Iron Hand Against Grapplers

[Kellen Bassette]

lol @ defending takedown with horse stance

Horse stance is very useful in stuffing takedowns. You don't need to sprawl if you catch him before he gets deep.

[mickey]

OoooKay,

You are talking about sport competition. I am out of this thread.


mickey

[YouKnowWho]

I think a major problem here is people are quick to throw away or lose faith in their system, ...

Agree! A valid solution is a valid solution. It doesn't matter whether it's CMA solution or MMA solution.

When your opponent shoots at your leg, if you can put your hands behind his neck, redirect him to the ground, and let him to kiss dirt, you should be able to strike your hand on the back of his head. A strike on the back of your opponent's head is a very good "finish move".

[wiz cool c]

Agree! A valid solution is a valid solution. It doesn't matter whether it's CMA solution or MMA solution.

When your opponent shoots at your leg, if you can put your hands behind his neck and let him to kiss dirt, you should be able to strike your hand on the back of his head. A strike on the back of your opponent's head is a very good "finish move".

Interesting John, have been thinking of this one in my head as well, slapping a guy in the back of the head or neck with IP strike. I learned something like this back in my ninjutsu days, but recently realized the Iron hand training makes your slaps very heavy when i slapped a mosquito on the back of my neck.

[YouKnowWho]

Interesting John, have been thinking of this one in my head as well, slapping a guy in the back of the head or neck with IP strike. I learned something like this back in my ninjutsu days, but recently realized the Iron hand training makes your slaps very heavy when i slapped a mosquito on the back of my neck.

Instead of using both of your hands to push down on your opponent's back neck, if you just use one hand to push and another hand to do "willow palm" strike, even if you may not be able to knock your opponent out, you can still make him to "kiss the dirt".

[wiz cool c]

interesting, in the ninjutsu version we did a double handed slap downward on the base of the skull can honestly say i have not tried that technique in competition nor a real fight though. in the Beijing Shaui Jiao we did single leg takedown attempt defense by hooking one leg inside the attackers leg pushing down on the back of his neck and grabbing his leg with the other hand and dumping him over. i vaguely remember the hung gar instructor demonstrating a single hand downward slap while stepping back in a front stance[i know hung gar people train IP so fair to say it is a IP technique. is there a strike in that sequence above Jonh? cant tell

[YouKnowWho]

To strike on the back of your opponent's head is a very important CMA skill. The "抹(Mo) - Wiping" that you use your hand to pull your opponent's back neck toward you can be replaced by a "willow palm" strike on the back of the head. So IP can be used by a grappler on a striker as well.

[Frost]

Instead of using both of your hands to push down on your opponent's back neck, if you just use one hand to push and another hand to do "willow palm" strike, even if you may not be able to knock your opponent out, you can still make him to "kiss the dirt".

Umm no one shoots like that with there legs back back bent and arms reaching, it only works if your partner has no idea about grappling or cant put there knee down on the shot, heck even on a high shot your knee penetrates between there's so making them eat dirt next to useless

[-N-]

A strike on the back of your opponent's head is a very good "finish move".

Side of head requires less force against force and is easier to cause hemorrhage.

[bawang]

Horse stance is very useful in stuffing takedowns. You don't need to sprawl if you catch him before he gets deep.

lol
hkjhkh

[MightyB]

Horse stance is very useful in stuffing takedowns. You don't need to sprawl if you catch him before he gets deep.

Check that Silva article I posted earlier and it describes the process of why this statement is true and how you can use a wide stance to shut down takedown attempts.

[boxerbilly]

Great stuff John. Thank you.

GuyB. Thanks for the link. Sometimes we "read" horse-stance and we see static position with an upright body practicing reverse punches. A still picture. ( Other's may see a side stance application if it) Peoples mind work that way. They forget their can be movement in that stance. Wrestling stance. Basically a moving horse stance. Some guys stager. Some guys more square.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wji1jm_kEM

[Frost]

Check that Silva article I posted earlier and it describes the process of why this statement is true and how you can use a wide stance to shut down takedown attempts.

Silva had a great clinch game, very long levers and the best defensive wrestling coach going, the same guy who taught Aldo and Penn, taking a wide stance opens you up to a single or a body lock which is what Henderson and sonnen hit him with.

[Subitai]

IMO, if you want to learn how to strike a grappler...learn to grapple yourself and then find the available holes in the game. It's that simple.

What's interesting to me here is that a lot of points or (weaknesses) to address have been made and a person could choose to take up the cross for any one of them.

Lets looks at some facts, assuming you're the attacker:

From an mma grappler standpoint, I need to enter in without taking significant damage and bring you down. Frost basically talks about lowering his level properly...Love it. But the reason a grappler does it so well is because he sets up his opponent 1st and then takes advantage of that. Of course you don't start from 4' away, unless you know he's just tired and can't move. Then anything might work.

However, if you have some form of control (a arm or a leg) 1st and are close enough, Ala what JOHN is alluding to; you don't need to lower your level in a collegiate style takedown.

If i'm a striker, i'm dealing with potential long range to close up very quickly. One of the 1st issues in this concept is controlling the distance and also how much SPACE do you have or control. If i'm in a football field i can take my space differently then when i'm forced into a cage. THATS a fact!!

In my experience this is where things get hairy and allot of guys think that striking is all about damage and hurting the other guy. But there are other methods like striking to push or pull (usually down or lift) to create space. You do this by being solid yet agile on your feet. The mistake allot of strikers make IMO is going for the knockout as a stop gap or finish move and when it fails...it fails miserably.

We've all been there, (well most of us) when the pressure is on and you just want to knock the guy out. But learning to relax at that time and let the opportunity happen comes from maturity.

Other observation:
If a guy shoots on me and I lower my level with him and also get hand control for example, yes I can use "in part" a horse stance to help me into my next counter. In that regard, what Kellen said is also possible, it depends on the set up.


to wiz cool c, My take is Iron hand should not be viewed as a finish move... one shot one kill kind of deal. It's a tool like other weapons, I hope you get my drift?


So you see, there is an argument for almost everyone's point if you look at it a certain way.

[YouKnowWho]

So you see, there is an argument for almost everyone's point if you look at it a certain way.

This is why we should just express our opinions and at the same time respect other's opinion.