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Thread: 2008 Beijing Olympics

  1. #1
    John D Guest

    2008 Olympics....WC Competition?????

    Hello all,

    Some serious thought should have started years ago on the question "will China host the 2008 Olympics and introduce Wushu".......? Now that WC has been accepted (1998) into the large realm of the PRC Wushu system, what should/could the WC competition categories consists of?

    So far there has been some Chi Sau activities in the PRC. Also, some WC people got smashed up in the San Sau full contact fights....but not a whole lot overall!!!

    Yip Ching mentioned to me two years ago that he was hoping that the WC family could field a San Sau (open hand) team. Yip Chun is pushing for a chi sau tournament format.

    Personally, I cannot see a strict standard on any of the WC hand or the WC weapon sets! I also hate to see WC people beating on each other for glory and story!

    My "4-3X5" Competition Proposal

    I wish to propose a demanding "reflex based" competition system in the following four categories of skill (Chi Sau, San Sau "distance", Kwan "staff", and Do) be adopted. Forget judging the sets, there are too many differences to define and judge.

    In each of the four(4) categories, the competitor faces three(3) randomly picked attacks from five(5) different attackers (not other WC competitors). Hence the name "4-3X5" is born.

    The competitor can then demonstrate his/her reaction counters (three-five motions) against various attackers. Judges, will know in advance what type of attack is coming and can look for applied skill. All attacks are at 90-100% speed but not full power-"pulled".

    With five judges in each competition category - the high and low scores are thrown out, while the middle three judged scores are averaged. It will be necessary to selected a sizable group of non-competing (as neutral) attackers in each of the four competition categories to provide the (randomly selected) attacks. Having "null" or neutral attackers will eliminate most (but not all) of the petty ugliness that is expected between egos, school, and assocation.

    Each competitor is judged like the Olympic Ice their final total scores, not by destroying others in the WC family.

    In each of the assigned attacks, the Attacker will have the option to use a one count (one direct punch/kick) or two count (two moves.... a left feint followed by a right hook/kick) attack. Allowing more than two count combination attacks by the attacker gets far too dangerous and bloody.

    Yes, I am aware that selecting neutral attackers maybe difficult. However, selecting attackers from other arts (especially attacking arts)is a possibility. Designated Chi sau attackers can stay within the WC family.

    My thoughts are posted....assuming that something WC is needed for the Olympics and that China will be hosting the Olympics in 2008 - let this forum have your constructive thoughts.....? These maybe "BIG" assumptions indeed but they are real possibilities!!!!!!

    Regards to all,
    John DiVirgilio - Hawaii

  2. #2
    JasBourne Guest

    I'll probably get flamed, but...

    I don't approve of 'sport' wing chun. I feel that constraining a conceptual combat art dilutes it, and opens the door for the proliferation of 'McKwoon' type schools, leading to a degeneration of the art itself over time.

    I feel that this is exactly what has happened to technique-oriented MA disciplines like karate and tae kwan do, and I don't want to see WC go the same route...

    Guess I'm just a hard-core traditionalist, with a touch of elitism :D


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  3. #3
    fei_jai Guest

    I agree with JasBourne

    Wing Chun is for realistic self defence. Once we start down the dark path... errr... I mean, once we train for anything else other than realistic self defence, we easily lose sight of what we originally set out to achieve.

    Besides, although China will probably include wushu as a demonstration sport, it's unlikely that Wing Chun will be apart of it. In my view, Wing Chun and WuShu are two completely different art forms and have never seen the two linked in any way. Anyhow, to be part of the Olympics, I believe there must be an international body that governs that particular sport. Wing Chun is far from having a single body that even affiliates all lineages of Wing Chun.

    Another point is that the sport has to appeal, and be accepted by the general populace. I don't think Wing Chun is as popular, or as well known as TaeKwonDo. And remember... the Olympics is about money, not sport.


