

I think i know what he's talking about. My sifu eventually once told me to relax and try and occupy other centerlines while still defending the main/central line during chi sao. Of course, there could be a few reasons why he specifically said this to me, one being that I'm naturally very tense and perhaps he felt i was tightly closed up while i didn't realize it, but another additional reason he gave was that it also helps you draw your opponent/partner in. In his words, "give them a chance to come in a bit." Just to be clear, he didn't say this because my chi sao was good or anything like that, but more because allowing people to come in opened up more scenarios to deal with, which ultimately was a good thing. but thats just my opinion, and im sure its just the tip of the iceberg

[chris bougeard]

"lop/lop/push videos are repeatedly put up" I love that comment!

Pushing an oponent away so you have to go through the pain of having to bridge again , such a great idea :eek:

[LFJ]

"lop/lop/push videos are repeatedly put up" I love that comment!

Pushing an oponent away so you have to go through the pain of having to bridge again , such a great idea :eek:

Bridging is a pain for you? It's the easiest thing in a fight and happens automatically. It's what you do from there.

But anyway, pushing is not just for the heck of it. Done forcefully it slams them into the wall, over chairs, etc.. It's using surroundings. Otherwise a short push breaks their posture and balance and changes their facing while keeping them in your striking range as you continue. Or in chi-sau practice, it can just be to call for a reset, as if they would have been sent rolling down stairs by that point anyway.

I think you may be seeing only the last example and not understanding what it could really be representing and it's potential.

[chris bougeard]

I understand what im looking at, i know how to bridge and im saying that once you have bridged you should stick, pursue and destroy , not push him away.

In a real fight thats a stupid strategy, every time you have to re-enter his killing zone you could eat punches so what im saying is i only want to have to do this once.

[LFJ]

You say you understand, and then speak showing you don't...

Read the description I just posted. You're not leaving or re-entering the opponent's killing zone at all. You can't eat punches when the opponent is on the ground, or turned away from you, off balance and you're right on him attacking. My first point was that you don't just push for the heck of it, evening out the advantage. It's not pushing them "away". It depends on the position and is to gain the advantage.

You apparently don't have this in your system, but are seeing it in a chi-sau drill and assuming that's how it's used in fighting. Mistake.

[k gledhill]

You say you understand, and then speak showing you don't...

Read the description I just posted. You're not leaving or re-entering the opponent's killing zone at all. You can't eat punches when the opponent is on the ground, or turned away from you, off balance and you're right on him attacking. My first point was that you don't just push for the heck of it, evening out the advantage. It's not pushing them "away". It depends on the position and is to gain the advantage.

You apparently don't have this in your system, but are seeing it in a chi-sau drill and assuming that's how it's used in fighting. Mistake.


Good post, the skill in using po-pai while striking isnt widely known, to describe it as pushing an opponent away from 'chi-sao' so they can come back at you is revealing a lack of fundamental ideas about the Ving Tsun system. Btw, Mayweather uses po-pai's in the ring for similar reasons, he doesnt do sticky hands.

[Vajramusti]

Good post, the skill in using po-pai while striking isnt widely known, to describe it as pushing an opponent away from 'chi-sao' so they can come back at you is revealing a lack of fundamental ideas about the Ving Tsun system. Btw, Mayweather uses po-pai's in the ring for similar reasons, he doesnt do sticky hands.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nonsense. Po Pai is very well known in my circle. The po pais shown in the vids by PB students
are not first class. Showing one vid is ok... after that it gets boring. Same old push not po pai. Mayweather is top flight but his structure is not a wing chun structure but serves his boxing purpose.

[chris bougeard]

You're not leaving or re-entering the opponent's killing zone at all.

You are if you push him away.

You can't eat punches when the opponent is on the ground,

so simply pushing him away is going to drop him, i dont think so.

or turned away from you, off balance and you're right on him attacking.

You wont be right on him attacking him if you have pushed him away.

My first point was that you don't just push for the heck of it, evening out the advantage. It's not pushing them "away". It depends on the position and is to gain the advantage.

You are assuming that i dont know much about wing chun. I understand perfectly that using an explosive push can be useful its all down to context and the situation you are in. If you are fighting more than one person it might be beneficial to blast an oponent into one of his buddys to buy a little time or into a wall.

You apparently don't have this in your system, but are seeing it in a chi-sau drill and assuming that's how it's used in fighting. Mistake.


You know nothing about me or the system i train in.

Bottom line is, i always favour hitting over pushing, period

[LFJ]

Chris, are you reading what I write or is the concept just that foreign to you? :confused:


You're not leaving or re-entering the opponent's killing zone at all.

You are if you push him away.

You don't push him "away"... as I explained.


You can't eat punches when the opponent is on the ground,

so simply pushing him away is going to drop him, i dont think so.

You use surroundings and push him over objects, chairs, etc... as I explained.


or turned away from you, off balance and you're right on him attacking.

You wont be right on him attacking him if you have pushed him away.

Again, you don't push him "away"... as I explained.


You are assuming that i dont know much about wing chun. I understand perfectly that using an explosive push can be useful its all down to context and the situation you are in. If you are fighting more than one person it might be beneficial to blast an oponent into one of his buddys to buy a little time or into a wall.

It can be an explosive push for that, or a short push to affect their position, balance, angle to you, etc. while keeping them in your striking range, not "away"... as I explained.


You know nothing about me or the system i train in.

Bottom line is, i always favour hitting over pushing, period

I know a little from what you've made clear here in your comments.

Bottom line is, it's not pushing the opponent away bringing you both into equal opportunity. You understand there are different ranges in fighting, right? There are situations where you are closer than the ideal 3/4 striking range, and can use the pushing action to affect balance and angle and bring them into the range where you can continue striking as preferred from an advantageous position.

Hope that is understandable this time...

[k gledhill]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nonsense. Po Pai is very well known in my circle. The po pais shown in the vids by PB students
are not first class. Showing one vid is ok... after that it gets boring. Same old push not po pai. Mayweather is top flight but his structure is not a wing chun structure but serves his boxing purpose.

"not 1st class " ...... same 'ol, same 'ol makes for mindless execution OUTSIDE the chi-sao lala land you live in.

[Frost]

Good post, the skill in using po-pai while striking isnt widely known, to describe it as pushing an opponent away from 'chi-sao' so they can come back at you is revealing a lack of fundamental ideas about the Ving Tsun system. Btw, Mayweather uses po-pai's in the ring for similar reasons, he doesnt do sticky hands.

please mayweather has no idea what po pai is please dont use others outside your system to make it look better, simply post a clip of someone within your lineage using it in something other than chi sao.......:)

[k gledhill]

please mayweather has no idea what po pai is please dont use others outside your system to make it look better, simply post a clip of someone within your lineage using it in something other than chi sao.......:)

Lmao at frost being all knowing about po-pai's now !

[Frost]

Lmao at frost being all knowing about po-pai's now !

Where did I say I know po poi? I said
a) Don’t claim a boxer as proof something you do in your lineage works and
b) show us it in action outside of chi sao so we can bask in its Awesomeness

[k gledhill]

Wong Shun Leung had drills for applying po-pais to boxers, very effective.

[Frost]

Wong Shun Leung had drills for applying po-pais to boxers, very effective.

im sure he did fancy filming them for us going against some boxers at your gym........:)

[Vajramusti]

Wong Shun Leung had drills for applying po-pais to boxers, very effective.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe. But you are not WSL and you did not learn from him.

