Chinese films struggling to gain profit overseas

[mdo7]

We've brought up about how Kung fu genre is dead or dying or losing it's global relevence. But it goes beyond that. I found out that Chinese films overall regardless of what genre is struggling overseas when it come to profit. Despite Mainland Chinese cinema market being #2 on the global market, their domestic films are not winning international fanbases compared to the global popularity of Korean TV dramas (and K-pop).

I saw these 2 articles about how Chinese films are struggling overseas:

2015 article from Hollywood Reporter: Chinese Movies Still Struggle Overseas Despite Kung Fu's Global Appeal, Survey Shows

Chinese Films Struggling To Find An Audience Abroad

This isn't nothing new, it has been acknowledged since 2011 that Chinese films are struggling overseas despite the appeal of Kung fu film, and the popularity of Korean pop culture.

2011 article


2013 article

2013 Washington Times article

2015 article from South China Morning Post

Some reasons has been cited why Chinese films are struggling overseas:

"What we've found is that people tend to watch Chinese films through free channels instead of going to theaters," said Huang Huilin, director of the AICCC.

"Most of the participants watch Chinese films online. The Internet offers fertile and challenging ground for Chinese filmmakers to exploit. And also kung-fu and comedy are still the most popular types of Chinese films among overseas viewers."

According to a survey conducted by the Academy for International Communication of Chinese Culture (AICCC), 30 percent of respondents considered “the thoughts and logic of Chinese films difficult to understand”, while less than 40 percent identified with the “values” expressed in the films. A third of respondents simply said they weren’t interested in Chinese films.

The survey included 1,800 respondents from 46 different countries across Asia, the Middle East, and Europe.

One argument as to why Chinese films are struggling abroad is a lack of marketing. Less than eight percent of surveyed respondents noticed Chinese film advertisements in their home countries, while 36 percent claim they’ve never seen any marketing for Chinese films at all.

According to Sha Dan, with the China Film Archive, one solution to the marketing issue is more Chinese films that are co-produced with foreign production companies: “Commercial packaging is necessary for Chinese films if they want to be better accepted, no matter what genre it is,” said Sha.

Another issue is subtitles. 70 percent of respondents said they were unsatisfied with subtitles, which often amount to nothing more than literal translations without reflecting the scene’s context. “To have quality subtitles, one will need to understand both Chinese culture and the culture of the foreign country,” said Luo Jun, deputy head of the AICCC. “We need Chinese who know foreign cultures well and expats who have an abundant knowledge of Chinese culture.”

Feng Xiaogang, a director and actor who starred in the recent box office hit Mr Six, offers another explanation. Feng believes that Chinese films fail abroad because they are poorly made and hindered by domestic censorship regulations. Feng also questions the industry’s hiring practices: “Most of the people working in the lighting department are from Henan province,” said Feng at the recent Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC). “They are not trained professionally – they got the job simply because they happen to know someone who works on the film crew.”

I do somewhat agree about what is said above, but I could add one more reason: the global popularity of Hallyu/Korean Wave could be overshadowing Chinese films from gaining popularity and overseas profit. It might explain why Korean films are gaining more international attention outside of Asia then any big-name Chinese films. I don't see any similar article above for Korean films, so I have to assume they're doing very well.

What do you think is causing Chinese films not to gain audiences overseas when Korean pop culture like K-pop and K-dramas are winning more global audiences?

[Jimbo]

Not mentioned is the often-nationalistic tone of many of the mainland Chinese films. Of course, propaganda-type movies are made in virtually any country where movies are made, including the U.S. and South Korea. But so many of the mainland Chinese movies have been like that.

Certainly, South Korean pop culture is the "it" thing in Asia. It's seen as more "hip" than Chinese pop culture. I would also imagine that China's restrictive film censoring of subject/content isn't helping their movies' international popularity.

[mdo7]

Not mentioned is the often-nationalistic tone of many of the mainland Chinese films. Of course, propaganda-type movies are made in virtually any country where movies are made, including the U.S. and South Korea. But so many of the mainland Chinese movies have been like that.

I don't watch enough non Kung Fu/non-period and non-action cinema from China to give my thought on this. But if what you said about Chinese films contain nationalistic tone is true. That maybe another problem why Chinese films are losing overseas international audiences.

Certainly, South Korean pop culture is the "it" thing in Asia. It's seen as more "hip" than Chinese pop culture. I would also imagine that China's restrictive film censoring of subject/content isn't helping their movies' international popularity.

