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Thread: Ziranmen Techniques Clip

  1. #1
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    Ziranmen Techniques Clip


  2. #2
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    Nice Clip! Thanks for posting!

    I really like Liu De Ming's speed and intent.

    I'm a bit surprised at his use of "when they do A, you do B" type of language. It's understandable within the context of the video, however the Zi Ran Men I practice almost has an aversion to those kinds of lessons and combos, as well as to forms.

    How are these drilled among the students after he's demo'd them?
    "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own." -Cicero

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    No probs - this is just a clip presented as simply and clearly as possible...just basics not the holy grail of ZRM

    Even in Ziranmen you must have some form at the start - then this becomes no form and natural and spontaneous.

    None of the famous ZRM masters, Du Xin Wu, Wan Lai Shen etc have ever had any aversion to forms - these are just tools or vehicles to get to the end goal.

    In the old days unless you had done at least 10 years minimum of Liu He (6 Harmonies KF) you would not even get to train the ZRM as you needed the basics... if you dont have good basics how are you going to grasp the philosphy of being able to apply basics techiques with correct spontanous movement.

    After a technique is learnt they are drilled and then you are free to play and see what works and feels best for you. From these basic techniques there are obviously many combos you can apply.

    You may be suprised to know that there is an actual Ziranmen form however few have this.

    Who are you studying with?


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacktiger View Post
    No probs - this is just a clip presented as simply and clearly as possible...just basics not the holy grail of ZRM
    Gotcha.

    Even in Ziranmen you must have some form at the start - then this becomes no form and natural and spontaneous.
    the only "form" we ever practiced was punching while blocking. Which, I guess, Liu De Ming is demonstrating above. We just learned it in a slightly different context (ie rather than "block like this, punch like this" it was "respond, attack the opening.")

    None of the famous ZRM masters, Du Xin Wu, Wan Lai Shen etc have ever had any aversion to forms - these are just tools or vehicles to get to the end goal.
    I know Wan Lai Shen knew a lot of forms. I agree that they're just tools and can serve a purpose, however part of my attraction to the ZRM I learned was its dispensing with form.

    In the old days unless you had done at least 10 years minimum of Liu He (6 Harmonies KF) you would not even get to train the ZRM as you needed the basics... if you dont have good basics how are you going to grasp the philosphy of being able to apply basics techiques with correct spontanous movement.
    Crazy!

    After a technique is learnt they are drilled and then you are free to play and see what works and feels best for you. From these basic techniques there are obviously many combos you can apply.

    You may be suprised to know that there is an actual Ziranmen form however few have this.
    I had no idea that there was a Ziranmen form, unless you're talking about the Qigong.

    Who are you studying with?
    I studied for about 3 years in B.C. with Mike Smith. Now I'm in Ontario, doing my own thing with it - I'd like to go back and work with him some more, though.
    "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own." -Cicero

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiao3 Meng4 View Post
    Gotcha.



    the only "form" we ever practiced was punching while blocking. Which, I guess, Liu De Ming is demonstrating above. We just learned it in a slightly different context (ie rather than "block like this, punch like this" it was "respond, attack the opening.")



    I know Wan Lai Shen knew a lot of forms. I agree that they're just tools and can serve a purpose, however part of my attraction to the ZRM I learned was its dispensing with form.



    Crazy!



    I had no idea that there was a Ziranmen form, unless you're talking about the Qigong.


    I studied for about 3 years in B.C. with Mike Smith. Now I'm in Ontario, doing my own thing with it - I'd like to go back and work with him some more, though.
    Cool

    The one thing you need to remember with ZRM is that just because its called natural boxing does not mean there are no basic techniques, foundation or forms....and you can just do anything and call it ZRM. Like any system you have to have some kind of structure and ZRM has a very clear one.

    Form first then no form - then correct spontanous movement. You cant get from A to C without working B. And this applies to all arts not just ZRM.

    Zi Ran Men training can be divided into three components : Physical Training, Combat Techniques and Conditioning.

    Yes - there is a ZRM form and im not just talking about the ZRM qigong either - only goes from Master to disciple.

    And who did Mike learn from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacktiger View Post
    Cool

    And who did Mike learn from?
    David Harris and others. Not sure where he got the ZRM specifically, but I doubt it's Wan Lai Shen's anyhow. I like it a lot though - more than my Wing Chun or Tai Ji for sure.

    I also get the "form first" idea... I mean, all of the students in class had prior MA training, so no one really needed to be taught "how to" throw and take structure. We spent a lot of time on Initiative drills.
    "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own." -Cicero

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    "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own." -Cicero

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