[JPinAZ]

You're not leaving or re-entering the opponent's killing zone at all.

You are if you push him away.

You can't eat punches when the opponent is on the ground,

so simply pushing him away is going to drop him, i dont think so.

or turned away from you, off balance and you're right on him attacking.

You wont be right on him attacking him if you have pushed him away.

My first point was that you don't just push for the heck of it, evening out the advantage. It's not pushing them "away". It depends on the position and is to gain the advantage.

You are assuming that i dont know much about wing chun. I understand perfectly that using an explosive push can be useful its all down to context and the situation you are in. If you are fighting more than one person it might be beneficial to blast an oponent into one of his buddys to buy a little time or into a wall.

You apparently don't have this in your system, but are seeing it in a chi-sau drill and assuming that's how it's used in fighting. Mistake.


You know nothing about me or the system i train in.

Bottom line is, i always favour hitting over pushing, period


Chris is pretty much spot on.

And to all of those egaged in the silly argument over who knows Po Pai - it's embarrassing - please, just stop..

[k gledhill]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe. But you are not WSL and you did not learn from him.

That doesnt make the techniques any less effective against boxers....maybe ?? please...

[k gledhill]

Chris is pretty much spot on.

And to all of those egaged in the silly argument over who knows Po Pai - it's embarrassing - please, just stop..

I think we can see that you and Chris have a different view of why we use po-pai.
LFJ nailed it.
A common error beginners make when executing po-pai is to shove with upper body in 2 beats with too much force, its easy to 'cut' into the timing....there are drills for just po-paing in a circle to try and make one leave the circle and counter the po-pai and re po-pai back....pretty intense and also very useful for guys who overturn trying to use force or hard blocks, unaware of the centerline values in fighting.

[JPinAZ]

I think we can see that you and Chris have a different view of why we use po-pai.
LFJ nailed it.
A common error beginners make when executing po-pai is to shove with upper body in 2 beats with too much force, its easy to 'cut' into the timing....there are drills for just po-paing in a circle to try and make one leave the circle and counter the po-pai and re po-pai back....pretty intense and also very useful for guys who overturn trying to use force or hard blocks, unaware of the centerline values in fighting.

I wasn't even talking about po pai per se. I was only referring to Chris being correct about the downfalls of unnecessarily 'pushing' people away, which obviously went over your head.

But if you want to argue about who's got the real technique of po pai and who doesn't, feel free :rolleyes:

[k gledhill]

I wasn't even talking about po pai per se. I was only referring to Chris being correct about the downfalls of unnecessarily 'pushing' people away, which obviously went over your head.

But if you want to argue about who's got the real technique of po pai and who doesn't, feel free :rolleyes:

We are talking about PP, it goes without saying not to just shove a guy away...please.

[JPinAZ]

We are talking about PP, it goes without saying not to just shove a guy away...please.

no, YOU were talking about technique/Po Pai (rediculously at that by arguing who's got the real PP technique and who doesn't ).
I commented to agree with Chris on the theory of why we shouldn't needlessly 'push' people away once you already have them in striking range (po pai or otherwise).

Since you're obviously to blinded by your own need to be right, you've already forgotten how you even got to the silly subject of po pai - it's once you joined the discussion. Before that only 'pushing' was mentioned - and it was only a page or two ago.

Since you've forgotten, here's how it went (I bolded the word push so you don't miss it - please pay attention):


"lop/lop/push videos are repeatedly put up" I love that comment!

Pushing an oponent away so you have to go through the pain of having to bridge again , such a great idea :eek:


Bridging is a pain for you? It's the easiest thing in a fight and happens automatically. It's what you do from there.

But anyway, pushing is not just for the heck of it. Done forcefully it slams them into the wall, over chairs, etc.. It's using surroundings. Otherwise a short push breaks their posture and balance and changes their facing while keeping them in your striking range as you continue. Or in chi-sau practice, it can just be to call for a reset, as if they would have been sent rolling down stairs by that point anyway.

I think you may be seeing only the last example and not understanding what it could really be representing and it's potential.


I understand what im looking at, i know how to bridge and im saying that once you have bridged you should stick, pursue and destroy , not push him away.

In a real fight thats a stupid strategy, every time you have to re-enter his killing zone you could eat punches so what im saying is i only want to have to do this once.


You say you understand, and then speak showing you don't...

Read the description I just posted. You're not leaving or re-entering the opponent's killing zone at all. You can't eat punches when the opponent is on the ground, or turned away from you, off balance and you're right on him attacking. My first point was that you don't just push for the heck of it, evening out the advantage. It's not pushing them "away". It depends on the position and is to gain the advantage.

You apparently don't have this in your system, but are seeing it in a chi-sau drill and assuming that's how it's used in fighting. Mistake.

At this point I could now point out how you correcting me makes you sound like more than a bit of a moron, but I'm starting to think you're kinda special and will try to have some pity on you :rolleyes:

[jimhalliwell]

To lighten the mood here is some Advanced Chi sau take it guys it takes a deep understanding to do it as good as this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UxDpMPXp8g&list=PLTrf02wSphH-nlSjl8jJQRR_NNMKOzABT


Cheers Jim :D

ps not for beginners!! this is the Yip Chun / Yip Ching line at its best !

[EternalSpring]

You're not leaving or re-entering the opponent's killing zone at all.

You are if you push him away.

You can't eat punches when the opponent is on the ground,

so simply pushing him away is going to drop him, i dont think so.

or turned away from you, off balance and you're right on him attacking.

You wont be right on him attacking him if you have pushed him away.

My first point was that you don't just push for the heck of it, evening out the advantage. It's not pushing them "away". It depends on the position and is to gain the advantage.

You are assuming that i dont know much about wing chun. I understand perfectly that using an explosive push can be useful its all down to context and the situation you are in. If you are fighting more than one person it might be beneficial to blast an oponent into one of his buddys to buy a little time or into a wall.

You apparently don't have this in your system, but are seeing it in a chi-sau drill and assuming that's how it's used in fighting. Mistake.


You know nothing about me or the system i train in.

Bottom line is, i always favour hitting over pushing, period

I think the point is that you're not pushing the person "out of striking range." This is the only way that "pushing" would take away your ability to hit.

[k gledhill]

no, YOU were talking about technique/Po Pai (rediculously at that by arguing who's got the real PP technique and who doesn't ).
I commented to agree with Chris on the theory of why we shouldn't needlessly 'push' people away once you already have them in striking range (po pai or otherwise).

Since you're obviously to blinded by your own need to be right, you've already forgotten how you even got to the silly subject of po pai - it's once you joined the discussion. Before that only 'pushing' was mentioned - and it was only a page or two ago.

Since you've forgotten, here's how it went (I bolded the word push so you don't miss it - please pay attention):









At this point I could now point out how you correcting me makes you sound like more than a bit of a moron, but I'm starting to think you're kinda special and will try to have some pity on you :rolleyes:

Trying to explain in such length makes me have pity on your need to be correct as you project on me...but we knew you to be an anal retentive already. I know my IQ, you might want to recheck yours before going there.

[JPinAZ]

Trying to explain in such length makes me have pity on your need to be correct as you project on me...but we knew you to be an anal retentive already. I know my IQ, you might want to recheck yours before going there.