  4. #4
    mikey Guest
    Wing Chun and competition are as compatible
    as military and intelligence!
    when people train to score points instead of
    destroying your opponent,you dilute their fighting
    ability. What happens if you are walking home with your chi sao trophy,and you are mugged by some people who don't know what the rules are?
    call time out?
    this sounds funny,but it is definitely a serious
    problem with MANY "sport" martial artists. I have more than once fought or sparred with some
    sport martial artist who just couldn't deal with
    the real thing. The old adage "you fight like you train" is very true.Sport martial artists train
    to score points and please judges,not to fight
    for their lives. If you don't believe me,take
    an afternoon cruising TKD schools or Karate schools.Choose the ones with a lot of trophies
    displayed everywhere.Pretend you are interested in joining and watch them. I mean REALLY watch them.Are they training to fight for their lives,
    or for the next heavily regulated "full contact"
    point match? you be the judge.
    I see no reason to pull the fangs out of a
    devastating fighting form to collect trophies.
    If you want trophies,take TKD.
    so there! :p
    jees,what's next, the 15 minute cardio-chi sao work out?(featuring Billy Blanks,of course!)

  5. #5
    mikey Guest


    you go girl! :)

  6. #6
    mun hung Guest

    Olympics? I hope not!

    Just the thought of seeing Wing Chun in the Olympics as a sporting event makes me sick to my stomach. Of course it will all boil down to dollar signs. It always does. We can only imagine what they would do to the art. I think it's the last thing that should be done to promote Wing Chun. The art will grow on it's own without anyones help. Hate to sound selfish, but I'm actually quite satisfied with the idea of studying something that not everyone knows about. Good for me - sucks to be you! ;)

  7. #7
    John D Guest

    Olympics........Yeap it is hard to believe .....Honk...Honk....!

    Hello All,

    Well folks, don't get hit by the runaway truck speeding down the street, but like it or not WC is now considered a Wushu art in the PRC. If (if?) China hosts the Olympics, Wushu will be added into the stew of competition.

    Like the rest of you, I can't see WC competing in any of the forms comptetions. From what I gathered from gossip...Chi Sau WILL be one WC Olympic competition category. The San Sau is already established but the early WC competitors did poorly...sad.

    I pray that all the young & older WC people on this forum and elsewhere will find a way to enjoy this great art despite the growing WC commercialization.

    I am still thinking of how to approach the whole Olympics matter.....

    Regards to all,
    John DiVirgilio

  8. #8
    GLW Guest
    Not exactly.

    The IOC (International Olympic Committee) has recently recognized the IWuF (International Wushu Federation) as a governing organization for setting up Wushu as an Olympic event.

    China has put in a bid for the 2008 Olympics. Should they win the bid, Wushu will be an Olympic event then. If not, it may happen but not a sure thing.

    The current events are Taolu (form) and Sanshou.

    The Taolu division as it stands right not include the International Compulsory events (Changquan, Nanquan, 42 Taijiquan, Broadsword, Straightsword, NanDao, Staff, Southern Staff, Spear, 42 Taiji Sword. There are open events but they are typically more for show than for medals in international competition.

    Between now and 2008, there may be a change in one or two of the routines, but I wouldn't bet on it. The last set of compulsories lasted around 10 years. The current routines include 5 routines that will be totally official in 2003...they are just out of the box for competition this year and the old and new routines can be used this year only. The remaining 5 routines are less than 5 years old and not widely practiced so they will probably be around through 2008...unless they change them in 2003...doubtful since the new routines were started and talked about from 1997...and the training materials just came out a month ago...(turn around time is around 4 years to develop a new set of routines.).

    Sanshou has the standard Sanshou rules. In fact, the Sanshou rules were developed by China over the last 10 years.

    Team memaber tryouts for the Sanshou team is not limited to any style. You just have to be able to fight according to the full contact Sanshou rules.

