Should you sign a contract for instruction?

[BlueTravesty]

I think there should always be an option for month-to-month, albeit at a higher price- they don't know if you'll be back next month, and if you're not it will help cover expenses until you come back, or someone else joins. If you're willing to sign up for a contract, you should be given a lower price- they know you're putting in the time and effort, and aren't going to flake. Plus, if you've been there a while and you know your instructor pretty well, they might "freeze" your contract if you have to go out of town for a while, or are injured, and simply resume it when you get back.

The fact is, most Martial Arts instructors aren't out there to take your money, rubbing their hands with glee and laughing at your gullibility- there are much more profitable and less risky ways of doing that. And the ones that ARE money-hungry belt factory chain schools usually start out with a sincere desire to teach, which is likely how they got their classes so big to begin with. (Villari's, Tiger Schulmann, etc...)

What I hate is when you walk into an MA school, you listen to their pitch, their class looks fun and everything's going good. Then you ask how much instruction is, and they beat around the bush all day and keep trying to pitch you. Even if their intentions are good (unlikely, but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt since I've never run a school) it's annoying and shady.

[The Xia]

How will you get screwed if you charge on a monthly basis and collect payment at the beginning of each month?

[TenTigers]

because they bail out in june and july, and show up in November, or dissapear during Chinese New Year and saunter back in in March.
I don't charge tuition. I have a yearly membership,which is paid off on a monthly basis. You come, great. You don't come-doesn't matter, you bought a year membership. Period.
-oh, btw, when I say it doesn't matter, I am not talking about an indifference to my students. I am strictly speaking of finances.

[PangQuan]

How will you get screwed if you charge on a monthly basis and collect payment at the beginning of each month?

you wont.

this is how the class is that i currently attend. i like it very much.

but try doing that method with 20-30 adults AND 20-30 kids. it can be tough to keep your turnover rate of students to be level and not fluctuate like mad. granted that you COULD do that, if your trying to run a business and put bread on the table with it, it can be taxing. its much easier to make a contract and say "dont join if you dont like it" this way, you KNOW the people training at your facility are good for so much money.

it sucks having to turn people into walking numbers but thats the game of a financially lucrative business that rely's on long term client relationships.

a lot of contracts will keep the students there, or the cash coming. thats the ups and downs dealing with a business of any nature.

i would like to take this time to point out the fact im glad im just a student and not running a school. oi, talk about a head ache

[The Xia]

Having memberships, it sounds like your kwoon is more of a club then what is generally thought of as a school. I think those are two different ballgames. And I know the kind of students you are talking about. I think the fact that they come back shows that they want to train. I'd guess that the off-time time is because of career, school, or other obligations. I think this is a fact of modern life that martial artists have to deal with.

[Oso]

I think you are talking about something else. Like if the student doesn't want to pay because he didn't attend classes. Is that what you are saying? If so, that problem is solved by collecting payment at the beginning of the month. If he doesn't show up for classes that month, you still get paid.

yea, but in my case I have a number of people who don't get that when it's the '1st' of the month, it's time to pay for the classes they come to or bring their kids too.

I've got a ***** of a situation with a parent...he's been 5-10 days late with tuition for over 6 months now...i feel like I've got to tell him that Johnny can't come to class till he gets the tuition, and late fees, caught up. I hate it for the kid but I've done everything but beat this guy in the head with a stick. the last two months, he's not returned calls or anything.

[SanHeChuan]

Set 'em up on an automatic withdraw, and you shouldn't have to worry about collecting again.

[Oso]

Having memberships, it sounds like your kwoon is more of a club then what is generally thought of as a school. I think those are two different ballgames. And I know the kind of students you are talking about. I think the fact that they come back shows that they want to train. I'd guess that the off-time time is because of career, school, or other obligations. I think this is a fact of modern life that martial artists have to deal with.

but, you don't know. your hypothisizing when you aren't running a school...unless you are and I've missed it along the way.

when a student bails I pretty much know the reason...and generally, I try to give them much more face than I get in return.

if they bail because they don't like what I'm doing or how I'm teaching, I try to follow up to see if I can help them find a place that fits them...but those are rare That's not a comment on my ability, just that, at least IME, people tend to bail because:

#1 really learning a martial skill is harder than the fantasy.

#2 Ego. I've seen this manifest itself in many, many ways. Lately I've been dealing with people who are finding themselves threatened by newer students with more base attributes who catch on quicker. I hate trying to play 'guan psychoanalyst' when all I want to say is 'suck it up, train as hard as you can and be happy for your successes and don't judge yourself by anyone else's accomplishments'

[Oso]

Set 'em up on an automatic withdraw, and you should have to worry about collecting again.

right...but, at the moment, I can't even get that done because the fees would take me even more below breaking even...a lot of people are late but I usually collect everything by the 10th and repay myself for whatever I've put in out of pocket.

[MartialDev]

This is a very interesting discussion. I've never heard such a level of entitlement expressed by math instructors, English instructors, etc.

I can just imagine a Physics professor berating me after I decided to drop his class: Guess he wasn't man enough for thermodynamics. LOL.

[Oso]

This is a very interesting discussion. I've never heard such a level of entitlement expressed by math instructors, English instructors, etc.

I can just imagine a Physics professor berating me after I decided to drop his class: Guess he wasn't man enough for thermodynamics. LOL.

college teachers and professors draw a salary irregardless of student drops...they aren't the owners of the college...apples and oranges.

and where do you get 'entitlement' in this discussion? all I'm asking is that people who come to class, pay for class. if there is a drop, I pretty much can figure out why and if it's lazyness (physical or mental) then so be it but I'm not going to pat someone on the back but so much for quitting.

[SanHeChuan]

I'd charge more and get some contracts.

If, in the end, the constant stress of trying to run a school like your are is getting to you, it would be better to move to a more business format.

I've know people who have quit teaching for the bitterness of running a "buddy" school.

All you really need to teach is some students and space. You could do that in a park for free, but by charging money you are able to offer a better learning environment. So by charging more you should end up with a better facility.

If you think it wouldn't work in your neck of the woods, is there an ATA in your town? then it'll work.

[rogue]

A friend of mine who runs a dojo uses a contract and automatic withdrawal. The contract helps him keep a steady income especially during the down months of summer. The one thing he won't do is keep someone in the contract if they have a good reason for leaving but they have to ask him about it. If someone just drops out without talking with him he considers them still attending and so they get billed.
Seemed fair to me.

[Oso]

I'd charge more and get some contracts.

I charge $85 a month. The two closest schools charge $85 and $89. I've thought about going to $90 July 1 but if gas prices and food prices keep rising, and my competitors stay the same, I'll probably just need to stay where I am.

If, in the end, the constant stress of trying to run a school like your are is getting to you, it would be better to move to a more business format.

that's what I'm doing....slowly, granted, but still moving that way.

I've know people who have quit teaching for the bitterness of running a "buddy" school.

All you really need to teach is some students and space. You could do that in a park for free, but by charging money you are able to offer a better learning environment. So by charging more you should end up with a better facility.

If you think it wouldn't work in your neck of the woods, is there an ATA in your town? then it'll work.

there are 4...maybe 5 ATA or ITF schools within 5 miles. part of the problem is the density of ma schools in this town...there are 14, including me, within a 3 mile radius of the center of town. if you go out to 10 miles then you can add another 8-10 schools...you can only cut so many slices out of the same pie and everyone be sated....ok, i'm really tossing out some crappy metaphors...time to go to bed.

[rogue]

Boy, I still remember the good old days when rents were cheap and all karate schools were side jobs for the owners. I remember working for the same company as one of my sensei.