Utter garbage.
You win, so I'll just leave you to what you know best: arguing about who got the real technique of Po Pai and giving PB's nutz underdogs.
Later

[k gledhill]

Ignore list is growing, I hope its reciprocal ...anyway ! Back to the clips. Here is a po=pai 'ish clip...

http://youtu.be/xPI46wHJ2lE

[GlennR]

That doesnt make the techniques any less effective against boxers....maybe ?? please...

So youve created a bridge with a boxer and now you want to push him into...... boxing range!

Genius!!!

[Yoshiyahu]

If chi Sao in your lineage is not about the center line why chi sAo then? There are plenty of other ways to develop sensitivity.

Jake104 excellent question...There are different variation of chi sau we utilize but most basic level is not about having your arms in so close no one can slip in...Although I can do both. On the basic level we are taught to be open. So we can feel the holes and learn to still our opponents opening. Later on we learn how to close the holes...Basically what you would call centerline in chi sau...But even when you have your hands close. I can still snake in an Strike your throat...i dont care how good you roll. i can still poke your adams apple if i choose to do so...Also i can still slide in an PE Fist your sternum or diaphram. But i digress. Chi Sao isnt for fighting. We add elements of fighting in entry level sparring. entry level sparring or what we call WC sparring or inclose sparring is not Full sparring or freestyle sparring...its basically where you are allowed to use more elements of the WC an learn how to use them at a close contact with out rolling.


But let me answer your question...Chi sau is about sensitivity. learning how to redirect force, learning how to feel your opponents intent, learning how to trap, control, and grapple while striking simultaneously. Its about learning how to use your elements of Ma Form and Sil Lim Tao...You really don't start seeing elements of Chum Kiu and stepping moves of Sup Yee San Sik until you start doing free movement sparring. Structure is drilled during Partner drills, Gung Lik exercises, and also San Sik drills as well as stationary and free motion sparring. We separate the two sparring and chi sau because we want you to gleam different things from your WC training...Eventually after about a year of training you should be able to freestyle spar...Which is really what matters because WC sparring is cool but its not Freestyle...freestyle sparring means anything goes be it muay thai, kick boxijng, boxing, sand da, WC or what ever....The WC we do is geared towards being able to fight non-wing chun people...So we have a different approach...Our chi sau is softer, more fluent, we are not technique based with chi sau...Its purely free style chi sau. Technique based applications comes from drills and solo practice. Chi Sau for us is about using your natural spirit to conqeror yourself and let go of your will! Follow your oppnent for his intent speaks to you!

[k gledhill]

So youve created a bridge with a boxer and now you want to push him into...... boxing range!

Genius!!!

Sigh........our legs are just stuck to the floor and we shove them away ? Is that how you see it ? Here try again, let me help you ?

[GlennR]

Sigh........our legs are just stuck to the floor and we shove them away ? Is that how you see it ? Here try again, let me help you ?

Sigh.... are we all a bit stupid for you Kev? ;)

[JPinAZ]

Sigh.... are we all a bit stupid for you Kev? ;)

I think what he's saying is he will push them away, but he won't just stand there - he'll chase them down afterwards with footwork so he can hit him vs. just keeping them where they are and hitting them. Makes a LOT of sense.. :rolleyes:

[GlennR]

I think what he's saying is he will push them away, but he won't just stand there - he'll chase them down afterwards with footwork so he can hit him vs. just keeping them where they are and hitting them. Makes a LOT of sense.. :rolleyes:

Come on, its from the WSL line, so it MUST be right!

[k gledhill]

Sigh.... are we all a bit stupid for you Kev? ;)

Simple ideas can be elusive....to many.

[Yoshiyahu]

This is the type of thing it sounds like Yoshi is describing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnHlLiYmVXA

Exactly LFJ thats what im talking about...you right on. Its about learning how to use wc techns and energy.


I think i know what he's talking about. My sifu eventually once told me to relax and try and occupy other centerlines while still defending the main/central line during chi sao. Of course, there could be a few reasons why he specifically said this to me, one being that I'm naturally very tense and perhaps he felt i was tightly closed up while i didn't realize it, but another additional reason he gave was that it also helps you draw your opponent/partner in. In his words, "give them a chance to come in a bit." Just to be clear, he didn't say this because my chi sao was good or anything like that, but more because allowing people to come in opened up more scenarios to deal with, which ultimately was a good thing. but thats just my opinion, and im sure its just the tip of the iceberg

Exactly Eternal Spring. its not to say we shouldnt close our gates or tighten up during chi sau but its basically for us to learn how to deal with attacks. When i do Chi Sau with beginners i can make the circle very very very small. But then they would never touch me. My Circle is usually medium...Actually the video LFJ posted usually its around their openess or maybe a little more depending on who im doing chi sau with. Certain folks I keep the circle real small but its only few arrogant *******s i do that with. But if your circle is open you learn how to feel for incoming force and redirect it. If its too small incoming force will rarely make its way into your opening because it will clash with your bridge.

[Frost]

Simple ideas can be elusive....to many.

so thats a no then on you putting up a clip of yourself doing what you are talking about against a boxer in your gym :eek:

[LFJ]

I commented to agree with Chris on the theory of why we shouldn't needlessly 'push' people away once you already have them in striking range (po pai or otherwise).

Chris was only arguing that because he didn't understand how po-pai is actually used, at least in WSLVT. No one on either side is arguing that we should needlessly push people away once we already have them in striking range.

Possible uses mentioned:

1. Using surroundings, pushing the opponent over objects, chairs, stairs, into walls, other attackers, etc. with a strong burst.
2. In situations closer than ideal striking range, using a short burst to create space and affect balance, position, angle toward us, etc. while keeping the opponent in our striking range as we continue to attack from an advantageous position.

Where does this describe needlessly pushing people away once we have them in striking range??


you've already forgotten how you even got to the silly subject of po pai - it's once you joined the discussion. Before that only 'pushing' was mentioned - and it was only a page or two ago.

Since you've forgotten, here's how it went (I bolded the word push so you don't miss it - please pay attention):



"lop/lop/push videos are repeatedly put up" I love that comment!

Pushing an oponent away so you have to go through the pain of having to bridge again , such a great idea

Wrong. That "lop/lop/push" comment came from Joy about PB chi-sau videos. It was in reference to po-pai, which both Joy and Chris misunderstood to be pushing the opponent away, allowing them to reengage.

As I tried to explain, in chi-sau drills po-pai is sometimes used to call for a reset assuming that in actual usage it would be knocking the opponent over or into something/someone, or to affect balance, posture, and angle to continue striking from an advantageous position. But in the drill, in the eyes of an uninformed onlooker it may look like pushing the opponent away for no reason. It is not that.

[k gledhill]

To lighten the mood here is some Advanced Chi sau take it guys it takes a deep understanding to do it as good as this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UxDpMPXp8g&list=PLTrf02wSphH-nlSjl8jJQRR_NNMKOzABT


Cheers Jim :D

ps not for beginners!! this is the Yip Chun / Yip Ching line at its best !

Awful......

[Graham H]

More rubbish but this time with "advanced" and "Grandmaster" inside.

[wingchunIan]

To lighten the mood here is some Advanced Chi sau take it guys it takes a deep understanding to do it as good as this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UxDpMPXp8g&list=PLTrf02wSphH-nlSjl8jJQRR_NNMKOzABT


Cheers Jim :D

ps not for beginners!! this is the Yip Chun / Yip Ching line at its best !

