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Thread: Should you sign a contract for instruction?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    Because thats what a contract does. If a student learns something and gets into shape, off course thats a fair trade. But if they are training they will be paying you either way contract or no. The contract is only in place to secure money from people who don't turn up all the time. So its purpose is charging people for nothing.

    You could say its there to make people train.. If they have paid there is more incentive for them to turn up. There is some truth in this. But a long term contract?? Sure, do it by the month, especially if your gym has a lot of classes, but not a long contract.
    For the most part yes contracts are put in place to secure the school's income to maintain its survival. I disagree with the statement that they are "only in place to secure money from people who don't turn up all the time". If a student signs a contract it's the students responsibility to attend classes. The student entered into a legally binding contract. If the school honors the service it is the responsibility of the student to honor the tuition whether they attend training sessions or not.

    There are a lot of schools and organizations that have used contracts unethically to their advantage. But for the most part a contract isn't a bad thing. Most of our every day services are contractually based. Your mortgage/rent, automobile, credit cards, phone, cable t.v/satellite/internet, gym, school/student loans, etc. are all contracts. So why is signing a contract for martial arts training so taboo?

    The reason instructors started turning their school's into a business is because back in the 80's instructors were struggling between teaching, job, family and all the financial burden that comes with it. They were ending up divorced, and bankrupt. The students would become successful in life because of the morals, values, discipline and work ethics instilled into him/her while the instructor slept on a cot in the backroom of his school. Most of us (myself included) have at some point in their training had a fantastic instructor who didn't know how to run a business and eventually closed their doors and moved on with life.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin View Post
    The students would become successful in life because of the morals, values, discipline and work ethics instilled into him/her while the instructor slept on a cot in the backroom of his school. .
    Exactly, MA teaches ethics and morality as well as all the other stuff. That is a large part of it. How can one teach ethics if you are charging students who don't even turn up. To make it a business you would have to lose that element, and then its not kung fu anymore.
    Last edited by RenDaHai; 03-30-2012 at 07:00 PM.

  3. #123
    Where I go offers all the way from paying per class to prepaying for an entire year. This allows people to test the waters with commitment or if they know they're all into it then they can save some money by prepaying for a variety of number of intervals. I honestly don't see the problem with contracts. It's a business like any other who has to pay their bills. It's the same as signing up for a gym or signing a cell phone contract. The consumer has to weigh what they're getting for that month (or however long the contract is) and if what they get is worth it. If they decide to enter into a contract that they don't intend to honor, why is it suddenly the school's fault/bad for them to want to collect the money that the individual entered a contract for? Why is a martial arts school held to a different standard than any other business out there?

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    Exactly, MA teaches ethics and morality as well as all the other stuff. That is a large part of it. How can one teach ethics if you are charging students who don't even turn up. To make it a business you would have to lose that element, and then its not kung fu anymore.
    Are you saying that one has to compromise an ethical code in order to become a business man and/or woman?

    I would ask, how can an instructor teach their students about hard work, goal setting and achievement, pride, and self worth but still fail financially and fail in marriage? That's the real contradiction.

    I still don't honestly understand. If the student knowingly and willing enters into a long term agreement for martial arts instruction and then doesn't attend the class, why is the instructor/school the bad guy. The student is the one at fault. They do have the option to not sign the contract.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin View Post
    Are you saying that one has to compromise an ethical code in order to become a business man and/or woman?
    Well, yeah. Sure, not in all cases, but I think that is a prerequisite of really successful business

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin View Post
    I would ask, how can an instructor teach their students about hard work, goal setting and achievement, pride, and self worth but still fail financially and fail in marriage? That's the real contradiction.
    Well, those may not be the things the student values. To be honest the vast majority of my training has been in China, I am a little out of touch with what people train for and want in the west. Generally I would respect virtue over success.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin View Post
    I still don't honestly understand. If the student knowingly and willing enters into a long term agreement for martial arts instruction and then doesn't attend the class, why is the instructor/school the bad guy. The student is the one at fault. They do have the option to not sign the contract.
    Because that may be their only option to train, then circumstances may unpredictably change for them. Also people are fickle, this is something we all know. It would be wrong to prey on this part of human nature when you are already aware of it.
    Last edited by RenDaHai; 03-30-2012 at 11:39 PM.

  6. #126
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    The whole problem here is the need to differentiate between a good and bad contract, and fair and unfair business practices. There's nothing wrong with contracts, it's the abuse of contracts that's a problem.
    "The man who stands for nothing is likely to fall for anything"
    www.swindonkungfu.co.uk

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Gash View Post
    The whole problem here is the need to differentiate between a good and bad contract, and fair and unfair business practices. There's nothing wrong with contracts, it's the abuse of contracts that's a problem.
    Yeah, I think that's right.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Gash View Post
    The whole problem here is the need to differentiate between a good and bad contract, and fair and unfair business practices. There's nothing wrong with contracts, it's the abuse of contracts that's a problem.
    I agree with that.

  9. #129

    should you sign a contract for instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartialDev View Post
    Here is the original article.

    Opinions?
    I would check out the teacher first and see how he teaches his class first . Because there are teachers that just charge monthly for martial arts instruction . So that you can just quit the training whenever you feel like . So checking out the teachers' background and experience is important to me , then that way I know what kind of teacher I ' m dealing with . Because , the master or sensei should be able to teach you how to really defend yourself , instead of just telling you that you ' re not doing it right , the sensei is suppose to show you how to block a straight punch comming to your face , without getting hit . Instead of getting hit .

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