DOH!Originally Posted by Shaolinlueb
ya got me there, bro.
Glorified TCMAist
DOH!
ya got me there, bro.
"My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"
"I will not be part of the generation
that killed Kung-Fu."
....step.
HopGa GM Harry Ng
according to robert smith kimura kicked helio gracies ass broke his arm and everything...royce and them came up in the 80's and 90's fighting bar room brawlers in the ufc and having wrestle fests on brazilian beaches...your long ass post is saying what now? muay thai is the end of history retard.
Bad the Fukc Ass
its like the saying; "dont bring a knife to a gunfight"
groundfighting, and the knowledge, experience, and understanding of, is as important as striking in todays world of combat.
pretty much any area. street, or sport. the degree's may change as to how you are going to alot your time for each particular aspect of combat. but the fact remains that if you dont know the ground, some kid with 2 years experience may get past your guard, sweep you, and pound you into the ground.
no body wants that. so everybody needs to learn how to use a gun instead of showing up with only part of the picture.
its evolution of combat basics. what does one need in order to prevail in todays combat world?
understanding of striking and groundfighting are both required, or you will not be up to par.
For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.
Banned
Hard to argue with that.
choppin dat pork
Whether you did it intentionally or not, you set up a contrast between CMA + JMA and BJJ. Your comment that CMA + JMA were "gentleman's arts" implies that they were too high brow; while your comment that BJJ was taking out "ghetto dudes" means that they were more "street".
This simply is not true.
First off BJJ comes directly from the JMA tradition via Maeda so putting down JMA and building up BJJ is just silly.
Second, JMA is/was taught to all kids in Japanese public education, regardless of social status; the Gracies on the other hand were/are wealthy & ran their school in a "high class" gymnasium.
Helio was active in the 50s but so was Carlson Gracie.
Rolls Gracie was active in the 70s.
Helio got taken out by Kimura (a JMA-ist, mind you) in 55, video exists of this fight - no relying on Robert W Smith.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44wd7GXgep4
EDIT: The point being that these guys made their reputation fighting (and some times losing) to established TMAists. Not just thugs.
"bjj is a bunch of ghetto dudes getting paid knocking out tma's until the ufc started blending muay thai..."
Whether intentional or not, this phrase, when combined with your earlier statement seems to lump in muay thai with the "gentlemanly arts" of CMA & JMA.
This is hilarious if you know how ghetto the background that most muay thai fighters come from.
Last edited by Pork Chop; 01-20-2009 at 07:36 PM.
-Jack Dempsey ch1 pg1 Championship FightingWhat would happen if a year-old baby fell from a fourth-floor window onto the head of a burly truck driver, standing on the sidewalk?
It's practically certain that the truckman would be knocked unconscious. He might die of brain concussion or a broken neck.
Even an innocent little baby can become a dangerous missile WHEN ITS BODY-WEIGHT IS SET INTO FAST MOTION.
HopGa GM Harry Ng
I meant to say jjj went soft after ww2 while bjj grew to worldwide recognition because imo brazil is a tough land people fight a lot from what I've heard wheras the Japanese started focusing on the artistic aspects of tma creating **** like aikido...jjj didn't start the ufc Royce and his bro's and cousins did as they grew up fighting in a family with over 70 years of live sparring again I imagine because Brazil is such a live place compared to most popular destinations.
I'm just being a **** really tma vs mma isn't even a debate the issue is 90 % of the population is out of shape:
HopGa GM Harry Ng
Sports Illustrated
December 26. 1960
The Soft American
By President-elect John F. Kennedy
Beginning more than 2,500 years ago, from all quarters of the Greek world men thronged every four years to the sacred grove of Olympia, under the shadow of Mount Cronus, to compete in the most famous athletic contests of history—the Olympian games.
During the contest a sacred truce was observed among all the states of Greece as the best athletes of the Western world competed in boxing and foot races, wrestling and chariot races for the wreath of wild olive which was the prize of victory. When the winners returned to their home cities to lay the Olympian crown in the chief temples they were greeted as heroes and received rich rewards. For the Greeks prized physical excellence and athletic skills among man’s greatest goals and among the prime foundations of a vigorous state.