Jim, whatever your issue is with Sam Kwok you really should take it up with him rather than continuing to post videos of him here.
As regards your parting line, in all honesty you have no idea about the Ip chun line as demonstrated by your continued belief that Sam Kwok is somehow representative of the whole lineage.

[jimhalliwell]

Jim, whatever your issue is with Sam Kwok you really should take it up with him rather than continuing to post videos of him here.
As regards your parting line, in all honesty you have no idea about the Ip chun line as demonstrated by your continued belief that Sam Kwok is somehow representative of the whole lineage.


I eagerly await my education.


JIm

[Graham H]

Jim, whatever your issue is with Sam Kwok you really should take it up with him rather than continuing to post videos of him here.
.

Why not? It's entertaining and people should have the right to see what a "real" Grandmaster looks like! :D

[jimhalliwell]

Why not? It's entertaining and people should have the right to see what a "real" Grandmaster looks like! :D


lol I did i asked him to chi sau in 2002 or 2003 at liverpool in front of 10 witnesses he refused.

Jim:(

[k gledhill]

I chi-saoed him, I gave him a big slap straight away, he got angry and we went at it...I was not impressed that I could (seung ma ) step in with a tan sao and land a palm strike to him so easily.

[anerlich]

Jim, whatever your issue is with Sam Kwok

Jim and Kev appear to have issues with everyone that isn't Phillip Bayer. Actually they have issues with him too, just of a different type.

[GlennR]

Jim and Kev appear to have issues with everyone that isn't Phillip Bayer. Actually they have issues with him too, just of a different type.

Yes, it's lovely to see a man crush in action

[jimhalliwell]

Yes, it's lovely to see a man crush in action


lol

even i had a laugh at this merry xmas


Jim:D

[k gledhill]

Analich is on my ignore list for a good reason ; )

Clip of Nenad Koviljak a TWC master who met PB and dropped years of previous thinking to take up WSL VT, rename his organization and drop W Cheung....

http://youtu.be/KX8x0Ijwi-w

[Sean66]

Philipp has put 30 years of hard training into his craft. Whatever your take may be on politics and/or personalities, you've got to admit that he's developed his skills to an amazingly high level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-NjPDwUA18

[anerlich]

Analich is on my ignore list for a good reason ; )

Good to see Kev taking the high road.

[anerlich]

Philipp has put 30 years of hard training into his craft. Whatever your take may be on politics and/or personalities, you've got to admit that he's developed his skills to an amazingly high level.


I'm not insulting PB's WC skills, I'm insulting Kev and his ilk's a$$-kissing and hagiographic skills.

[k gledhill]

Philipp has put 30 years of hard training into his craft. Whatever your take may be on politics and/or personalities, you've got to admit that he's developed his skills to an amazingly high level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-NjPDwUA18

Agree, hard work with good coaching.

[k gledhill]

WSL on a snake & crane topic... http://youtu.be/2g79UjBaXAo

[anerlich]

Clip of Nenad Koviljak a TWC master who met PB and dropped years of previous thinking to take up WSL VT, rename his organization and drop W Cheung....

My instructor parted ways with William Cheung in 1996. This dude might be a bit slower on the uptake or something.

While my instructor has a kickboxing record of 100 + amateur fights and 37 pro, and has gone on to a Dan grade in Kyokushin and a brown belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu while continuing to train and teach WC professionally, I'm sure he would be disappointed not to have met the German WC messiah PB, assuming he knows who Phill is since compared to my instructor he is a relative newcomer to WC.

If my instructor ever gets interested in competitive chi sao, I'll direct him to Kev's vids of PB doing the same, as the man certainly has demonstrable skillz in that department.

[jimhalliwell]

Philipp has put 30 years of hard training into his craft. Whatever your take may be on politics and/or personalities, you've got to admit that he's developed his skills to an amazingly high level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-NjPDwUA18


Great example of Ving tsun.

have we any great examples (employing simple direct efficient techniques) from any Wing chun seniors from the Yip chun/Ching linage at all?;)

Cheers

Jim.

[GlennR]

Good to see Kev taking the high road.

I'm trying to get on that list but failing, what's your secret???

[GlennR]

Great example of Ving tsun.

have we any great examples (employing simple direct efficient techniques) from any Wing chun seniors from the Yip chun/Ching linage at all?;)

Cheers

Jim.

Well I'm from the TST line and I'm thinking an 80 yo man is probably passed the "look at me on YouTube stage"

Just has a thought..... Is Kevin over 80? That would explain his lack of clips ;)

[Frost]

I'm trying to get on that list but failing, what's your secret???

i have made it onto the list two so god knows what you are doing wrong :)

[Vajramusti]

i have made it onto the list two so god knows what you are doing wrong :)
-----------------------------------------------
Frost and Anerlich are lucky guys.

[jimhalliwell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSJpWxEB150

:D

I think this guy is a direct student of Yip Chun? and i assume a good example of the fighting ability (and chi sau ability) of that lineage? (at the top end of course)


Jim.

[k gledhill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSJpWxEB150

:D

I think this guy is a direct student of Yip Chun? and i assume a good example of the fighting ability (and chi sau ability) of that lineage? (at the top end of course)


Jim.

M Tse is a qi guy / charlatan , IMO.

[Jansingsang]

M Tse is a qi guy / charlatan , IMO.


Charlatan , charlatan , charlatan A Vingtsun Police Investigation is called for Anymore we can weed out amongst the Innocent unsuspecting Public before the Rot sets in ! :D

[anerlich]

I'm trying to get on that list but failing, what's your secret???

Per the I Ching: "Perseverance furthers".

[anerlich]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSJpWxEB150

:D

I think this guy is a direct student of Yip Chun? and i assume a good example of the fighting ability (and chi sau ability) of that lineage? (at the top end of course)


Jim.

I get the feeling you are trolling. You should be able to tell by now that I have little regard for such behaviour.

[anerlich]

Philipp has put 30 years of hard training into his craft. Whatever your take may be on politics and/or personalities, you've got to admit that he's developed his skills to an amazingly high level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-NjPDwUA18

Fantastic competition chi sao. Extra points for doing it with his shades on top of his head.

[anerlich]

-----------------------------------------------
Frost and Anerlich are lucky guys.

Certainly as regards being availed of the opportunity to watch hours of PB competition chi sao footage on Youtube. I hope all other forum members have similarly enriched their lives thanks to Kev's generosity.

[GlennR]

Charlatan , charlatan , charlatan A Vingtsun Police Investigation is called for Anymore we can weed out amongst the Innocent unsuspecting Public before the Rot sets in ! :D

Fear not, the PBS Caped Crusaders will right this WC wrong by hurling more PB clips at us!!!!!!

[Vajramusti]

Fear not, the PBS Caped Crusaders will right this WC wrong by hurling more PB clips at us!!!!!!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OH no! the Mayan calendar didn't save me from this rot and rottingham!!

[k gledhill]

Fear not, the PBS Caped Crusaders will right this WC wrong by hurling more PB clips at us!!!!!!

Nothing to do with PB dude, just common sense, I knew he was a 'charlatan' long time before pb days. M Tse used to get guys to close eyes and then move them with his QI force. I think he saw chi-sao 'fighting without fighting' as the next step to making $ off the unsuspecting newbee along with a book deal.

[Jansingsang]

Fear not, the PBS Caped Crusaders will right this WC wrong by hurling more PB clips at us!!!!!!

