Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[The Willow Sword]

Your perspective is that i am blaming the school and joe for losing the challenge match. and i keep stating that i am not, ive stated it many times in the past and will continue to here until you get it through your thick skull. i could care less what you think about my "attitude", yours is one of a mightier and higher than thou because you feel you train in something that precedes all other styles and systems, it is the arrogance that permeates that school and the quiet arrogance and mightier than though attitude that most of the sd'ers here seem to exude(with the exception of JP who has been pretty straight forward and at times understanding of the dilemas and controversies that Sd is riddled with in the TCMA and SHAOLIN realm)

if you are going to make a perspective based on something i have stated and your perspective goes to the opposite of what i have stated then its no wonder you get the 3rd degree from me because i AM tired of repeating myself on the subject. its like trying to get a 3rd grader to understand that 3+3=6 and they keep saying " so 3+3=0.

oh and KC will not be able to set up this "meeting", he doesnt have enough pull and sin the wouldnt waste his time doing so anyway, i mean when you think about it why would he? since people seem to think that he should be treated like the president of the united states then why would the president meet with a lowly citizen such as myself to answer questions about a lineage that from all "perspectives and opinions" is allegedly fabricated?


TWS

[Baqualin]

SO okay if a student joins the sd school and goes through the curriculum and has this broad array of styles and systems that he/she is learning, and gets to that point where they are learning hsing i from you, that student says " you know i really like hsing i and i want to learn more of that and specialize in that? you mean to tell me that you are going to tell that student to go elsewhere to master it? comeone guys i am not twisting peoples words you are basically saying that you do not have any sort of mastery program there for students who get to a certain level in your school and want to specialize.

dont give me this mastery is within stuff okay, we all know the proverbial wisdom here. we have all eaten at enough chinese resteraunts and had tons of fortune cookies to all be proverbial masters. i am talking about actually LEARNING a SYSTEM of Chinese martial arts that YOU GUYS claim to teach in your curriculum. instead so much material is taught out and one moves quickly through the material, then there are the seminars for whatever new special secret form or system that everyone jumps on the bandwagon to learn, yet you all have to still adhere to the curriculum that is set out to attain what you guys call "MASTER" at 5th degree black belt, and what is it that distinction brings with it? is it mastery in any system that is taught? no it is a designation stating that one has gone through a whole slew of forms and systems but no real specialization in those forms or systems. its all a jumbled mess in my opinion. and what about Eric Smith who is the "internal specialist" in the school or bob green who is the "monkey specialist" or whomever else in the senior masters category who have "specialized" in something?
if you claim to teach out a system a WHOLE system like Hsing i is or a WHOLE system like Bagua is ,,OR Tai chi,, then be prepared to have a FOCUS on those systems for those students who are wanting to learn those.

you know in the days when i was a loyalist to this school my idea had been to intially learn the bagua and the tai chi and hsing i and "specialize" in that and teach that, since these are the 3 internals that have a relationship to one another, i figured that this would be a lifetime of material and would take a while to master and become proficient enough to actually teach it to others as well as be formidable in the systems. It is actually what attracted me to SD in the very beginning, that they taught out these systems and that is what i wanted to learn. but i was told that i had to go through the curriculum to get to those that were taught out at higher levels in SD. so i bought into it and actually, seminars were held that taught out bagu and hsing i as well as tai chi seperate from the curriculum BEFORE i got my 1st degree black belt. by the time i tested for 2nd degree i already had most of the material for second degree to test for 3rd, because of all the extra seminars i took.

so you guys mean to tell me that with all these systems that you have and that you teach out that you have NO-ONE who could specialize and teach out the sd versions of these systems to people who want to learn it souley? i mean most of your schools have a tai chi program seperate from the regular sd curriculum, so whay not with bagua and hsing i? or even the mantis that you claim to have everything on?

