Body Structure Functional Application

[Knifefighter]

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Good one Sanjuro!! And as I believe that you said in passing before structure is activity specific.
Wing chun is not western boxing- though some motions may look similar.

joy chaudhuri

But fighting is fighting. And that is why, when people fight full contact, the mechanics you see in that pic will look much the same, no matter the style in terms of being able to apply the most efficient force to get the job done.

Theoretical non-fighters often think "their style" will not look like that. However, the fact of the matter is that under striking situations, that is a very common "structure" to see, regardless of style... even though, from a theoretical "structure" standpoint, that "structure" is less than ideal in any system.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Theoretical non-fighters(TM) often think "their style" will not look like that. However, the fact of the matter is that under striking situations, that is a very common "structure" to see, regardless of style.

Fixed that for you.

[k gledhill]

http://www.kungfu-center.de/index.php?id=42

structure in motion, hip in pole work, balanced movement around dummy, attacking with 2 arms that can each work the same as the other iow ambidextrous use.

[goju]

But fighting is fighting. And that is why, when people fight full contact, the mechanics you see in that pic will look much the same, no matter the style in terms of being able to apply the most efficient force to get the job done.

Theoretical non-fighters often think "their style" will not look like that. However, the fact of the matter is that under striking situations, that is a very common "structure" to see, regardless of style... even though, from a theoretical "structure" standpoint, that "structure" is less than ideal in any system.

do you just have a certain number of posts you repaste every time you're on here?

god god that poster was right that said some of you just like to hear yourselves talk

[lhetsler]

I don't mean to go off on a tangent here but i'm practicing wing chun and while application of upper body techniques is coming along okay, i'm having some trouble developing a strong and rooted stance. Does anyone have any ideas or exercises to build a strong stance that transfers weight down to the ground without compromising structure.

[SAAMAG]

I don't mean to go off on a tangent here but i'm practicing wing chun and while application of upper body techniques is coming along okay, i'm having some trouble developing a strong and rooted stance. Does anyone have any ideas or exercises to build a strong stance that transfers weight down to the ground without compromising structure.

Upper body techniques are nothing without the stance. Soooo I'd recommend stance training. If you want to fight, then you practice fighting. If your goal is to improve your stance, than you practice your stance (keep in mind though that you won't gain skill in fighting whilst doing this but will be improving support systems).

When practicing from a nejia perspective, you can do stance training which uses the mind eye's to drive your intent through imaging. Practice relaxing in your stance, imagining a black-hole of sorts in the ground below you. Imagine that black hole pulling you deeper and deeper into the ground. Make sure not to be overly tense in any part of your body--use only enough muscle to support your stance and nothing more. Believe it or not, this helps.

From a physical perspective, in doing this what happens is that your stance becomes lower. You will slowly condition your leg muscles to maintain a deeper stance until you reach the 1-fist distance between your knees (assuming you're working YGKYM). Your mind will eventually fade into infinity...and you will reach a sense of no-mind.

Hope this helps. Also...in my opinion everything should be roughly 50/50 weight unless you're moving to facilitate another movement. So while stance training make sure to be balanced, relaxed, and mentally serene.

[Knifefighter]

I don't mean to go off on a tangent here but i'm practicing wing chun and while application of upper body techniques is coming along okay, i'm having some trouble developing a strong and rooted stance. Does anyone have any ideas or exercises to build a strong stance that transfers weight down to the ground without compromising structure.

Last time I checked the laws of physics were still in place. That means you can't transfer weight into the ground.

[couch]

I don't mean to go off on a tangent here but i'm practicing wing chun and while application of upper body techniques is coming along okay, i'm having some trouble developing a strong and rooted stance. Does anyone have any ideas or exercises to build a strong stance that transfers weight down to the ground without compromising structure.

You're going to hear a load of answers here - so take it all and try it all and make it all your own.

While stance can take a long time to feel comfortable in, that static stance is not fight applicable. IMO, the WC stance is MOBILE and is designed to break down, get shoved and moved.