I do agree censorship can be another turn off for Chinese films not gaining overseas audiences. But regarding what I said about Korean pop culture is overshadowing Chinese film overseas audiences it does look more evident from my observation, so it's not only subtitle issues. Yeah I read this article and this seem to confirm my observation: Poor subtitles mar prospects of Chinese cinema abroad

I'm going to quote this from the article:

Different regions along the ancient Silk Road vary greatly in terms of the understanding of Chinese films, Huang says of the survey.

While Southeast Asian countries showed easier understanding of Chinese films despite language barriers due to cultural proximity, those in the Middle and Eastern Europe showed lower acceptance of the films.

Right there, at the bold/underline sentence. I emphasized that one because Korean pop culture is more well known in those area then Chinese films:



Iranians hooked on Korean TV drama

Korean drama: Cultural envoy for Iran

Korean drama boom in Iran to create business opportunities

First KCON in Middle East draws thousands

2006-Korean Broadcasts to Be Exported to Eastern Europe

and look what happened a few years later in Eastern Europe:

2010: Queen Seon Deok to air in Hungary

2011: Korean drama conquering Eastern Europe

Hallyu wave hits Romania

9 Korean Dramas airing in Romania

It's unbelievable, Korean TV dramas including period/saeguks can win more audiences then Chinese films. Some may say it maybe a subtitle or translation issues, but from my assessment it looks like Chinese films will have hard time gaining overseas audiences because Korean stuff as you said is more "hip and trendy" then Chinese films.

There something else I noticed on the same article:

Kung fu films remained the most popular genre, but its advantage over other genres wasn't obvious, according to the report.

Chinese films can no longer purely rely on martial arts to win foreign markets, Huang says.

So this seem to implied international fans of Kung fu films and HK action cinema never branch out to other genre in Chinese cinema. Is that the reason why Chinese cinema other then action and Kung fu never got a big audiences in US and Europe?

[Jimbo]

I don't watch enough non Kung Fu/non-period and non-action cinema from China to give my thought on this. But if what you said about Chinese films contain nationalistic tone is true. That maybe another problem why Chinese films are losing audiences.



I do agree censorship can be another turn off for Chinese films not gaining overseas audiences. But regarding what I said about Korean pop culture is overshadowing Chinese film overseas audiences it does look more evident from my observation, so it's not only subtitle issues. Yeah I read this article and this seem to confirm my observation: Poor subtitles mar prospects of Chinese cinema abroad

I'm going to quote this from the article:



Right there, at the bold/underline sentence. I emphasized that one because Korean pop culture is more well known in those area then Chinese films:



Iranians hooked on Korean TV drama

Korean drama: Cultural envoy for Iran

Korean drama boom in Iran to create business opportunities

First KCON in Middle East draws thousands

2006-Korean Broadcasts to Be Exported to Eastern Europe

and look what happened a few years later in Eastern Europe:

2010: Queen Seon Deok to air in Hungary

2011: Korean drama conquering Eastern Europe

Hallyu wave hits Romania

9 Korean Dramas airing in Romania

It's unbelievable, Korean TV dramas including period/saeguks can win more audiences then Chinese films. Some may say it maybe a subtitle or translation issues, but from my assessment it looks like Chinese films will have hard time gaining overseas audiences because Korean stuff as you said is more "hip and trendy" then Chinese films.

There something else I noticed on the same article:



So this seem to implied international fans of Kung fu films and HK action cinema never branch out to other genre in Chinese cinema. Is that the reason why Chinese cinema other then action and Kung fu never got a big audiences in US and Europe?

To be honest, I've only watched a few non-Kung Fu specific movies from mainland China, such as 1911 and Let the Bullets Fly. I would NOT consider Let the Bullets Fly to necessarily be nationalistic (though it might be; I only watched it once), but I didn't like it, nonetheless. I didn't think it was funny at all; I didn't get the storyline, and didn't care about the characters, either. I also thought the 'funny rape scene' to be in extremely poor taste. But surprisingly (to me), Let the Bullets Fly seems very popular among many Westerners who have seen it. And I didn't like 1911, either, but for different reasons.

IMO, the older Hong Kong KF and action movies had a very different spirit and feel to them than most of the mainland Chinese KF/action movies. Kind of hard to explain in a few words. IMO, some of the older HK comedies could be quite funny, as well. They were "edgier" in spirit than mainland flicks, IMO.

For myself, I like a number of the recent Korean action/suspense/gangster films (haven't watched many of their comedies yet). I think the characters are more relatable (in a Western sense, and apparently in some Middle Eastern areas as well) than many mainland movie characters.