    While they may add Chi Sau as an event in China competitions (unlikely at the national and definitely unlikely at the international level), keep in mind that Taijiquan has been a recognized part of China's wushu approach for years and there is still no big venue for Tui Shou (Push hands) even though some competitions in China have it as an event (more of a exhibition event). I would suspect that Chi Sau would be handled the same way.

  9. #9
    old jong Guest
    I hope that wing chun will never become a sport!I'm sure it would be the beginning of the end for our system. If you want sport...Try some ping pong instead. :eek:

    C'est la vie!

  10. #10
    edziak Guest
    I totaly agree. To turn a martial art into a sport is to turn a solem and ancient tradition into a ****ing contest.

  11. #11
    GLW Guest
    Having seen Chi Sau competitions, I don't care for this avenue of competition.

    In its best form, Chi Sau is fun and a training exercise. In its worst, one or both parties let their desire for face run away with them and the ego turns it into stiff, too much power, no technique, slap fests. Not a pretty sight.

    If people want to test themselves in fighting, there are several ways to do it.

    First and most hardcore is to put yourself into a situation where you get into a number of streetfights. That proves things pretty quickly...but can cost you your life, health, or freedom.

    Second is underground events. This is only marginally safer than the first option. You are a little less likely to end in jail...but you are almost always supporting organized crime and betting. A reaaly good thing to do.

    The third is things like NHB, Full Contact, UFC, etc....

    This would include Sanshou according to IWuF rules as well as any full contact event. Without this tru confrontation against people who do NOT do your style, you never really know how many of your techniques work.

    The complaint about things like Sanshou requiring gloves is a moot point. Both sides wear what. Ever try fighting in a cold climate in gloves...not that different. Also, if you are going to fight in such an event, I would guess that you would train with the gloves way before showing up. So, that old argument about the gloves and grabbing...sorry, it doesn't hold much water. (Shuai Jiao people grab to throw...and they do well in Sanshou and other full contact venues).

    Personally, I don't care for the UFC stuff. The soft canvas floor with just a bit of padding makes it a slight advantage for the grappling style while making it a bit more difficult for the striker and especially the kicker to use their techniques (twisted knees are a good bet on that surface). Also, the cage with vertical walls provides the grappler with a pinning surface on the floor and the walls...this is not a big advantage but it is definitely not a situation where all is equal...but those are the rules.

    If you enter those venues, you train for those venues first...and as they say "You pays your money, you takes your chances".

    If people want to focus totally on a fighting art and keep it as such, they MUST fight somewhere. Legal or illegal is the bottom line...and legal does have enough choices now days.

    To quote Nike: "Just Do It"

  12. #12
    South Paw Guest

    2008 Beijing Olympics

    The emblem resembles a person doing "taiji" (Tai Ch'i), symbolizing gracefulness, harmony, vitality and mobility as well as unity, cooperation, exchange and development. It also resembles the shape of a traditional Chinese artifact known as the "China Heart Unit." The logo was designed by Chen Shaohua, a noted designer in Shenzhen and one of the 13 official emblem designers appointed by BOBICO, and well-known painter Han Meilin, who modified the design by using a calligraphy brush. Kan Tai-Keung, a famous designer in Hong Kong, also contributed to the designing of the emblem. web page

    South Paw

  13. #13
    L D S Guest

    Kick It

    web page


  14. #14
    HopGar Guest
    if only we could read chinese, Ling. :o ;)


    "He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Portland, OR

    Bejing Summer Olympics

    I have been trying to keep up to date with the addition of WuShu into the 2008 Summer Olympics held in Bejing. Up to this point all I have read is that it is still being submitted for approval. From my low standing in the world and martial community, I would hope that one of you who may have better connections, can shed some light as to the current situation.

    A man has only one death. That death may be as weighty as Mt. Tai, or it may be as light as a goose feather. It all depends upon the way he uses it....
    ~Sima Qian

    Master pain, or pain will master you.

    "Just do your practice. Who cares if someone else's practice is not traditional, or even fake? What does that have to do with you?"
    ~Gene "The Crotch Master" Ching

    You know you want to click me!!

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