Were surely in safe hands as it goes for the PBS Caped Crusaders leave no Stones unturned:D Soon the Wc world would rid of these Charlatan, Charlatan Charlatan, Ooh iam stuck better take a chill pill ;)

[k gledhill]

Fear not, the PBS Caped Crusaders will right this WC wrong by hurling more PB clips at us!!!!!!

Waste of time hurling anymore clips Glenn, if you can't see it by now you never will.

[anerlich]

Waste of time hurling anymore clips Glenn

Was a waste of time at the start, for everyone.

[LFJ]

It seems the WSL guys are posting example clips of what they consider to be good Ving Tsun. What about the Yip Chun/Ching guys here? Which clips should I look at if I want to see a good example from their lineages?

[GlennR]

Waste of time hurling anymore clips Glenn, if you can't see it by now you never will.

If you go back to some of the earlier PB clips (about 5000 ago) I commented that he was obviously skilled,but not to the exclusion of others (ie anyone non-WSL lineage). you feel otherwise and keep putting up clips reminding everyone how wonderful he is ,and when another clip is put up (of another lineage) you jump in to remind everyone how clueless, hopeless, no idea etc etc they are.

So keep putting them up, keep rubbishing other lineages, keep ignoring frost/anerlich, keep dropping the fact you teach at a regarded boxing gym and I'll keep having a laugh at you and the other WSL guys that seem to have so heavily invested in believing your WC way is the only WC way.

Crusade away Captain WC!!!!!!

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=GlennR;1203370
Crusade away Captain WC!!!!!![/QUOTE]
------------------------------------------------------

Nah!

[Vajramusti]

------------------------------------------------------

Nah!

No more Ip Chun student videos either.

Rest and enjoy the season.

[k gledhill]

If you go back to some of the earlier PB clips (about 5000 ago) I commented that he was obviously skilled,but not to the exclusion of others (ie anyone non-WSL lineage). you feel otherwise and keep putting up clips reminding everyone how wonderful he is ,and when another clip is put up (of another lineage) you jump in to remind everyone how clueless, hopeless, no idea etc etc they are.

So keep putting them up, keep rubbishing other lineages, keep ignoring frost/anerlich, keep dropping the fact you teach at a regarded boxing gym and I'll keep having a laugh at you and the other WSL guys that seem to have so heavily invested in believing your WC way is the only WC way.

Crusade away Captain WC!!!!!!

Carry on "Nuthugging Avenger".

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/_YKxtTNlOv8 WSL lap sao clip

[wingchun.com]

Videos of Jim and his students. (http://vingtsun.webs.com/apps/videos/show/16888449)




:)

I think ‘Jim’ will be posting a good clip soon; of him showing us what I’ve missed over the years in training, and I’m sure that won't cost us anything. Jim does have mad squabbles verbally and it just might be as good physically.

Take care,

[jimhalliwell]

Videos of Jim and his students. (http://vingtsun.webs.com/apps/videos/show/16888449)


Will do thanks for the reminder

JIm

[k gledhill]

More WSL on "Dim Mak" aka death touch http://youtu.be/f1dd7g0qkvI

[jimhalliwell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFV1iFVJUoA :):):)

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/Wha138xMBN8

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/NDrPbQUcEgA

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/IUawXvyQz8E

[jimhalliwell]

http://youtu.be/IUawXvyQz8E



:) must be some Barry Lee influence.

Jim.

[k gledhill]

:) must be some Barry Lee influence.

Jim.

The music is hilarious !

[Jansingsang]

The music is hilarious !

Oh no its not its Salsa Music Whats hilarious is the Vingtsun in this setting as, there should be dancers:eek: Then again the dancing is a skill set as Vingtsun Hmmm ;)

[k gledhill]

1:08 - 1:13 WSL punching in dan chi ....http://youtu.be/ZWFljy2e10k

[jimhalliwell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEbmvLKr7p4

Here you go

Jim :)

[Jansingsang]

Cant believe i was watching this ahh a little comic relief wont hurt :D

http://youtu.be/0OWKGxGdS1o

[Sean66]

Thanks for the video, Jim, and good work!
That's the Ving Tsun that I know: Focus not on connecting with the arms of the opponent, but on hitting him!

[jimhalliwell]

Thanks for the video, Jim, and good work!
That's the Ving Tsun that I know: Focus not on connecting with the arms of the opponent, but on hitting him!

Hitting him yes that's it! this is what we try to do all the time. Here is the link on the website rather than just the tube link , There are some of WSL that people may want to see.

http://vingtsun.webs.com/apps/videos/videos/show/17511137-jim-and-chris-june-2012-


Jim.

[GlennR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFV1iFVJUoA :):):)

Havent seen that for years... thanks for that Jim

My mates and i still like to see some "windmill action" ;)

[k gledhill]

http://youtu.be/QYRikkJc404 "Master"

[Phil Redmond]

Nothing like wsl pb Ving Tsun fighting. All based on touching, the position of the arms are parallel, contradicting our basic striking ideas. Awful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3y87ZK-6X4
You said "fighting"??

[k gledhill]

You said "fighting"??

We dont use two arms in parallel (as chi-sao) looking for arms to feel when we 'fight', never mind tactile positions, "cutting the way" . @ 5:10.....?

[LFJ]

Sifu David Peterson chi-sau at Shaolin Pagoda Forest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnTd7Xr79bQ

[wingchunIan]

Personally I'd rather watch this than the other clips already posted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=7EsJf5_JFC8&NR=1:p

[anerlich]

Personally I'd rather watch this than the other clips already posted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=7EsJf5_JFC8&NR=1:p

You are 100% correct. Woo hoo!

[Graham H]

She has a great centerline :)

[jimhalliwell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHDcww7jLDo

:)

[Jansingsang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHDcww7jLDo

:)

You see that ,Jim nobody wants to talk about the Yip boys.. Watch out the Wing Chun Police may be about your playing with heresy mate:D

[k gledhill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHDcww7jLDo

:)

I do ! all hand pressure/chasing. I have chi-saoed with both sons.

[jimhalliwell]

I do ! all hand pressure/chasing. I have chi-saoed with both sons.


I bet your wing chun got better after that :D

[chaotic2k]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuIv06JqVZc This is my master

[GlennR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuIv06JqVZc This is my master

Thanks for that, I haven't laughed that hard for ages

[jimhalliwell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuIv06JqVZc This is my master

My student Shane visited his school to chi sau with him (London I think then) he would not do any with him! Shane said to me all his students seemed brainwashed by his skills. I have never met him and I dont want to imo its rubbish!

JIm halliwell

[chaotic2k]

My student Shane visited his school to chi sau with him (London I think then) he would not do any with him! Shane said to me all his students seemed brainwashed by his skills. I have never met him and I dont want to imo its rubbish!

JIm halliwell

How dare you insult the greatest wing chun master in the universe!

[k gledhill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuIv06JqVZc This is my master

I know " master " Sid personally, he used to do security work for another firm locally in London, the clip says it all.

[Graham H]

Is he still off his head on drugs? :)

[RickMatz]

Short video on Ip Chun. (http://cookdingskitchen.blogspot.com/2013/01/i-have-no-desire-to-retire.html)

[chaotic2k]

Is he still off his head on drugs? :)

Inhaling chi energy via his Bong!

