OT - why are we at war?

[Yao Sing]

Today, only five countries in the world are without a central bank: Iran, North Korea, Sudan, Cuba and Libya. All of these just happen to be on George Bush's "Evil of Axis" list. Coincidence?

[Yao Sing]

James A. Garfield
"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce."++

Daniel Webster, speech in the Senate, 1833
“We are in danger of being overwhelmed with irredeemable paper, mere paper, representing not gold nor silver; no sir, representing nothing but broken promises, bad faith, bankrupt corporations, cheated creditors and a ruined people.”

Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1816
“I sincerely believe ... that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity under the name of funding is but swindling futurity on a large scale.”

Daniel Webster
"Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring classes of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money."

John C. Calhoun, Speech 5/27/1836
"A power has risen up in the government greater than the people themselves, consisting of many and various powerful interest, combined in one mass; and held together by the cohesive power of the vast surplus in banks."

John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson
"All the perplexities, confusion and distresses in America arise not from defects in the constitution or confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, as much from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation."++

Rt. Hon. Reginald McKenna, former Chancellor of Exchequer, England
"Those who create and issue money and credit direct the policies of government and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people."++

Sir Josiah Stamp, former President, Bank of England
"Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money and control credit, and with a flick of a pen they will create enough to buy it back."++

Irving Fisher, 100% Money
"Thus, our national circulating medium is now at the mercy of loan transactions of banks, which lend, not money, but promises to supply money they do not possess."++

[xcakid]

Why are we at war?

Two reasons really.

1) Well apparently, unless Christians convert to Muslim, we are infidels and need to die. Cause all we do is corrupt non infidels. This has been going on for ages by the way. Has really come more to the forefront due to advent of modern travel, weaponry and media.

2) While the other people think we are too big for our own britches and we need to be knocked down an peg or two.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

We are at war so I can make a fortune in the Crude Oil market as prices continue to rise out of controll.

[Yao Sing]

Why are we at war?

Two reasons really.

1) Well apparently, unless Christians convert to Muslim, we are infidels and need to die. Cause all we do is corrupt non infidels. This has been going on for ages by the way. Has really come more to the forefront due to advent of modern travel, weaponry and media.

2) While the other people think we are too big for our own britches and we need to be knocked down an peg or two.

Number 1 I agree they want everyone converted but I don't agree that's why we are currently at war. Like you said it's been like that for ages.

Number 2 sounds suspiciously like they're jealous of our freedom which is totally ridiculous. Again, not the reason we are currently at war.

These are the public reasons, like the WMD argument. Used to placate the masses.

[Mas Judt]

You misunderstand, no.2 is not about resenting us for our freedoms, whatever, it is about others wanting to be no.1. Russia, China, india, france, etc... all want our pole position in the world.

If those countries are the way they are because they don't have central banks - well give me that good 'ol central bank, cause I do NOT want to live like they do.

[David Jamieson]

I don't know about where you are, but the major chartered banks in my country are regulated by rule of law and they have to lobby the same as anyone else.

Shouldn't there be a mechanism whereby I can borrow money for a fee? A fee that I agree upon and which is not completely outrageous. Say a mortgage where i buy a house and actually pay 1.5 times it's actual value, but in return I get to pay for it with someone else's money and I can take 25 years to pay it back with the interest. Which in turn allows the bank to not only profit from the deal, but to have another loan available for someone else who cannot for whatever reason come up with the full price of a piece of property.

Shouldn't I have a place that is safe and secure and where I can put my money AND have insurance that no matter what, my money will be there? Between bank service agreements, insurance and government assurance (65,000 is protected funds in a canadian bank), I can be assured that I will not lose my money.

In a credit union, an organization can use it's own wealth as a mechanism to grow funds for the contributors. These are also banks, they are not centralized and they are regulated.

In short, while I think there are unscrupulous bankers to be sure and there are corporate banking decisions that put other peoples funds at risk, overall it is better to have banks than to not have them.

[Black Jack II]

You misunderstand, no.2 is not about resenting us for our freedoms, whatever, it is about others wanting to be no.1. Russia, China, india, france, etc... all want our pole position in the world.

If those countries are the way they are because they don't have central banks - well give me that good 'ol central bank, cause I do NOT want to live like they do.

Mas Judt just summoned up the worm-eaten, emaciated, undead corpse of Lee Marvin and had it pimp walk over to the Correct's house, kick down the door, and tea bag the family Basset Hound.

[Mr Punch]

Mas Judt just summoned up the worm-eaten, emaciated, undead corpse of Lee Marvin and had it pimp walk over to the Correct's house, kick down the door, and tea bag the family Basset Hound.

LOL, there's something horribly wrong with that image!

That's it: of course it's emaciated - you don't get worm-eaten fat zombies now do you!?

[eomonroe00]

"Shouldn't I have a place that is safe and secure "

from what i know fo the savings and loans scandal, one bank goes under and it nearly wiped out all the insurance the govt had to protect americans, by that logic if multiple banks go under here we will be up blank creek-

and what many people here are refering to with the banking industry is a very deep complicated argument that is best explained through a google video

search for

money masters

we all know politicians are in the pockets of businessmen, well , this video argues, businessmen are in the pockets of bankers, who can expand and contract the amount of currency in circulation, putting people out of business, i.e. the crash of the 1920's
really fasinating video,

but my theory is , we are at war, bc there is more fear and hate in this world than love-and bc most people are at war with themselves, war is an outmoded, barbarian model, we have the war on drugs, and poverty, on hunger, and all it does is create more problems--

lets get naked and start the revolution

[Mas Judt]

The problem is who do you trust? The problem we see in America is the lack of transparency with the central bank - which by law must be transparent, plus the growth of 'trade organizations with their own courts - effectively eliminating self-rule.

There are plusses and minusses to both sides, however, I prefer some liberty.

[The Willow Sword]

1. Because,in my opinion,christian fundamentalists are just as mentally ILL as the muslim fundies are(mainly because the xtians made them that way). Of course this ALL Started back in 1095 when a radical mentally disturbed Pope thought it would be fun to reclaim the holy land in jerusalem and kill all infidels that stood in their way. Yes folks, it was pope Urban the II we have to thank as to why things are the way they are in the middle east today.

2. oh yeah and also because radical muslim fundies hijacked planes and crashed them into our buildings(which wasnt a very nice thing to do) and its clintons fault it happened


Peace,Yeah muther fuker i said Peace. TWS

[Mas Judt]

Willow you need some help with your history - the crusades were a response to hundreds of years of war, conversion by the sword, slavery and murder - all in the name of Islam.

To think the muslims, and their warmongering theology was 'made that way' by pope urban demonstrates not only a stunning ignorance of history (particularly Islamic history as taught by the muslims themselves) but a complete lack of critical thought.

Take a crack at reading the source material.

It will scare the self-hate right out of you.

[Mas Judt]

Actually there is a direct correlation to decisions made during the cold war and the problems we have today. Islam has been at it's greatest when it was the least, well islamic. This is the great lie the caliphate utopianists fall in to. Frankly, we need to step away from that part of the world.

But to say Pope Urban caused this is simply fatuous.

And yes, Clinton does deserve some blame, but I'm fairly confident that prior to 9/11 I would have made the same decision. It's funny, a big government democrat made a decision that was untrusting of the government, and it burned him.

[specialed]

the only conspiracy is the one to spread conspiracy theories.
personally, the next time there's a major disaster in any one of these countries that hates the big bad mean USA, i hope we don't send a single penny in aid. let them call upon the generosity of thier own bretheren. see how far that goes.