TWS

We do......you should have stuck around.....It's not a Tai Chi Program....it's an internal program.....white sashes start with first 2 circles of classical Pakua...it focuses on all three.....not just learning forms either. Also the Masters at my school seem to like Pakua and Hsing I...just ask my sternum and ribs

[BentMonk]

Your perspective is that i am blaming the school and joe for losing the challenge match. and i keep stating that i am not, ive stated it many times in the past and will continue to here until you get it through your thick skull. i could care less what you think about my "attitude", yours is one of a mightier and higher than thou because you feel you train in something that precedes all other styles and systems, it is the arrogance that permeates that school and the quiet arrogance and mightier than though attitude that most of the sd'ers here seem to exude(with the exception of JP who has been pretty straight forward and at times understanding of the dilemas and controversies that Sd is riddled with in the TCMA and SHAOLIN realm)

if you are going to make a perspective based on something i have stated and your perspective goes to the opposite of what i have stated then its no wonder you get the 3rd degree from me because i AM tired of repeating myself on the subject. its like trying to get a 3rd grader to understand that 3+3=6 and they keep saying " so 3+3=0.
TWS

Dude, I have never came across in any of my posts as high and mighty or arrogant. I have posted many times that I feel SD's history is more legend than fact. I have also stated that this is not unique to SD. I simply stated that I didn't appreciate your attitude toward me over a simple observation. Yet you still persist with the petty insults and antagonism. What I typed is my opinion. We disagree. So what. Why continue the insults? The mature approach would be to re-direct the exchanges to another aspect of the topic at hand. Whatever floats your boat man.

[Baqualin]

but my heart wasnt in that fight because of the rug being pulled out from under me by those i trusted and followed

[BentMonk]

but my heart wasnt in that fight because of the rug being pulled out from under me by those i trusted and followed

That was EXACTLY what I was getting at. Thanks.

[tattooedmonk]

Posters on this thread present all manner of facts, opinions, and questions relating to the topic at hand. Insulting someone because you do not like what that person says about the topic will not accomplish anything but making yourself look bad. So how's about we have a civilized discussion and leave out the name calling.

if you are stupid i will call you stupid ...if you are an idiot i will tell you that you are an idiot ..and if you are full of sh*t then I will tell you that you are full of sh*t ...these are not insults these are the truth based on the facts ...if you were wearing a bikini and doing a pole dance with dollars in your panties I would call you a striper... quit crying suck it up and move on

[BM2]

Gene asked to tone it done on here. It is not a right to post here but a privilege from KFO.
Jerry "The King" Lawyer was a wrestler that I watched on Sat. mornings. He had a line that I liked, "Son...Everyone has a right to be ugly... but your abusing your right "
Some on here are abusing their right to be stupid.

[tattooedmonk]

It has a tradition, but the tradition is not Shaolin's tradition. SD men do not do keep with REAL shaolin when it comes to forms and technique.

How a person does techniques is not superficial. The Philosophy is only half of the equation.

It is not shaolin because the SD forms that I have seem, are not perform in the way that is generally done in kung fu. I such lack of understanding in some cases that it made me cringe. It isn't a difference in flavor, it is just poorly done.

Do you really think I know nothing about Kung fu? My Sigung agrees with me. He has over 60 years of experience in kung fu. My sifu has close to 30 years of experience and his agrees. I spoke to other sifu with a lot of experience and they agree.

Now, only Chinese know about Shaolin and kung fu? Is your GM Korean and he learned in Indonesia?

I teach karate? Are you saying that TSPK is karate? You asked a question, but I understand the semantics of it. Be careful! This is a friendly warning. Show a video to any master of your GM and my sigung doing forms and techniques and see which they think REAL kung fu.

On you GM website, it has shaolin karate

If forms and techniques are not a big part of what a style is, then what is?

So what is shaolin's tradition then?..I do not see that any of you are monks or priests or are even buddhist ,taoist or confucists...

the forms are from chinses origin they have evolved with the times..as for techniques how do you know?? What techniques have you seen???

if you take the techniques out of your pretty little forms they only work with a cooperative opponent..with ours it works with the most uncooperative opponent....

doing forms for performance ( which is what most of you do ) and doing forms for fighting/ application ( which is what most of us do ) is completely diffferent ..

we are not here to be posers we are here to be real martial artists..

that is the difference..

and if this mean that we do it wrong ...well then I guess we do it wrong ...but I would rather do it wrong for the right reasons than do it right for the wrong reasons

I asked very simple questions and the only one you could answer was that you were not chinese..now answer the questions or STFU!!!

you probably do a form of modern wushu then

[Flying-Monkey]

if you are stupid i will call you stupid ...if you are an idiot i will tell you that you are an idiot ..and if you are full of sh*t then I will tell you that you are full of sh*t ...these are not insults these are the truth based on the facts ...if you were wearing a bikini and doing a pole dance with dollars in your panties I would call you a striper... quit crying suck it up and move on

Dude, you need to be banned. It is not because our opinions are different. It is because you do not know how to express your opinion without insulting someone.

