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Thread: bagua sword

  1. #61
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    Doug, you brought it, cool. I'm having some fun. But other people probably are not. So I'll just hit my favorite points.

    If by second hand you mean the video, then everyone makes assumptions from what they see. As you should know, everyone sees something different. Do not try to make it seem like I am the only one making determinations here.

    You are the only one who seems to take his determinations as law.

    This is a funny claim considering the face that you asked him to present his weapons for your scrutiny. So I guess he can show, but only you can tell, right?

    I never said this. Did you major in hasty generalization in school?

    You said "The only waste of time is that you are trying to argue with me about assumptions you are making. You should not have to present it to me for my scrutiny There is a difference beween showing and telling."

    It's fine if you have a problem with their explanation, but you did specifically ask for them to post pictures. If not for your scrutiny, then for what reason?

    You argue that the realness of a weapon determines how the person will perform in a real situation. I offer this counterexample-my teacher has told me that many of the moves in wudang sword are standard sword movements but what distinguishes wudang from the rest is its body method. How does that fit into the problem with the realness of a weapon? If a person performs wudang with a flexible sword, is he no longer doing wudang sword even if he is using the correct body method. I asked a similar question in my last post and you did not address it.
    Last couple of points. You say I am defending those two despite my claims to the contrary. If by defending you mean pointing out your overreaction and misperception, then fine. I am defending them. Also, the fact that other people have a problem with their writing style does not immediately make them wrong. You said that the people change for the culture, but guess what, people make culture.

    Most importantly, you asked "what is an empath?"

    empathy - the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also, the capacity for this.

    This is what I mean when I say you are an empath. This was my whole problem with you to begin with. You seem to believe that you know what these two are thinking based on what they have posted over the internet. Well done.

    Back to the topic. I really do need to learn more about real weapon usage so if you would, please post a link that will take me directly to historical material on the bagua dao's usage on swordforum (not the actual discussion forum please unless it is very detailed). I am having some difficulty finding it from the homepage. If it does not get that specific then I would settle for general info on chinese weaponry's history.

    Oh yeah, I have only been practicing bagua for six months, so I do not know the dao form, nor have I acquired one, although I have seen one on the wall of our school. That's my reason for not posting pictures or clips.

  2. #62
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    Doug

    To begin with, let’s get something understood,
    The author of this thread asked for clips of Ba-Gua weapons forms of which my brother provided.
    Next, I know nothing about the making of swords. Can I tell the difference between a real one and a fake? Yes. Can I use one? With out a doubt. And that’s all the knowledge that I need. Knowing the history of, and knowing how to make swords is nothing I need. It serves no purpose for me.

    (O.K., so a bit of background information actually comes out! See, this is WHY more context must be provided in order to avoid assumptions like the one above. I will address this issue further down, but I never said he lied. How would I know he lied or did not lie? I had no idea who he was or what the connection was that he had/has to members here. Clarity please.)

    Oh, it is clear. My brother told you how we came into possession of the clip. I then came back and co-signed it, but you still continued with you’re train of thought.

    Why didn’t you question anybody else? Why did you focus on us about the authenticity of the blade? All I know is that I can take a head if the need were to arise.
    How good are you with you’re sword? Fine, you know the history and how to tell the quality of a sword, but can you use one? If you were attacked by 6 or 7 people right now, would that knowledge save you’re ass?

    And to all of this long post writing, I don’t have the time. Normally I deal with people like you point for point but to hell with that.
    Trying to take me out my realm of knowledge is not going to happen. You’re subtle attacks can be seen money, and I ask you are you a racist?
    We sat back and thought about this, reread what you wrote and took all kinds of things into consideration; in the end you’re either a racist or a control freak.

    As to being offended. Let me say this, we are fighters and a fighter, for the most part, is ruff. I’m not going to break because you cuss at me or say something that seems a little aggressive. This weak BS has got to stop. We are not sages, even if we aspire to be so. And if that is the goal, you don’t need to be here anyway. What gym have you walked in and heard any form of politeness? This is Martial Arts! Get it? War! We do this for real and seek those that want to share their experience and teach those that don’t know.
    And every once in awhile, expose the straight frauds that hid behind their PC’s and come off like the “Master” they’ve always fantasized themselves as being.


    You accuse us of following blindly a myth. You don’t know us and you’re a new jack. We question everything how else are you going to know or come close to the truth?

    The bottom line is this; this is a martial arts forum, not a sword maker’s forum. I went to you’re board and out of respect, I didn’t write anything because I know nothing about it.
    You on the other hand know nothing of Ba-Gua, which is all that we’re talking about, and you’re trying to goad me into some lengthy useless dialogue about a topic I know nothing about.
    Paul has spanked you enough, but you won’t let it go.

    So I’ll end my part in this by saying this You’re knowledge is useless today, unless tomorrow we put down bullets, bombs and hand grenades and pick up swords and staffs and such.

    I’m out.