Don't believe that hype-crap of people standing one-legged on a weight-scale with three people trying to push them over. It's all trickery.

One really good thing the Chi Sau teaches is that push-pull energy that makes you constantly adjust your balance and stance.

Good luck in your training. Just stick with it and you'll eventually get it.

Best,
K

[chusauli]

Structure is a dynamic thing; not a dead, static, stand there thing.

The surfboard analogy was more like it. You are keeping your balance and your control of the opponent's balance.

[k gledhill]

I don't mean to go off on a tangent here but i'm practicing wing chun and while application of upper body techniques is coming along okay, i'm having some trouble developing a strong and rooted stance. Does anyone have any ideas or exercises to build a strong stance that transfers weight down to the ground without compromising structure.

seung ma toi ma drills ...

[Matrix]

I don't mean to go off on a tangent here but i'm practicing wing chun and while application of upper body techniques is coming along okay, i'm having some trouble developing a strong and rooted stance. Does anyone have any ideas or exercises to build a strong stance that transfers weight down to the ground without compromising structure.

IMO "upper body techniques" have limited use without the horse.
I just don't like the term "strong stance". You need to sink and relax the horse. I think of "strong" as applying muscular tension which goes against what you're trying to accomplish. I don't want to be too picky, so excuse me if I'm off base here.

Kevin's suggestion of seung ma toi ma drills is right on the mark as far as I'm concerned. You need to learn to relax and maintain your balance as you're being pushed and pulled around.

[YungChun]

IMO "upper body techniques" have limited use without the horse.
I just don't like the term "strong stance". You need to sink and relax the horse. I think of "strong" as applying muscular tension which goes against what you're trying to accomplish. I don't want to be too picky, so excuse me if I'm off base here.

Kevin's suggestion of seung ma toi ma drills is right on the mark as far as I'm concerned. You need to learn to relax and maintain your balance as you're being pushed and pulled around.

Right on the money..

lhetsler:

The training has to test/challenge your ability to manage lots of force/energy...

Good VT training will/should at some point have folks "blasting" push/pull/palming, etc, you all around the room... You should feel like you are on ice skates for the first time.. This is the good stuff.. If you are already doing this and worried because you feel like you are outside your comfort zone that's exactly how you should feel. If they never do anything like this, then head for the hills..

To manage force you will need to sink your weight, and hopefully apply the leg moves of VT in an alive manner.

What are you up to in the training?

[lhetsler]

Thanks for the advice everyone! Does anyone have any links to videos or instructions on seung ma toi ma drills? I'm really interested to see them and put them into practice with the other ideas.

I and a friend used to train a couple years back in wing chun under a teacher but before we could get very far he moved away, but we were able to soak in a lot of the basics and foundational concepts. I have wanted to continue training since then but I don't really have the money to learn from organized lessons so my friend and I have been using and instructional video set by Benny Meng in the Yip Man system. We've started at the base level again and we've learned the first form. We're also utilizing pak sau and lap sau/bong sau drills and applying techniques and concepts as we can. I realize however that without a good stance, the quality of our training is limited. I know it isn't exactly ideal to try to learn without a teacher so any further advice is certainly welcome!

[k gledhill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwaZxsYkEcU

this is seung ma / toi ma ..

Tan sao is used as an attacking entry from chi-sao drills, the partner responds with a inward elbow strike, the loose fist [relaxed wrist] should touch the chest of the guy stepping in with tan...we use the jaw or the chest area to keep the elbows low for good habits....low elbows make good technique.

in several stages for development: a= tansao attacking entry, b = jumstrike angle offline counter
1:
a] steps in with tan sao from chisao,
b jum strikes and if stale mated moves back in a straight line .

