The general American public's perception of martial arts

[unkokusai]

It's obvious that a lot of you know very little about CMA. I have no idea why, but I'm not going to worry about it anymore.

Yes you are. That's why you are here, to repeat that as many times as you can each day.

[lunghushan]

If you want to know ironic, then search for "I Choke You" on Bullshido for "mat herpes". I mentioned before about diseases on there like hep-c and stuff, and he totally got on my case.

Now he's got it from doing BJJ. If that isn't ironic, I don't know what is.

[Kapten Klutz]

About sanshou and open hand techniques, here's how I kind of see it and I wonder if people think it makes sense.

Where I train we learn open hand techniques, practice knees and elbows and all that, but most of the sparring is with 12 oz or fatter gloves, no elbows and knees, and the rules are supposed to make it possible to compete in competitions with representatives of many styles and schools. Basically kickboxing plus takedowns.

I think thats fine, because there are a lot of lessons to be learned in that format, even if you don't use all the techniques you train in the drills. The two kinds of training can complement each other. I really think that having practiced sparring with gloves will help my chances if I ever have to fight without gloves. Among other things you get used to trying to sense what the other guy is about to do. We do also occasionally spar lightly with open hands, but I don't think anyone there uses knees or elbows on each other ever, except as a very lightly marked almost hit.

Anyway I really don't see the problem with sanshou, but then I'm new to CMA so I might be missing something.

[lunghushan]

Was that random... or is it just me? And how is it us who 'try to raise ourselves up' by putting you down?

"they don't allow shoes on the mats and I'll get VD"

No, it wasn't random. Do you read the posts on here, or what? Wood Dragon castigated me about the mat herpes comment, and I was pointing out that somebody else castigated me about it and he wound up getting mat herpes.

Anyway, whatever. Why do you care what I think about sanshou anyway?

[lunghushan]

Anyway I really don't see the problem with sanshou, but then I'm new to CMA so I might be missing something.

Well it seems to reinforce bad habits. Most people don't spar with the techniques in their forms. Why don't they spar with the techniques in their forms? Because they never learn to spar with the techniques in their forms.

If all you ever spar with or fight with is kickboxing then what will you use in a real fight? Kickboxing.

If that's the case, then why do CMA forms at all? And I'm not saying you should do CMA forms, just that if you're studying the forms then why waste your time on basic kickboxing sparring?

Over and over again, you go to any tournament, you see people doing forms competitions, and then sparring with kickboxing.

They don't seem to know how to use their martial arts at all.

[Kapten Klutz]

If all you ever spar with or fight with is kickboxing then what will you use in a real fight? Kickboxing.

If that's the case, then why do CMA forms at all? And I'm not saying you should do CMA forms, just that if you're studying the forms then why waste your time on basic kickboxing sparring?

Well yeah, this is precisely the issue that my school is about, developing a constructive relationship between sport fighting and self defense fighting. It's this interaction that is the focus of interest, finding ways to make the two strengthen each other.

Of course you're right that if you usually spar with kickboxing then if a really hectic situation arises you're likely to revert to the techniques you've executed most often. So if I understand your position, you would see the sanshou bit as detracting from the traditional bit.

The thing is that not doing the sport bit also means you miss something important. I mean you can see the sanshou as a stage on the way. A lot of people come in, like me and aren't fighters at all. Sanshou is a way to at least somewhat taste what basic fighting is like. It's a step towards a long term goal. (Of course some people take it to a high level and don't just treat it as a step to something else)

So I think you could say that you can better understand what your particular art is about — see what's unique about it — if you've practiced a common framework like sanshou. And perhaps you can also feed the TMA principles into the sanshou fighting. It won't look like the TMA, but there will be an influence.

And like I said we do sometimes have more traditional sparring, it's just that I think they don't like to set us free with that too early because we are still working towards that level of control. I don't want another beginner aiming chops at my throat in sparring. The more advanced guys can do that kind of stuff without injuring each other, but I feel better keeping those techniques within non-alive drills for now.