[k gledhill]

Is he still off his head on drugs? :)

I think it was a natural kind of insanity, no outside help ; )

[jimhalliwell]

I would love to give him a slap!:)

[Vajramusti]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuIv06JqVZc This is my master
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The forum is bad enough as it is...why bring additional junk in here?

[chaotic2k]

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The forum is bad enough as it is...why bring additional junk in here?

One man's junk is another man's treasure......

[jimhalliwell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yol4eVTGT-w

Here is the immortal w****r again!

Jim

[GlennR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yol4eVTGT-w

Here is the immortal w****r again!

Jim

That was pretty good....... he's a bit special!

[JamesC]

I now know the taste of victory

[Paddington]

Some videos of wing chun to share via this link.

https://www.youtube.com/user/jimkungfu


Based not too far from me. It is not my class, though I think I have had chi sau sessions with some that attend it. Others on these boards are far more qualified than I to pass comment on the 'standard' of the wing chun presented.

[Treznor]

Hi Paddington,

Where are you from? I live and train in Burnley (with one of Jims students).

Mat

[Paddington]

Hi Paddington,

Where are you from? I live and train in Burnley (with one of Jims students).

Mat

I live in Bradford.

[jimhalliwell]

I live in Bradford.


Hi Mate

I will be doing a workshop in Bradford at some point, so why not come along?
even better your only 45 mins away from me give me a call and we can train together and in a friendly way you can see the way we do things here.My number is below and i look forward to meeting you mate.

Jim halliwell
07912 872 821.

[Graham H]

Hi Mate

I will be doing a workshop in Bradford at some point, so why not come along?
even better your only 45 mins away from me give me a call and we can train together and in a friendly way you can see the way we do things here.My number is below and i look forward to meeting you mate.

Jim halliwell
07912 872 821.

Oh good....another potential WSLVT conversion :D

[GlennR]

Oh good....another potential WSLVT conversion :D

Make sure you stock him up with plenty og PB clips to inundate us with once he is a true disciple

[Paddington]

You both did make me laugh there.

Jim, where are you hosting your seminar in Bradford and when?

Do you remember a lad called Pedro? Used to teach at a place called 'Kickers Black Belt Academy' (Tony Devine, judo and mma, was the only person worth seeing there IMO) in Bradford many moons ago; he trained down the Ip Chun lineage and then took on WSL's interpretation of Wing Chun and then trained down that line, I think.

[Graham H]

Make sure you stock him up with plenty og PB clips to inundate us with once he is a true disciple

No need. he may want to go and see for himself like I did and unlike you did Glen you boner! :D

[Paddington]

And now for the heresy; I am not a big fan of PB.

[jimhalliwell]

You both did make me laugh there.

Jim, where are you hosting your seminar in Bradford and when?

Do you remember a lad called Pedro? Used to teach at a place called 'Kickers Black Belt Academy' (Tony Devine, judo and mma, was the only person worth seeing there IMO) in Bradford many moons ago; he trained down the Ip Chun lineage and then took on WSL's interpretation of Wing Chun and then trained down that line, I think.


Hi

Yes I remember him his training background I think he was an instructor for Colin ward (maybe). he visited my school, you can ask him what he thought and how he did yourself (or you can call me). The seminar will be in a couple of months I teach a small private group that travel to me for lessons from there, your welcome to attend but you know where i am if you want to visit for a couple of hours sooner with me foc of course.

Jim.

[Graham H]

And now for the heresy; I am not a big fan of PB.

Based on what? Video footage? Have you met him or trained with any students? I doubt it as the distance in skill, thinking and overall Ving Tsun knowledge between him and your lineage is from where I'm standing to faint light that can be seen from a space telescope of the youngest formed star after the Big Bang. As you are an advocate of Kau Sau its better that you are not a fan :D

[Paddington]

Based on what? Video footage? Have you met him or trained with any students? I doubt it as the distance in skill, thinking and overall Ving Tsun knowledge between him and your lineage is from where I'm standing to faint light that can be seen from a space telescope of the youngest formed star after the Big Bang. As you are an advocate of Kau Sau its better that you are not a fan :D

Based on a few things really; articles, footage, seminars I've watched etc. More importantly, often I gauge what a Sifu is like by looking at the behavior of his or her students and the standard of their wing chun, conceptually and practically.

As for who I have trained with and who they have learnt from, tbh most of the stuff you are talking about, at least our interpretations, is not really known by you guys. With regards to a lot of the themes you talk about, you would find we do discuss them and share some commonality with you.

Jim, I have not seen Pedro in an age and yes, he did teach for Sifu Ward at the time. I thought you did some training with Sifu Ward too at some point?

[jimhalliwell]

Based on a few things really; articles, footage, seminars I've watched etc. More importantly, often I gauge what a Sifu is like by looking at the behavior of his or her students and the standard of their wing chun, conceptually and practically.

As for who I have trained with and who they have learnt from, tbh most of the stuff you are talking about, at least our interpretations, is not really known by you guys. With regards to a lot of the themes you talk about, you would find we do discuss them and share some commonality with you.

Jim, I have not seen Pedro in an age and yes, he did teach for Sifu Ward at the time. I thought you did some training with Sifu Ward too at some point?

Hi

No never trained with sifu ward at all little point after I found the wsl system. Are you going to visit me or not you would be welcome! We can type all day lets train!

Jim.

[Paddington]

Hi

No never trained with sifu ward at all little point after I found the wsl system. Are you going to visit me or not you would be welcome! We can type all day lets train!

Jim.

Yet decide if I want to have a roll with you or not. I am not short on training partners right now, and that is training partners from different schools of wing chun as well as grapplers and mixed martial artists.

No offense Jim but from what I gather it is quite a highly charged, masculine, aggressive place you run with an emphasis on 'being able to fight'?

[jimhalliwell]

Yet decide if I want to have a roll with you or not. I am not short on training partners right now, and that is training partners from different schools of wing chun as well as grapplers and mixed martial artists.

No offense Jim but from what I gather it is quite a highly charged, masculine, aggressive place you run with an emphasis on 'being able to fight'?


Hi

No offense taken.

Bye

ps fighting is aggressive!

pps were you not going to be "working the doors" one word Dont!!!

[Paddington]

Hi

No offense taken.

Bye

ps fighting is aggressive!

pps were you not going to be "working the doors" one word Dont!!!

Yet to decide if I go get my license. Just qualified as a maths teacher but dislike working in schools; working a door, which I've done before is something I am considering doing again. Don't get me wrong, when I want to train my fighting skills and that aggressiveness, I tend to bring on board more of my grappling experience and train with people into mma instead. Little bit of muay tai thrown in there for good measure too.

Whilst I do use my wing chun in that kinda context when training with mma guys and gals, when I train my wing chun specifically, it is relaxed with little contact or force made when striking someone etc.

Just a FYI, I have experienced street violence quite a bit where I live and usually when I am by myself walking somewhere. On two occasions I was drunk when I was attacked and on the other two, just walking back home after work. Yes some of the instances involved weapons and I consider myself lucky to still be here.

[jimhalliwell]

Yet to decide if I go get my license. Just qualified as a maths teacher but dislike working in schools; working a door, which I've done before is something I am considering doing again. Don't get me wrong, when I want to train my fighting skills and that aggressiveness, I tend to bring on board more of my grappling experience and train with people into mma instead. Little bit of muay tai thrown in there for good measure too.

Whilst I do use my wing chun in that kinda context when training with mma guys and gals, when I train my wing chun specifically, it is relaxed with little contact or force made when striking someone etc.