Maybe, this will help:

Instead of calling someone stupid full of sh!t or an idiot, you can say they are misinformed, terribly mistaken or just plain wrong.

[Flying-Monkey]

Are you calling Tai Shing Pek Kwar modern wushu?

[tattooedmonk]

Dude, you need to be banned. It is not because our opinions are different. It is because you do not know how to express your opinion without insulting someone.

Maybe, this will help:

Instead of calling someone stupid full of sh!t or an idiot, you can say they are misinformed, terribly mistaken or just plain wrong.

whatever ..... I have said all this time and time again ...

you all need to get an education and quit your stupid, idiotic and full of sh*t banter about what is and what is not Shaolin .

..because you all have no clue...

you all take this internet Sh*t way too serious and do not take Kung fu Or shaolin Serious enough

...or else you would see that SD is Shaolin ,It is Kung fu ,and has just as much legitimacy as any other form of chinese martial arts...

and if you want to whine and cry PM gene ching and complain, quit doing martial arts and take up knitting...

because you obviously do not have what it take to be a martial artists

[Radhnoti]

RD - "Why do newbies come here and brag about SD's history? Maybe it should not be taught if it's clearly not true?"

Marketing, in my opinion, is necessary for a successful school.

RD - "My experiance with Indo systems is minor, however I have seen enough to say the above comment may very well be correct. It is also the opinion of someone I do respect and has the experiance to judge."

kc - "If this person you Respect thinks SD looks like Karate I suppose you mean Japanese when you say that then you should reconsider who you respect."

RD - "Not karate, the Indo stuff."

If it's from Indonesia and held on to the "kuntao" classification, the teachers/students still consider it "pure" Chinese martial arts. If it's called "silat" it may or may not have Chinese influence...many teachers of Chinese systems caved to societal pressures and simply reclassified themselves as "silat" which was the generic classification for Indonesian martial arts.
Shaolin-do literature plainly states that it took on at least the outward aspects of karate...so SD WAS changed in Indonesia. SD history just kind of briefly mentions that the art SOLELY existed in Indonesia for an entire generation...the generation that CONSTRUCTED the art/system. I'm sure GM Sin's personal stories touch on life in Bandung, but I've really never heard about it.

[Flying-Monkey]

Yeah, keep talking sh!t

[The Willow Sword]

but my heart wasnt in that fight because of the rug being pulled out from under me by those i trusted and followed

no it wasnt, but it doesnt mean that i didnt do the best that i could and did not fight as hard as i could,considering. you take that statement to mean that i am blaming joe and the sd school for me losing that fight, and it is just not true. what i blame joe for is the fact that he told me i would have support and representation to the match and at the last minute he withdrew it. to me that shows a lack of integrity and honor.
Lorenz san pedro was to accompany me at the behest of joe at the time(this was way before lorenz screwed himself by getting involved with that 14 year old at the school). do you understand now where i am coming from? i didnt ask joe or lorenz or the school to fight my battles for me, believe me i fight my own. but when your teacher intially gives you support and then takes it away with no real explanation other than "hey you are on your own with this one". it makes me feel like i was never really welcome or respected at that school anyway. that is all in depth that i am going to go on the subject, so hopefully you can get the drift now instead of coming up with these opinions that go opposite of what i have been telling you all along.

believe me when i tell you now, my loyalties are to #1 here and if and when i ever decide to spar or fight again it will be on my terms and not relying on some organization or anyone. that was my lesson that day and i learned it well.
TWS

[Flying-Monkey]

Just by reading your posts, even SD guys can see that you don't know what you are talking about.