[unkokusai]

Well it seems to reinforce bad habits. Most people don't spar with the techniques in their forms. Why don't they spar with the techniques in their forms? Because they never learn to spar with the techniques in their forms.

If all you ever spar with or fight with is kickboxing then what will you use in a real fight? Kickboxing.

If that's the case, then why do CMA forms at all? And I'm not saying you should do CMA forms, just that if you're studying the forms then why waste your time on basic kickboxing sparring?

Over and over again, you go to any tournament, you see people doing forms competitions, and then sparring with kickboxing.

They don't seem to know how to use their martial arts at all.

You are an absolute moron.

[lunghushan]

Well yeah, this is precisely the issue that my school is about, developing a constructive relationship between sport fighting and self defense fighting. It's this interaction that is the focus of interest, finding ways to make the two strengthen each other.

Of course you're right that if you usually spar with kickboxing then if a really hectic situation arises you're likely to revert to the techniques you've executed most often. So if I understand your position, you would see the sanshou bit as detracting from the traditional bit.

The thing is that not doing the sport bit also means you miss something important. I mean you can see the sanshou as a stage on the way. A lot of people come in, like me and aren't fighters at all. Sanshou is a way to at least somewhat taste what basic fighting is like. It's a step towards a long term goal.

And like I said we do sometimes have more traditional sparring, it's just that I think they don't like to set us free with that too early because we are still working towards that level of control.

I guess it's a difference in philosophy. I guess to me sanshou and sanda the way they are done now, along with wushu, represent everything wrong with CMA and how it's changed since the Communist influence over the past 15 years or so.

I don't think people really realize how things used to be, maybe they forgot or maybe they never knew.

The fact that a lot of teachers will teach traditional forms, without teaching applications, but then say that sanshou and sanda are real fighting, is what is the most disturbing.

[unkokusai]

What is most disturbing is that you have no idea about what 'forms' are about and have never been in an actual physical confrontation in your life, and are trying to pass your assumptions off as experience.

[lunghushan]

I mean, my first MA teacher made a big distinction between boxing gloves and 'gong fu' gloves. 'Gong fu' gloves were used at 'gong fu' tournaments and were open fingered. They were not closed fingered, because closed fingered everybody knew you can't do 'gong fu' techniques.

How do you form your hand into a crane's beak with boxing gloves? You don't. How do you form your hand into a mantis hand with boxing gloves? You don't.

So I never sparred with boxing gloves. It was a big deal to go down to Kim Pacific and get gloves. 'Gong fu' gloves.

Then, I can't remember exactly when, but about 5 years ago or so, was when it seemed like people started talking about sanshou and sanda as a sport.

But they didn't use open fingered gloves. They didn't use 'gong fu' techniques. They used basic kickboxing with some throws. It wasn't CMA, it was absolutely nothing.

So if you wonder why I say that sanshou is stupid, it is because to me, it represents everything that is wrong with the Communists and martial arts, and for some reason people have embraced this Chinese wushu / sanda / sanshou thing as being CMA. And it is NOT CMA.

It was designed by the Chinese government to control the masses and take martiality OUT of CMA. So your embracing that is like embracing your own defeat.

[unkokusai]

So if you wonder why I say that sanshou is stupid, it is because.

It's because you are a moron who has never been in a fight and who read a few magazines and then formed this ****-eyed attitude that you have decided to bother everyone with.

[lunghushan]

It is so much nicer not to read unkokusai's posts. It shows he posted but I have no idea what vindictive crap he's spewing.

I should have used this ignore feature before.

[unkokusai]

He's lying. He can read my posts but is pretending not to.

No big difference, really.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Here you go, Unkokusai

What is most disturbing is that you have no idea about what 'forms' are about and have never been in an actual physical confrontation in your life, and are trying to pass your assumptions off as experience.

He speaks the truth, Lung...

Oh! and STFU n00b

[yutyeesam]

It appears that Neilhytholt, lunghushan, Andreas Zap, and wushunut are all the same person who've been banned from other forums, such as The Seattle Times and the Yang Family Discussion Board.

You guys have to admit, he's got good baiting tactics.

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