    Paul
    Thanks for the support but don’t waste you’re time, because my brother is not wasting his time and I’ve just ended wasting my time

    Peace

    Maoshan

  3. #63
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    many, many links to choose from

    Here are some links to specific threads at www.swordforum.com . I have gone through the whole list of threads, but this is only a sample of what may be helpful. Sorry, but no really great thread has been posted on the Bagua dao that is close to the types about jian and shorter dao. The most relevent one is listed last. I hope this list is not too exhaustive; there is just a lot of information available.

    Doug M

    Tang Dynasty swords:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=1216

    the so-called "snake jian":
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=1768

    Goose Quill dao by modern smith:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=3417

    Early inquiry into two-handed Chinese swords:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=3726

    "Ugly dao" with rings:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=3001

    Aspects of a jian:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=4663

    Reflections on visit to Chinese "sword factory"--eBay-like reproductions:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=8257

    Jian flexibility:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=7188

    Special polearm:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=7697

    Yinyuedao-like (Kwan Dao-like) polearm:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=7949

    Information on teh Da Dao
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=6616

    Historical usage of "hook swords":
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=10200

    Information on traditional sharpening:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=10444

    On fake & production swords:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=10423

    Pommel usage:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=11678

    On tassel/scarf usage:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=13059

    Thomas Chen's web site (MUST SEE):
    http://thomaschen.freewebspace.com/index.html

    Origins of steel (and argument gone bad):
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=16393

    Images of Chinese swords in Paris museum:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=19325

    Using anything as a weapon:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=18929

    Type of wood used on Chinese spears:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=17916

    Two-handed Chinese swordsmanship:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=18137

    On average weight of swords:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=19109

    Vince Evan Yanmaodao:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=20257

    Jian in New York City's Metropolitan Museum of Art:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=19511

    Identifying age of swords:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=4456

    Korean swords (MUST SEE):
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=14549

    Pictures of Qianlong-era swords in the Forbidden City:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=8711

    On problematic book of Chinese weapons:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=26260

    parallels between Chinese and 16th century European martial systems:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=27832

    Comparison of Ox Tail dao (Nuiweidao):
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=27276

    More of the Goose Quill dao (Yanmaodao) from Vince Evans:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=20502

    Nice sword turned letdown:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=28143

    Suspension fittings for sword:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=29690

    Wol Do (Korean Yinyuedao):
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=30765

    Tunkou (collar) on swords:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=30965

    More on tassels:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=29674

    More on historical aspects of the "tiger hook swords":
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=31685

    Fast draws from the scabbard:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=17965

    On Bian (hard whip):
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=31287

    More great pictures of swords in the Forbidden City:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=31962

    Taiji jian characteristics and usage (MUST SEE):
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=3283

    Miao dao (large dao--similar to nodachi):
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=3239

    Picture of Qing Imperial Guardsmen:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=11047

    Miao Dao technical information:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=26963

    Bagua Dao:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...&threadid=7985
    Last edited by Doug; 04-03-2004 at 03:11 AM.

  4. #64
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    Hi,

    First of all, I never meant to bring out your less-than-civil side. That being said, I will address these points:

    How good are you with you’re sword? Fine, you know the history and how to tell the quality of a sword, but can you use one? If you were attacked by 6 or 7 people right now, would that knowledge save you’re ass?

    With a dao (knife), without a doubt. With a jian, not nearly so certain.

    You’re subtle attacks can be seen money, and I ask you are you a racist?
    We sat back and thought about this, reread what you wrote and took all kinds of things into consideration; in the end you’re either a racist or a control freak.


    I can see why you are so misuderstood and why so many people mistake your comments as angry or negative.

    You re-read my posts, sat back, thought about them, took all kinds of things into consideration, and arived at the conclusion that I am a racist? Wow. I was not expecting that. If it were any other situation, I might find responding to this cry worth my while.

    This weak BS has got to stop. We are not sages, even if we aspire to be so. And if that is the goal, you don’t need to be here anyway. What gym have you walked in and heard any form of politeness? This is Martial Arts! Get it? War!

    Let me repeat what Paul mentioned earlier: To this I can only add "KILLING SPREE!!!!!!!!!"

    And every once in awhile, expose the straight frauds that hid behind their PC’s and come off like the “Master” they’ve always fantasized themselves as being.

    Plese tell me about these documented cases.

    you’re trying to goad me into some lengthy useless dialogue about a topic I know nothing about.

    Then WHY did you start arguing in the first place?!

    Paul has spanked you enough, but you won’t let it go.

    If you call that a spanking, then, sir, you have never been disciplined before.

    So I’ll end my part in this by saying this You’re knowledge is useless today, unless tomorrow we put down bullets, bombs and hand grenades and pick up swords and staffs and such.

    Given your response, it is quite clear why you feel this way, my non-aggressive man. You really are misunderstood.

    And what does that say about your practice? According to you, the foreign armies during the Boxer Rebellion taught "your art" a lesson with the very guns and bullets you say put my part to rest. Why are you throwing your life away if you know that anything you learn is useless?