this is a trying to knock you on your arse , you take a step back and make the distance to stay balanced and strike distances are manitained...always be able to place a loose fist on the tip of the partners jaw... important for distance training. Your not training to feel the arm but use it as a marker to develop your strikes and angles.
you can do this in rotation, then becoming random to make you think less...if you get unstable slow down and check the stance hips forwards knees bent, move the BACK FOOT FIRST if going backwards, common error easily taken advantage of to destabilize each other is the wrong shuffle step sequences under pressure of attacking entry.
Dont do more than 2 push attempts and steps back, or you get bad habits of sumo vt : )


2:
a ] tan takes a 1/2 step in towards partner , 1/2 step so partner can angle early enough to make contact on chest, DONT block arm , strike past arm AND use inward elbow at the same time, the elbow covers the angle to stop entry , the fist hits at the same time.

b] takes a step 45 degrees backwards offline to the tan saos aim, not sideways or pivoting in the same spot , so when the guy doing the 1/2 step stops , hes stopping so the partner can adjust and fix all the angles arm positions etc...mutual ...the tan doesnt leave the centerline, it should, along with your other striking arm in fok sao, aim along your centerline, thats importnat....use the alignment of the tan sao to move and angle the jum sao/elbows.

a] because your attacking entry , you cant just throw all your momentum in one direction with so much force you cant reface a guy angling on your entry....so you face the partners movement, by turning to face them again ...because you only did a small 1/2 step, its easy to do a slight turn and carry on attacking / facing...if you took too big a step you have to make big foot and facing changes....small 1/2 step allows a 'stalking' attaking entry to a moving target. tip try to keep both arms in contact facing squarely as you progress..iow we dont fight with 2 extended arms like chi-sao...but the drill teaches us that each arm should reach equally all the time as each is striking / attacking..important.

b ] is waiting for 'a' to reface and step in again to 'test' the positions of 'b' stance elbow , jum strike...is it ready to accept force ? yes lets see.....a steps in and b rides the force by moving the back foot first [or you fall down easy] ...the test only requires 2 steps if good , dont do bad habit of pushing more than 2 times.

a] simply keeps the tan aligned with jum and 1/2 steps then steps facing again in 2 stages for helping to get to the next stages of NO 1/2 STEP stoppoing , simply one flowing step attacking entry flowing to move to face the angling attempt....

as you progress you dont do the 1/2 step stop and check...it becomes fluid random entry counter from each other and you think less about what side to move to counter and use tactical ideas of isolating one 1/2 of the opponent from his other 1/2....fighting 1/2 the opponent is your goal with 100% of your attacking techniques, thats why we face to strike with each arm...overwhelming quickly, not facing , clinching ,


tactically the role of the tan sao becomes a leading grab/jab/ strike/ pull attempt etc... and how you can move off the line of force entry towards you...dont go back in astraight line or the guy can simply close his eyes andshoot your legs because he knows how your moving...in a straight line backwards .
Angling can be random and even if you dont make the right choice you know tactically what your after....1/2 the opponent, which 1/2 is up to them to show you


preceeding drills like dan chi-sao are required to have the striking a strike with a strike idea always working iow tan strike versus jum strike taken to seung ma toi ma drills....dont try to feel or block the wrist areas with downward force of the wrists, BAD HABIT,,,strike each other using the elbows to fend off each others arm attacks...

a good example of basic elbow ideas is to take your arm and move it a foot sideways to your centerline then slap your ELBOW to the line as fast as you can WITHOUT letting your wrists x past the center line...like a pak sao and elbowpak sao...try to make the same energy of pak sao with your elbow ..if its sharp enough force and fast you can try to displace an arm held along your centerline by a partner to slap off the line with your inside elbow forearm area...

feel free to ask many questions

[Knifefighter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwaZxsYkEcU

this is seung ma / toi ma ..

Compare that theoretical non-fighting nonsense video "structure" with the structure used in systems that actually do realistic movements against other skilled opponents who are also doing realistic movements:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shtzE6brI08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k2oXxEOyUQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXVLC...eature=related

Notice how the "structure" among people who are actually going full force against resisting opponents is completely different than what you see in that chi sao video.