Just a FYI, I have experienced street violence quite a bit where I live and usually when I am by myself walking somewhere. On two occasions I was drunk when I was attacked and on the other two, just walking back home after work. Yes some of the instances involved weapons and I consider myself lucky to still be here.



Hi

But you cant come to Todmorden for some chi sau! i offered my hand out to help you as you asked about my standard of Ving tsun and you ****ed on it, enough said.

Jim.

[Paddington]

I said I have yet to decide. I think that you do offer up, often in response to some perceived sleight on these boards, chi sau sessions far too often. Besides I didn't question the quality of your wing chun. I said others were better suited to commenting on the quality of the wing chun in the videos (presumably yours) that I linked to.

Also me saying I have some good training partners right now, which I do, is also to say I have little time right now. I am sorry you feel that it is a social sleight by me to imply that it is just not worth my time, to roll and train with you. I don't view your offer as doing me a favor, so to speak.

[jimhalliwell]

I said I have yet to decide. I think that you do offer up, often in response to some perceived sleight on these boards, chi sau sessions far too often. Besides I didn't question the quality of your wing chun. I said others were better suited to commenting on the quality of the wing chun in the videos (presumably yours) that I linked to.

Also me saying I have some good training partners right now, which I do, is also to say I have little time right now. I am sorry you feel that it is a social sleight by me to imply that it is just not worth my time, to roll and train with you. I don't view your offer as doing me a favor, so to speak.



I just think that guys from the wong shun leung lineage are far more prepared to walk the walk than just talk the talk ... Yawn

[Vajramusti]

I just think that guys from the wong shun leung lineage are far more prepared to walk the walk than just talk the talk ... Yawn
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silly claim zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Paddington]

I just think that guys from the wong shun leung lineage are far more prepared to walk the walk than just talk the talk ... Yawn

Jim, I don't know if you are aware but the people I've spoken to about you, some of who have trained with you, speak of coming home with bruises and all sorts of injuries due to overly aggressive training methods. So, I have some insight as to what to expect.

Granted, I gained such insights quite a while back but by looking at your posts on these boards, your youtube clips and your links with others, well, what is indicated is not the kind of environment I want to put myself in nor the way that I wish to train my wing chun.

As I said, I save the more aggressive stuff for when I am doing mma training; actually getting back into judo and ju jitsu again, having much fun.

[jimhalliwell]

Jim, I don't know if you are aware but the people I've spoken to about you, some of who have trained with you, speak of coming home with bruises and all sorts of injuries due to overly aggressive training methods. So, I have some insight as to what to expect.

Granted, I gained such insights quite a while back but by looking at your posts on these boards, your youtube clips and your links with others, well, what is indicated is not the kind of environment I want to put myself in nor the way that I wish to train my wing chun.

As I said, I save the more aggressive stuff for when I am doing mma training; actually getting back into judo and ju jitsu again, having much fun.

Hi

In the 25 years teaching no injuries in my school apart from the odd bruise from time to time on arms etc so your actual speaking to the wrong people. The training is demanding yes and obviously not for you.Can you provide any details about the injuries in my school please? other than arm bruises if not remove your post! which is a blatant lie. It would be great to see you or your school in action (have you a link we can see) so i may learn how its done. I take it you learn yip chun / Yip ching lineage under Sam Kwok or Colin ward?

Jim.

[Paddington]

Hi

In the 25 years teaching no injuries in my school apart from the odd bruise from time to time on arms etc so your actual speaking to the wrong people. The training is demanding yes and obviously not for you.Can you provide any details about the injuries in my school please? other than arm bruises if not remove your post! which is a blatant lie. It would be great to see you or your school in action (have you a link we can see) so i may learn how its done. I take it you learn yip chun / Yip ching lineage under Sam Kwok or Colin ward?

Jim.

First of all Jim, you seem to keep missing the points I write. As I said, I do high impact training when I train my ground work and mma skills and train with mma people. This is separate from my wing chun training, though I do use my wing chun skills and mindset, when I train mma.

I am not going to remove what I stated because that is what I was told and yes as I admitted, it was a while back (I am sorry that you did not know that this is the perception a lot of people, some your ex-students, have of you and your school). You are, however, kind enough to actually confirm that you guys do train with such heavy contact in mind. Your conduct on these boards also adds weight to the suggestion that you run a highly charged, testosterone fueled and overly masculine, school.

Your conduct on these boards also shows a lot of disrespect to others, particularly to people from my lineage of wing chun (like Joy, I hate using that term). Thing is I am of the belief that people's personality shines through in their wing chun, particularly through chi sau, and from what I see of your personality, well....

On a final note, yes, I train down the Ip Chun lineage and many of the schools I attend have children and women and whole families as students. This of course, effects my attitude and how I choose to train my wing chun and where and whom, I choose to train the more combat orientated aggressive stuff with.

EDIT: I do want to look at WSL wing chun a little more and will take some lessons most probably with this guy once I have saved up some cash http://www.wingchun.hk.com/sifu_intro.htm .

[jimhalliwell]

Hi

I have never been a fan of the Yip Chun lineage at all. For me and many others who have left it and that I now teach found it to be of no practical use at all!

I teach people the reality of fighting not fantasy! and my students can defend themselves very well indeed and this is why they come to me. These include door staff, Police officers and normal run of the mill people who want to feel safer.

Anyway all the best to you but if you do want to meet up for a training session you will be made very welcome indeed. Seems the days are gone where people used to meet up to test their chi Sau skills against each other in a friendly way.I will leave it at that but thanks for the critique anyway.I take it your not posting any videos of yourself for my views.?

Jim.

[Paddington]

Hi
Seems the days are gone where people used to meet up to test their chi Sau skills against each other in a friendly way.


No, those days are still here, Jim. I have been up and down the country and rolled with many. Further, not all of these people have trained within the Ip Chun teaching method.

As I said, I do train to fight and I have found what I have learnt in wing chun through those heavily influenced by Ip Chun, useful and practical in that sense; just my testing ground for this is more in a mma context.

I am sorry that I can't be more kind in my assessment of you. It is, perhaps, unfair of me to judge you, mainly, by your conduct on these forums.

EDIT:


I take it your not posting any videos of yourself for my views.?
Jim.

I might include you in the private discussion I am having regarding using the wooden dummy and the kau sau shape :P as that is a video I am making for someone right now. However, I am not sure you really have an interest in kau sau given your WSL background.

[anerlich]

Based on what? Video footage? Have you met him or trained with any students? I doubt it as the distance in skill, thinking and overall Ving Tsun knowledge between him and your lineage is from where I'm standing to faint light that can be seen from a space telescope of the youngest formed star after the Big Bang. As you are an advocate of Kau Sau its better that you are not a fan :D

Just guessing, but it might be the arrogant and closed-minded demeanor of his students? Especially the way they have no problem trashing other lineages but go into hissy fits when the reverse happens? Even putting people on their ignore lists :eek:

[Wayfaring]

I just think that guys from the wong shun leung lineage are far more prepared to walk the walk than just talk the talk ... Yawn

Really? What's your fight record?

[k gledhill]

Really? What's your fight record?

spoken like a true one on one geek....visit Milwall v Chelsea football game one day and shout out your team ; )

this is my past ... http://youtu.be/U8K39KGD-YA

I did security outside a pub on fulham rd opposite chelsea football ground for 2-3 years ....:D

You ever learned ground and pound against a glass 3 pint beer jug in your face ?