[mdo7]

To be honest, I've only watched a few non-Kung Fu specific movies from mainland China, such as 1911 and Let the Bullets Fly. I would NOT consider Let the Bullets Fly to necessarily be nationalistic (though it might be; I only watched it once), but I didn't like it, nonetheless. I didn't think it was funny at all; I didn't get the storyline, and didn't care about the characters, either. I also thought the 'funny rape scene' to be in extremely poor taste. But surprisingly (to me), Let the Bullets Fly seems very popular among many Westerners who have seen it. And I didn't like 1911, either, but for different reasons.

Hm, I see. So whatever you said about why you don't like non-Kung fu cinema from Mainland China would that be the same reason why many Kung fu and HK action cinema fans never branch out to other genre in Chinese films. Regarding Let the bullet fly, despite having Chow Yun Fat and you said many westerners like that film, it didn't do well in the US and I'll quote:

Action-comedy “Let the Bullets Fly,” starring Chow Yun-fat, grossed $111 million at home but $63,000 in the United States, while action-fantasy “Painted Skin: The Resurrection,” starring Donnie Yen, earned $113 million domestically but $50,400 in the U.S., according to Hollywood.com.

So yeah, so much for popularity. As I said, I'm not 100% sure why that film didn't do well despite having Chow Yun-Fat in that film.

IMO, the older Hong Kong KF and action movies had a very different spirit and feel to them than most of the mainland Chinese KF/action movies. Kind of hard to explain in a few words. IMO, some of the older HK comedies could be quite funny, as well. They were "edgier" in spirit than mainland flicks, IMO.

I guess the censorship and restriction must be not making their Martial art genre "edgier". Also could you try your best to explain what you mean by HK and Mainland Chinese having "a very different spirit and feel"?

For myself, I like a number of the recent Korean action/suspense/gangster films (haven't watched many of their comedies yet). I think the characters are more relatable (in a Western sense, and apparently in some Middle Eastern areas as well) than many mainland movie characters.

I take it you haven't watch romance like for example Love Forecast (you can watch it on Dramafever, but you'll need a subscription to watch the film) or slice of life or high school one like for example, Hot Young Bloods (you can watch that film on Dramafever, again you need a subscription though). I don't know which other good Korean films out there you may like but they are diverse and they're very interesting.

Regarding the Middle East, I'm not 100% sure how many K-films has been shown, but I do know K-dramas are very popular in those area. The one that are popular in the Middle East are either idol dramas, period/saeguks, rom-coms, or serious romance genre are the one that appeal to Middle Eastern and Iranian audiences, same can be said for Eastern Europe. I'm not sure why Mainland China hasn't thought about marketing Nirvana in Fire to those area if they want K-drama fans to branch out to Chinese dramas and films. It simple, market and show Chinese TV dramas (both period and rom-com) like Nirvana in Fire and if it become popular, they'll branch out into Chinese cinema. I mean it work for Korean films, K-dramas with well-known idol actors or famous Korean actors/actresses and those fan of the drama and/or Korean celebrities ending up branching out to Korean films.

[Cataphract]

I find most recent Chinese productions "hollow". Grand gestures but a lacking story. Take the Yip Man movie for example. Perfect visuals but characters are totally flat. Yip Man is Mr. Perfect, the bad guys are perfectly evil. The problem is in the screenwriting.

[Jimbo]

I guess the censorship and restriction must be not making their Martial art genre "edgier". Also could you try your best to explain what you mean by HK and Mainland Chinese having "a very different spirit and feel"?

Actually, the older HK *movies* having a different spirit and feel. There seemed to be more variations of characters in the older HK films. Like I said, it's difficult to explain in a few words. Like in many mainland KF movies (as in Ip Man, for example), as Cataphract mentioned, the heroes are super-virtuous (to the point of being boring). I could say that Zhang Jin's character in Ip Man 3 was a bit different, as his being truly a 'good guy' or a 'bad guy' was indeterminate. More of a 'moral middle ground depending on his circumstances' character.

In some older HK KF movies, especially many of the KF comedies, the protagonists were not heroic at all; many were lazy good-for-nothings or even obnoxious con men who end up running afoul of villains whose crimes go further than their own. If done right, this mixture created some very entertaining and exciting movies. I can't think off-hand of any mainland KF films with such colorful characters.

Even one of my very favorite mainland KF films of the '80s, South Shaolin Master, features very dry, cardboard cutout heroes and villains, IMO. The heroes and their friends are virtuous 'G-rated' characters.