"sticking body"

[lunghushan]

It once again becomes apparent that you have no idea what you're talking about.

I guess not. When I took wrestling it was 90% ground and maybe 10% takedowns.

I have to admit wrestling isn't something I was ever that interested in. I only took it more than usual because otherwise I'd have to play badminton. Our classes were taught by the team wrestling coach, and our team was one of the top teams in CA for whatever that is worth, but I wasn't on the team.

Whatever submission wrestling they were doing at that school, AMC, looked like bad judo groundfighting so I didn't bother with it. But Pankration is probably something different -- I have no idea.

When I took judo it was around 70% throws, 30% ground fighting.

All I can say is that Judo seemed to do a lot more standup than any place that claimed to do wrestling I've ever been. Even BJJ is supposed to be a lot more ground fighting, like 90% or something.

[Black Jack II]

That's fine if you don't like ground grappling. You have made that apparent for awhile now it seems. But I would at least look into a effective take down defense to add to your toolbox.

Find a wrestler and work the sprawl into your training methods. Great defense.

[lunghushan]

That's fine if you don't like ground grappling. You have made that apparent for awhile now it seems. But I would at least look into a effective take down defense to add to your toolbox.

Find a wrestler and work the sprawl into your training methods. Great defense.

Sprawl is not very useful because it totally puts you off balance. You are then relying on your opponent's body to keep you up, which is why sprawl usually winds up on the ground.

We used to train takedown defenses all the time when I was in KF as a teenager because we assumed that most of our fights would be with jocks. And I don't recommend sprawl.

[namron]

liked those bjj v kickboxer clips.

good example of doin yourself in by trying to hold on to a bad position, no leverage/position for an effective crank or choke. Guy on the bottom possibly thought that he was doing ok, but was just buying time allowing the chap on top to set his position.

funny thing is this thread started with talk of sticky body, how muck stickier can you get where your opponent effectively traps both his own arms for u!

luv those knees from side control

[Black Jack II]

Sprawl is not very useful because it totally puts you off balance

Oh christ bro, then you really don't understand the sprawl. It's one of they best takedown defenses on the planet. It allows you to counter the shoot and put yourself into a much better position for counter strikes.

And I don't recommend sprawl.

Well, once you understand it, you will.

We used to train takedown defenses all the time when I was in KF

KF in general is known for having horrible takedown defenses.

anyway....hope you pick up the sprawl....but UFC is on soon. Fight Night!

[lunghushan]

Oh christ bro, then you really don't understand the sprawl. It's one of they best takedown defenses on the planet. It allows you to counter the shoot and put yourself into a much better position for counter strikes.

KF in general is known for having horrible takedown defenses.

anyway....hope you pick up the sprawl....but UFC is on soon. Fight Night!

Dude, I took Judo ... sprawl is nothing special.

It doesn't allow you to counter the shoot. When you put both legs behind you, the only thing holding you up is your opponent. They can take you down extremely easily just by holding onto you and falling on the ground.

Whatever. I was showing a WC guy basic takedown defenses a while back and his eyes were bugging out of his head. Pretty funny stuff his reaction to extremely basic maneuvers.

Bottom line is something is extremely wrong with most KF schools out there because they don't seem to know how to fight anymore. I have no idea why that is, but it's probably because of forms factories where they make their $$$ off of teaching forms instead of fighting skill.

If they actually taught the students how to fight then the students would leave instead of taking useless forms for years and years -- I guess that's their rationale for doing that.

[jon]

I was showing a WC guy basic takedown defenses a while back and his eyes were bugging out of his head. Pretty funny stuff his reaction to extremely basic maneuvers.

Interesting, even my elderly, traditional as can be Taijiquan instructor uses sprawls for defense against a shoot - he has never learnt to wrestle.
What would you recommend as a defense to a shoot?

[Black Jack II]

It doesn't allow you to counter the shoot

That comment is so ill-informed I don't no where to start. It's the reason some here will **** all over what you call experiance. That statement does not add up at all to empircal evidence.

They can take you down extremely easily just by holding onto you and falling on the ground.

See statement above and reapply. I am suprised none of the dedicated grapplers have not blasted all over this statement already.

You know since you did judo, which btw I have never seen teach the sprawl inless for some reason they went against the grain and incorpated it from western wrestling, that the sprawl is something you don't just slide into and then sit on your hunches, it is hands down the best defense against a fully commited shoot and can be learned very fast to turn the pressure around on the attacker.

But whatever......man

[lunghushan]

But whatever......man

Bottom line is BJJ is a take off of Judo, which is a take off of Jujitsu and most grapplers haven't the slightest clue as to how CMA would handle the situation. (Then again, most CMAists have no clue either).

There's only one situation where you might want to use sprawl and that's when they have hold of both your feet at the same time and is an extreme emergency situation that is handled better in other ways.

The ironic thing is you guys really think MMA is good just because of UFCs/Pride. You know, McDonalds is like the most popular restaurant. Do you think it's good? LOL

[Black Jack II]

Bottom line is BJJ is a take off of Judo, which is a take off of Jujitsu and most grapplers haven't the lightest clue as to how CMA would handle the situation.

I think some do and that is why they make it out to be such a joke. As for others I don't think they really care as they are to busy training. Really though, anything has a chance to work once, even the most odd duck stuff, but its just that why practice something that you can't really train with full out?

There's only one situation where you might want to use sprawl and that's when they have hold of both your feet at the same time and is an extreme emergency situation that is handled better in other ways.

No, the sprawl is what allows them to not get your legs in the first place if you are able to temporaly shut down the drive. If they already have your legs,well you may already be on the way to ending up on your a$$, but even then the sprawl can help to allow you to remain in a better position to exert pressue, such as stationed over you attacker.

I have seen sprawl and brawl in action. It is very effective.

and yes McDonalds can be good if its three in the morning and your a tad wasted. Heh.

[lunghushan]

I think so do and that is why they make it out to be such a joke. As for others I don't think they really care as they are to busy training. Really though, anything has a chance to work once, even the most odd duck stuff, but its just that why practice something that you can't really train with full out?

I have seen sprawl and brawl in action. It is very effective.

I've caught something like 50 UFCs. It is at best play fighting.

There's a very simple way CMA handles this sort of thing, and it does not involve using both feet, which puts you off balance, but whatever. Better if they don't know how CMA handles this or it would make it harder to beat stupid MMAists if they decide to attack.

[Black Jack II]

I've caught something like 50 UFCs. It is at best play fighting

.

Now, with this comment you really sum yourself up. Actually, its such a troll thing to say it almost suprised me.

[lunghushan]

.

Now, with this comment you really sum yourself up. Actually, its such a troll thing to say it almost suprised me.

The problem is that most people don't know CMA applications. They don't know the slightest thing about physics, which is why they raise their center of gravity in the ring. When you raise the center of gravity of an object does it make it more or less stable?

Then they compensate for a high center of gravity by putting their feet out and going totally off balance, or going up against the side of the cage ... whatever.

UFC now is like cavemen fighting. Very muscular cavemen.

[Aeturnal]

so im assuming no sticking body?

[lunghushan]

so im assuming no sticking body?

There is only one MA that I've come across that has what could be called 'sticky body' and you probably should forget about it.

If you want to learn something beyond Wing Chun, though, you might try these guys. Sifu Luo is pretty good http://www.yizongbagua.com/.

Baji also has some 'body fighting' techniques.