[GlennR]

spoken like a true one on one geek....visit Milwall v Chelsea football game one day and shout out your team ; )

this is my past ... http://youtu.be/U8K39KGD-YA

I did security outside a pub on fulham rd opposite chelsea football ground for 2-3 years ....:D

You ever learned ground and pound against a glass 3 pint beer jug in your face ?

Ahhhhh, the old "UK street scene" argument...... as Jim said, yawn.

As a sydney-sider, ive seen heaps of english, irish, scottish etc involved in the martial arts ive been involved with, and im yet to see any (from the same enviroment and with the same experiences) exude super human street fighting skills

Its amazing how, one on one, everyone is pretty much the same.

Except the guys that have competatively fought

[GlennR]

Oh right its way more to prove you can ko a guy your weight and size ...alone in a ring.

So youve done this?


I have fought " more than one " ( not giving #'s ) for bragging comebacks," using VT...usually 2 against me. Sometimes all out western bar scene fights....It amazes me how guys dismiss real combat versus sporting gloved, no weapons at all competition...for combat. Like guys who simulate fighting tellin combat veterans what to do in a real event...:D

No one "dismisses" your experience's Kevin but, just like your PB clip deluge, constantly harping on about your real world experiences to espouse your style of WC is like listening to the boy who cried wolf.... attention much??


Have you ever faced a group of squaddies on a **** up ??

No.... but then i dont know what a squaddie is


:D Reality TV should get this event public. it will make the UFC seem like a playground, never mind knives. Oh wait there are no weapons in one on one fights...so my knife fighting training is redundant ?


Gee Kev, you should teach self defense ;)

[k gledhill]

Glenn you're so much more than me for your ring experience. Please tell me how you would deal with 3 guys in the ring at once ? Your ring experience should help me there. Or 4 guys outside a bar at closing you have never seen, suited up, quiet.......you ask them to leave....one pulls a knife on you...how will your ring experience help me Glenn ?? I would like to hear your ideas. Wait!! I know. I have no fight record with a guy you have seen on TV .

[LaRoux]

Oh right its way more to prove you can ko a guy your weight and size ...alone in a ring.
I have fought " more than one " ( not giving #'s ) for bragging comebacks," using VT...usually 2 against me. Sometimes all out western bar scene fights....It amazes me how guys dismiss real combat versus sporting gloved, no weapons at all competition...for combat. Like guys who simulate fighting tellin combat veterans what to do in a real event...:D
Have you ever faced a group of squaddies on a **** up ?? :D Reality TV should get this event public. it will make the UFC seem like a playground, never mind knives. Oh wait there are no weapons in one on one fights...so my knife fighting training is redundant ?


Glenn you're so much more than me for your ring experience. Please tell me how you would deal with 3 guys in the ring at once ? Your ring experience should help me there. Or 4 guys outside a bar at closing you have never seen, suited up, quiet.......you ask them to leave....one pulls a knife on you...how will your ring experience help me Glenn ?? I would like to hear your ideas. Wait!! I know. I have no fight record with a guy you have seen on TV .
Wanker.


In the above posts, it seems as if you are claiming that you are somehow an expert in fighting multiple opponents with weapons.

In another post, you asked someone to step up, I believe.

I propose this: How about you fight those you are arguing with at the same time with them also having weapons?

Somehow I get the feeling that you probably wouldn't fare so well as you claim to have in the past.

[GlennR]

Glenn you're so much more than me for your ring experience. Please tell me how you would deal with 3 guys in the ring at once ? Your ring experience should help me there. Or 4 guys outside a bar at closing you have never seen, suited up, quiet.......you ask them to leave....one pulls a knife on you...how will your ring experience help me Glenn ?? I would like to hear your ideas. Wait!! I know. I have no fight record with a guy you have seen on TV .
Wanker.

Oh grow up.

I never said that i could handle myself better on the streetz than you, all ive said is that you disregard combat sports far to easily (and readily).

You also disregard basically anything non-wslvt from what i can see.

Its boring Kev.... plain old boring.

Im on this forum to have a chat, have a laugh, take the pi55 out of Graham, get some ideas and meet some people (met John Fung recently)......... what are you on here for??

[GlennR]

I propose this: How about you fight those you are arguing with at the same time with them also having weapons?

Somehow I get the feeling that you probably wouldn't fare so well as you claim to have in the past.


Great idea Laroux!!

Ive done a couple of years of doce pares and illustrisimo arnis so ill be happy to be Kevs armed foe!!

[wingchunIan]

No.... but then i dont know what a squaddie is



for educational purposes Glen, its an english slang term used to describe soldiers. It originated in the military itself as a term used by officers to describe regular soldiers but like all such terms that were originally derogoratory soldiers are now proud of the tag and it is simply a colloquial term used for the none officer class and none admin roles. A bit like I believe american marine infantrymen are reffered to as grunts although I'll admit my knowledge of american military slang is somewhat rusty.:cool:

[GlennR]

for educational purposes Glen, its an english slang term used to describe soldiers. It originated in the military itself as a term used by officers to describe regular soldiers but like all such terms that were originally derogoratory soldiers are now proud of the tag and it is simply a colloquial term used for the none officer class and none admin roles. A bit like I believe american marine infantrymen are reffered to as grunts although I'll admit my knowledge of american military slang is somewhat rusty.:cool:

Cool, thanks for that.

Austrlians are known as diggers FWIW

[Paddington]

oh grow up.

I never said that i could handle myself better on the streetz than you, all ive said is that you disregard combat sports far to easily (and readily).

You also disregard basically anything non-wslvt from what i can see.

Its boring kev.... Plain old boring.

Im on this forum to have a chat, have a laugh, take the pi55 out of graham, get some ideas and meet some people (met john fung recently)......... What are you on here for??

+1

.........

[Wayfaring]

spoken like a true one on one geek....visit Milwall v Chelsea football game one day and shout out your team ; )


Manchester United? Would they kill me or buy me a round?



this is my past ... http://youtu.be/U8K39KGD-YA

Looks like a riot. A little rougher than rival college American football games, but the basic chaos of a small riot. Ironically about 95% of the people you see in this clip are in very little danger. Those acting like they want to fight probably will get what they want and get a couple false cracks too. Keep your head down and keep walking until out of the area IMO. Pepper spray and/or mace would be a better option than squaring off in the VT stance IMO. Most fighting in these scenarios is unskilled.



I did security outside a pub on fulham rd opposite chelsea football ground for 2-3 years ....:D


Yeah, better than 50% of the MMA guys I train with work the doors. You hear crazy stories about once every couple months. They usually tell stories on each other because the first rule of the door is what you brag about can be subpoena'd. Maybe not in the UK though?



You ever learned ground and pound against a glass 3 pint beer jug in your face ?

No but mechanics don't change. If I have mount and they are defending with a 3 pint beer jug obviously you'd punch around it. Or take it away, have a swig, then hit them with it. Under mount being gnp with a mug? Don't get there. If you do you better wrap the beer jug arm and bridge and roll quick before you're out cold. A foette to the gut won't quite cut it there.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1208269]Manchester United? Would they kill me or buy me a round?


Looks like a riot. A little rougher than rival college American football games, but the basic chaos of a small riot.

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Sometimes- the annual Oklahoma-Texas football shoot out in neutral territory can break out in some crazy crowd scenes...in town or on the field at the end of the game.