Originally Posted by Knifefighter
Especially these days where MMA is the Hot Sh!t and more people are prone to be trained in grappling as well as striking.
Registered User
Especially these days where MMA is the Hot Sh!t and more people are prone to be trained in grappling as well as striking.
Banned
Have you ever been attacked and knocked to the ground? Have you ever "seen" a real knife encounter? A majority of the time when attacked with a box cutter, the attacker will knock the target down, mount them, then start slashing at their face or if they have a dagger like blade they will use an icepick like motion to the chest. Read any forensic file on typical knife defense wounds and positions taken into account when determining the angle of the wound. Knife attacks are usually an act of over/overt aggression. The wounds that do occur standing are ones made to ensure a getaway easier. When it comes to killing blows and vicious attack scenarios the person is usually on their back.It just does not make sense out of the ring and It just does not make sense out of the ring and in real violent encounters. Especially when a concealed knife could be pulled so easily. ground work is just too vulnerable to stuff like that...
Your above comment shows the true extent of your understanding of tactical reality and your lack of real world experience. A "real" violent encounter will not be a running battle of punches and kicks. A person will lose their footing, more times than not, and wind up on their backs. Yes, being on the ground puts you in a vulnerable position but not to train for this eventuality is ignorant. You will be more vulnerable than a person who does train for this particular scenario. Normally, I would troll and make funny or what have you but the type of knowledge you are exposing is what usually get people injured or worse. Forget Bjj being superior or if CMA has ground grappling, the nonsense that you declaring is what causes so many people to be harmed in altercations and plagues the MA world. People who have never tested their skill give out musings and "informed" advice to people looking for advice thus putting their students in possible danger.
In short, you sir,are a boob!!
GM of Hadaka Korosu
The biggest danger when faced with a knife is NOT KNOWING the other has a knife.
One of the worse stabbings I saw was a guy that laced into another guy with a push-dagger, nasty thing....
Of course grappling is essential in dealing with an armed attacker.
Fact is very few people train enough with/against weapons to be able to deal with them.
Training with Escrima/kali guys would be a great eye-opener to anyone thinking that their training has prepared them in ANY way to deal with an armed attacker.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY2T5DIxLYg
he must have been on something....
Registered User
Perfect example of how important grappling is against a blade. Some knowledge of two on one control combined with guard work could go a long way in a situation like that.
Troll Slayer
I am starting to digest the "red zone" stuff and seeing how an "alive" grappling leads itself naturally to stuff like that
Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253
Registered User
How about Chin Na? How do you think someone well versed in their styles seizing and capture skills would fare against that particular kind of attack as opposed to a BJJ grappler or Judo player?
If both skill sets were equally trained, would there be much of a difference?
Banned
If you are talking about the typical Chin-na training in most gung fu systems I would say nill to none but if you are talking about grabbing, seizing and controlling from Shuai Jiao I would say yes. Must Kung fu systems will teach you the technique but not what is needed behind the technique. Shuia jiao on the other hand trains you from the ground up. They build grip strength, sensitivity to a live resisting opponents movements and things like that. You may not have the guard or other bjj stuff but it can still be effective.How about Chin Na? How do you think someone well versed in their styles seizing and capture skills would fare against that particular kind of attack as opposed to a BJJ grappler or Judo player?
If both skill sets were equally trained, would there be much of a difference?
You would think it only takes equal training to make a skill set viable but in actuality it does not. Bjj has done one thing that 99% of the kung fu schools have not, which is stream line what works and taken away what does not. If kung fu was to do the same and train with a resisting opponent then it should work. But this would mean practicing their chin na moves actively and training grip strength among other things.If both skill sets were equally trained, would there be much of a difference?
If you look carefully, had this pointed out to me by a jkd guy, Bjj is basically doing what Bruce Lee was attempting to do but with grappling. MMA as a concept is where JKD should have headed but did not
GM of Hadaka Korosu
When you are trained to DEAL with a weapon that is used against you in an aggressive and violent manner and in an unpredictable way, yes than your chances of survival would increase regardless of your chosen system.
Registered User
That's what I thought. Thanks for the clarification guys.
That's a very good point. Let's distinguish groundgrappling from groundfighting.Other than the ramdom Chin na if you are somehow brought down too, CMA does not grapple on the ground like BJJ. That however, does not mean there is no Ground FIGHTING, because there certianly is.
Are you talking about ground grappling or stand up grappling?
My understanding is that MMA is learning to fight in the strike, clinch and ground range. Hence, it would be something like Muy Thai, Judo and BJJ.
But no matter what you compose the system from, or whether you make it out to be an "evolving" system, it is definitely composed of SOMETHING. The techniques come from somewhere and there are a set group of techniques from these TMAs or other combat sports that make up your "system" of training. There is something that you repeat in your training.
Its not like you get out there and make it up from scratch every time you fight. So I don't buy the argument that people that practice MMA don't have a system, it may be an individual system or an eclectic system or an "evolving" system but it is a system none the less.
Secondly, there are people that learn all those ranges of fighting from teachers but never compete in MMA. Would you consider what they do MMA? I don't see how you can because according to you MMA is a format. My point is that MMA is not a format MMA it is a Mixed Martial Arts approach to training to compete in NHB events. So I think calling MMA a format is not accurate.
Why clarify all these terms? Because we can't have a coherent discussion unless we have defined what we're talking about. Otherwise we may be arguing about totally different things and never reach and resolution.
FP
Even if its a dumb real life strategy to stay on the ground grappling with someone it makes sense that you would want to know how to get the **** out of there and back on your feet. The drunk football player who tackles you in a bar isn't going to care if its a dumb strategy or not. He's going to take you down and you need to get away from his "kamikaze" move.
However, the thing that bugs me in NHB events is the excessively long ground grappling. It doesn't reflect any kind of real life reality.
You should have 10-20 seconds to tap your opponent out or the fighters should get reset back to their feet.
Not only is it unrealistic but its boring to watch.
Likewise, in the clinch you should have 3-4 seconds to get a throw or take your opponent to the ground.
Otherwise these matches just turn into tests of endurance and strength and not tests of skill.
If I want to see endurance I'll watch the Tour de France, if I want to see strength I'll watch a strongman competition.
If I want to watch martial skill then the event should reflect that.
What I'd like to see is a San Da/MMA hybrid that puts a limit on the time for ground grappling.
Just my 2 cents.
FP
Banned
Shows what you know about a fight. If someone takes you to the ground in the street they are gonna try and GNP you and not reset after 20 seconds.....You should have 10-20 seconds to tap your opponent out or the fighters should get reset back to their feet.
again in a real fight no clinch timer.Likewise, in the clinch you should have 3-4 seconds to get a throw or take your opponent to the ground
Wtf do you think a real fight is? In a real fight technique and skill only plays a certian role the rest is who can stay awake longer. The first person to get knocked **** out, pass out or gives up loses, sometimes with their life!Otherwise these matches just turn into tests of endurance and strength and not tests of skill.
MMA fights are as close as you can get ti life/death fights......oh and just my two cents... you're still a moron...What I'd like to see is a San Da/MMA hybrid that puts a limit on the time for ground grappling.
Just my 2 cents.
yes I know he still has me on ignore but maybe he will peek lol
Banned
yeah...grappling on the ground has no skillOtherwise these matches just turn into tests of endurance and strength and not tests of skill.this guy is really clueless!
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