First off, great post and replies. This question's validity is based on "ryu" and "ryuha", or systems and subsystems. Most Japanese Karate- Kyokushin, Japanese Goju, Shotokan, Wado Ryu, etc. respect those who came before them. I don't know exactly how far they can trace their lineage back though, as many ideas from Okinawa and China were dropped or altered over the years in order to structure Karate as a whole.

In the Okinawan or original forms of Karate, lineage is very, very important. Saying you studied under Shimabuku, Kyan, Soken, Chibana, Y. Higa, Nakazato, Kise or one of the few other "koryu" or classical sensei is understood to mean you may know original karate better than, say, someone who studied Shotokan, or as the Okinawan's call it "school-boy karate".

When Funakoshi began to standardize (not formulate, BIG difference) the karate he learned on the Ryukyus he understood that many of the techs taught to him for life-or-death situations were not applicable to teaching the Japanese people. The fact that many Okinawans looked down on him for attempting to teach their oppressors techniques reserved for Okinawan Samurai (Bushi)was just one reason to restructure training to better fit school boys and the secondary school curriculum.

Itosu did a similar thing, not only to popularize the art for the masses, but to make it safe for teaching in schools. As great as Itosu was, many Orthodox practitioners of Okinawa Karate refer to his systems as "school-boy karate". Don't get me wrong. They understood and understand that this brand of Okinawan Karate, especially Kobayashi Shorin Ryu, is much more "real" than any Japanese brand, but many of the subtle, effective techs of "ti" have been excluded or replaced with those that emphasize athleticism and power which are more conducive with sport competition.

As for "one punch, one kill", this means that your first blow should be the decisive blow. The blow which causes his nose to explode and allow you to finish him of while he is "distracted". It also refers to proper placement of a tech in a real situation so that you incapacitate or control the situation quickly and efficiently. It doesn't necessarily mean that you are actually gonna kill him with every well-placed strike!

So, trust me lineage almost always makes a difference. To say I study BJJ under Carlos Elias, one of Rickson Gracie's top black belts, validates what I learned more than saying I learned from Joe-Schmoe 2-stripe blue belt from Pedro Cornholio's (or whoever's) system. Of course that doesn't automatically confer otherworldly ground skills on the practitioner, that part is dependent on me, but it does tell the knowing that I studied under a 5th Dan who is highly regarded amongst his peers and students. Therefore, you can rest more soundly knowing he's teaching you as he was taught by Rickson, and Rickson by Helio, the Grandmaster.

The same is true for Karate. To say you studied under a sensei who is only 2-3 teachers/generations removed from the Okinawan source is better than saying you studied under Sensei Fred who learned from some guy stationed in Hawaii, who in turn learned from some old Asian fellow who was a 2nd dan under someone who was a 4th dan and studied with some guy who lived and trained Shotokan in Japan in the 60's, and peridodically learned from a guy who "picked-up" techs while researching the lost methods of Shotokan, on Okinawa (from an Isshin Ryu guy, hahahaha).

Lineage is very important to a practitioner of Koryu. It's a very good reference point to begin assessing a karatekas knowledge and skill. As for forms accumulation;If your system emphasizes 40-50 kata, then you can rest assured you're definitely being entangled in the "nonclassical mess". Many old school Masters practiced just one form for many years sometimes a decade, before they began perfecting another. The secrets are in the kata and bunkai. If you have Sequined-Sensei-Joe teaching the "Flight of 1000 Sparrows" kata he invented to win the "National Broadway and Show Tunes Vidal Sassoon Karate Championship" then you are not learning about fighting. After all true Karate is about fighting, period.

[This message was edited by omegapoint on 11-27-01 at 04:04 PM.]