Thus the same civilizations which produced some of our highest achievements of philosophy and drama, government and art, also gave us a belief in the importance of physical soundness which has become a part of Western tradition; from the mens sana in corpore sano of the Romans to the British belief that the playing fields of Eaton brought victory on the battlefields of Europe. This knowledge, the knowledge that the physical well-being of the citizen is an important foundation for the vigor and vitality of all the activities of the nation, is as old as Western civilization itself. But it is a knowledge which today, in American, we are in danger of forgetting.
The first indication of a decline in the physical strength and ability of young Americans became apparent among United States soldiers in the early stages of the Korean War. The second came when figures were released showing that almost one out of every two young American was being rejected by Selective Service as mentally, morally or physically unfit. But the most startling demonstration of the general physical decline of American youth came when Dr. Hans Kraus and Dr. Sonja Weber revealed the results of 15 years of research centering in the Posture Clinic of New York’s Columbia-Presbyterian Hospital—results of physical fitness tests given to 4,264 children in this country and 2,870 children in Austria, Italy and Switzerland.
The findings showed that despite our unparalleled standard of living, despite our good food and our many playgrounds, despite our emphasis on school athletics, American youth lagged far behind Europeans in physical fitness. Six tests for muscular strength and flexibility were given; 57.9% of the American children failed one or more of these tests, while only 8.7% of the European youngsters failed.
A Consistent Decline
Especially disheartening were the results of the five strength tests: 35.7% of American children failed one or more of these, while only 1.1% of the Europeans failed, and among Austrian and Swiss youth the rate of failure was as low as .5%.
As a result of the alarming Kraus-Weber findings President Eisenhower created a Council on Youth Fitness at the Cabinet level and appointed a Citizens Advisory Committee on the Fitness of American Youth, composed of prominent citizens interested in fitness. Over the past five years the physical fitness of American youth has been discussed in forums, by committees and in leading publications. A 10-point program for physical fitness has been publicized and promoted. Our schools have been urged to give increased attention to the physical well-being of their students. Yet there has been no noticeable improvement. Physical fitness tests conducted last year in Britain and Japan showed that the youth of those countries were considerably more fit than our own children. And the annual physical fitness tests for freshman at Yale University show a consistent decline in the prowess of young American; 51& of the class of 1951 passed the tests, 43% of the class of 1956 passed, and only 38%, a little more than a third, of the class of 1960 succeeded, in passing the not overly rigorous examination.
Of course, physical tests are not infallible. They can distort the true health picture. There are undoubtedly many American youths and adults whose physical fitness matches and exceeds the best of other lands.
But the harsh fact of the matter is that there is also an increasingly large number of young Americans who are neglecting their bodies—whose physical fitness is not what it should be—who are getting soft. And such softness on the part of individual citizens can help to strip and destroy the vitality of a nation.
For the physical vigor of our citizens is one of America’s most precious resources. If we waste and neglect this resource, if we allow it to dwindle and grow soft then we will destroy much of our ability to meet the great and vital challenges which confront our people. We will be unable to realize our full potential as a nation.
Throughout our history we have been challenged to armed conflict by nations which sought to destroy our independence or threatened our freedom. The young men of America have risen to those occasions, giving themselves freely to the rigors and hardships of warfare. But the stamina and strength which the defense of liberty requires are not the product of a few weeks’ basic training or a month’s conditioning. These only come from bodies which have been conditioned by a lifetime of participation in sports and interest in physical activity. Our struggles against aggressors throughout our history have been won on the playgrounds and corner lots and fields of America.
Thus, in a very real and immediate sense, our growing softness, our increasing lack of physical fitness, is a menace to our security.
However, we do not, like the ancient Spartans, wish to train the bodies of our youth to make them more effective warriors. It is our profound hope and expectation that Americans will never again have to expend their strength in armed conflict.