    By the way, what I am talking about will help preserve Chinese culture in the future as a PRIMARY reference, unlike the myth and legend that, while important, easily distorts history.

    I’m out.

    WAY out...

    Your fantasy racist,

    Doug M

  5. #65
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    Sydney Australia
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    Interesting forum, great links
    Thanks Doug

    Sounds like a lot of needless argueing going on,I think you might be talking past each other.
    Pity, great info from both "sides"
    Take it easy all
    A Problem is only a Problem if you think it is a Problem and every Problem has a solution

    Don't worry about losing lass,I've been wrestling wolves since you were suckling on your mama's titt
    Groundskeeper Willy

  6. #66
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    Jan 1970
    Location
    Palmer,AK,USA
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    Post

    If you guys are done bickering here's one more linkwww.traditionalstudies.org go to store, then weapons.
    • Later dudes , Uncle Bob
    "It is essential to lose the mind"

  7. #67
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    Palmer,AK,USA
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    Post

    If you guys are done bickering here's one more linkwww.traditionalstudies.org go to store, then weapons.
    • Later dudes , Uncle Bob
    "It is essential to lose the mind"

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    CA
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    Volunteers?

    It would be great if a few people from this side could regularly check out swordforum.com and post some threads or responses that address Bagua swordsmanship in particular. It would be very helpful.

    Doug M

  9. #69
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    Jan 1970
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    Akron, Ohio USA
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    920
    Hello Uncle.

    May is the celebration of birthdays here in Akron--a couple of May 5ths. Come visit soon and we will include you in the birthday celebration along with some training.

    Later.
    "Its better to build bridges rather than dig holes but occasionally you have to dig a few holes to build the foundation of a strong bridge."

    "Traditional Northern Chinese Martial Arts are all Sons of the Same Mother," Liu Yun Qiao

  10. #70
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    Jan 1970
    Location
    Palmer,AK,USA
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    Unhappy

    Bob, I really wish I could but winter is finally relinquishing its hold up here and its a pretty busy time. Give my best to all in Ohio. BTW, who's B-days coming up, mines on the 6th, big 50 if I'd have known I'd live this long i'd have treated myself better.
    • Later Uncle Bob
    "It is essential to lose the mind"

  11. #71
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    Jan 1970
    Location
    Akron, Ohio USA
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    920
    Well, mine (51 and you can still play baji but youth sure does have its advantages.) and Rob.

    Doors always open. I understand you guys out there have some really neat places for fishing. I drove out there once from Kentucky and fell in love with Arkansas. I was at Arkansas State University.

    PA got some great trout streams in the mountains and I'll be there soon.

    So much for bagua sword---I'll take it with me and slay trout.

    LOL.

    Later.
    "Its better to build bridges rather than dig holes but occasionally you have to dig a few holes to build the foundation of a strong bridge."

    "Traditional Northern Chinese Martial Arts are all Sons of the Same Mother," Liu Yun Qiao

  12. #72
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    Big knife for big fish?

    Bagua dao used for cutting and gutting fish...are you hunting Megaladons?

    Doug M

  13. #73
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    Imagine what I do with a set of deerhorn knives running through the mountains of central Pennsylvania.
    "Its better to build bridges rather than dig holes but occasionally you have to dig a few holes to build the foundation of a strong bridge."

    "Traditional Northern Chinese Martial Arts are all Sons of the Same Mother," Liu Yun Qiao

  14. #74
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    Watch out for that multi-blade thing!

    Hunting Yeti, eh? Well, I prefer to believe that, opposed to the psycho-typical slasher image I have of you right now. I mean, I certainly have a different image of the mountains of central Pennslyvania (given that I have never been to that part), but if Hollywood has not misrepresented the stereotypical mountain, knife-carrying maniac (when has that ever happened?), my image is right on.

    Anyway, thanks for the humor here.

    By the way, I should tell you that, with you description, "[i]magine what I do with a set of deerhorn knives running through the mountains," I picture you running full blast with your blades drawn (i.e. Japanese animation style) in a crazed yet determined frenzy through the trees and nature's ground clutter. What I imagine you doing can only be described as truly free from moral and social limitations.

    Gosh, what an image...keep it up!

    Doug M

  15. #75
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    Akron, Ohio USA
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    Well, come visit! Although I live in Akron, Ohio, I was born and raised in southwestern Pennsylvania (Steeltown, Monessen). Took my leaving Pennsylvania to see the beauty of its mountains and trout streams. Noticed a lot of it when I traveled to Jou Tsung Hwa's Tai Chi Farm in the late 1980s.

    STate College area has some of the best trout fiishing you'll find anywhere. After a tough day in the stream ou sit down to a beer and steak in the local restaurant. A river runs through the middle of the town. There's more to life than martial arts!

    Anyway, enough of the humor. Trout season is almost up us and we can take the art to the mountain too.
    "Its better to build bridges rather than dig holes but occasionally you have to dig a few holes to build the foundation of a strong bridge."

    "Traditional Northern Chinese Martial Arts are all Sons of the Same Mother," Liu Yun Qiao

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