But physical fitness is as vital to the activities of peace as to those of war, especially when our success in those activities may well determine the future of freedom in the years to come. We face in the Soviet Union a powerful and implacable adversary determined to show the world that only the Communist system possesses the vigor and determination necessary to satisfy awakening aspirations for progress and the elimination of poverty and want. To meet the challenge of this enemy will require determination and will and effort on the part of all American. Only if our citizens are physically fit will they be fully capable of such an effort.
For physical fitness is not only one of the most important keys to a healthy body; it is the basis of dynamic and creative intellectual activity. The relationship between the soundness of the body and the activities of the mind is subtle and complex. Much is not yet understood. But we do know what the Greeks knew: that intelligence and skill can only function at the peak of their capacity when the body is healthy and strong; that hardy spirits and tough minds usually inhabit sound bodies.
In this sense, physical fitness is the basis of all the activities of our society. And if our bodies grow soft and inactive, if we fail to encourage physical development and prowess, we will undermine our capacity for thought, for work and for the use of those skills vital to an expanding and complex America.
Thus the physical fitness of our citizens is a vital prerequisite to America’s realization of its full potential as a nation, and to the opportunity of each individual citizen to make full and fruitful use of his capacities.
It is ironic that at a time when the magnitude of our dangers makes the physical fitness of our citizens a matter of increasing importance, it takes greater effort and determination than ever before to build the strength of our bodies. The age of leisure and abundance can destroy vigor and muscle tone as effortlessly as it can gain time. Today human activity, the labor of the human body, is rapidly being engineered out of working life. By the 1970’s, according to many economists, the man who works with his hands will be almost extinct.
Many of the routine physical activities which earlier Americans took for granted are no longer part of our daily life. A single look at the packed parking lot of the average high school will tell us what has happened to the traditional hike to school that helped to build young bodies. The television set, the movies and the myriad conveniences and distractions of modern life all lure our young people away from the strenuous physical activity that is the basis of fitness in youth and in later life.
Is very uneasy
Then how do you explain Sifu Rudy Abel with his 20 years of Kung-Fu training having no structure or technique and flailing about in his fight?
When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams
Registered User
he actually had structure and didnt do too bad..well he lost but at some points of the fight it could have turned out differently if the ref didnt stop the fight when they got too close to the ropes for example..
anyway,another pointless debate going on here...
u are always only as good as you train no matter what style...
Banned
Because life in Japan was so easy and comfortable after WWII?
'People' are tough everywhere. That kind of argument is just silly.
Banned
"Didn't do too bad"?! What fight did you watch?
Banned
The Boxer Rebellion was not a matter of armed master vs. armed master. It was armed Chinese vs unarmed Christians and foreigners. And then it turned into something else when the numerically inferior foreigners with weapons arrived.
I'm kung fu..and so can u
That's a pretty broad generalization considering there are reportedly over 300 styles of kung fu. In CLF, for example, the focus isn't on intercepting but rather overwhelming your opponent with a continuous barrage of attacks from all directions.
EO
Banned
Oh yes, I understood. And to think how many years some have dedicated to their one true art.... you'd expect evidence to be overflowing.
But...
choppin dat pork
Japan doesn't have guns.
Kids still fight in the streets after school, with limited fear of weapons being used.
When I was doing kung fu in high school, one of the kids in our class used his stuff on almost a daily basis - he was half-fillipino and had a lot of problems with racism at his Japanese high school, not to mention an abusive older brother.
I knew kids when I was in high school over there that picked up boxing, judo, or karate for the sole purpose of protecting themselves from after school bullies.
The softening of Japan is a much more recent thing and has very little to do with Aikido.
Where would mma be without Japan?
Especially seeing as how it was making a start there technically before the first UFC...?
Safe country? Yes, but a lot of dudes still like to fight.
-Jack Dempsey ch1 pg1 Championship FightingWhat would happen if a year-old baby fell from a fourth-floor window onto the head of a burly truck driver, standing on the sidewalk?
It's practically certain that the truckman would be knocked unconscious. He might die of brain concussion or a broken neck.
Even an innocent little baby can become a dangerous missile WHEN ITS BODY-WEIGHT IS SET INTO FAST MOTION.
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