The basic WCK punch

[couch]

Okay. Please read what I wrote above and explain how the sort of brutal approach you describe here would benefit a beginner, maybe female, who has very soft muscles, tendons and bones?

I understand your point. I always have! Practise by DOING! I get it!

But how do you get yourself (and others) to the relevant skill level to be able to just do what you're describing? Without getting injured?

Let me help:

1. Headgear (facecage optional)
2. Gloves (from MMA to Pillows/Boxing if you like)
3. Mouthguard
4. Cup

Problem is what you have written: "Without getting injured." What do you consider 'getting injured' to be? Because if bruises, bust up lips, bleeding noses and seeing stars consists of 'getting injured,' martial arts is the wrong venture.

Hell, even the crappy (TIC) 'sport-based' martial arts like BJJ that have taken teh deadly strikes taken out have injuries such as sprains and strains all the time.

Knitting (*maybe) might be the only thing that has a low injury rate.

And lastly, about your "beginner, maybe female, who has very soft muscles, tendons and bones." None of those attributes have anything to do with fighting and/or self-defense. If we take Wing Chun, for example, it has a curriculum to build someone up from the ground up. So after the drills and Chi Sau, comes the Goh Sau and then the sparring.

Looking at a boxing gym, first you start with the cardio needed to perform the task, then you're introduced to punching the heavy bag, then you work the pads with a trainer, then you work with a partner - nice and light - feeding each other shots, going back and forth, etc...then you get in the ring and spar and spar and spar. Same thing...from the ground up.

Best,
CTK

[Pacman]

I've been in WCK almost 30 years and never heard of any lineage/branch that teaches "the top arms represent a jab or a right cross and vice versa, the mid arm to represent a mid attack and the leg to represent a kick." Perhaps I've just been fortunate.

if they dont represent a punch or a kick, what do they represent?

[t_niehoff]

if they dont represent a punch or a kick, what do they represent?

They represent arms and legs.

[t_niehoff]

This thread is proof positive that T. is a novice when it comes to WC application.

You are a troll. You don't train WCK. So why do you post on a WCK forum? Troll.

[t_niehoff]

I have to agree to disagree T

Whether you agree or disagree is immaterial -- it is just a fact: we only get better at doing X by practicing doing X.

If you're talking about developing attributes that contribute towards the objective, then there is nothing wrong with putting those heavy knives in your hand. Just like there's nothing wrong in developing the forearm impact strength by drilling the fistwork on the wooden man. They both help towards your objective imho.

None of that "develops" those things you say it does. That's all nonsense. When you do the knife form, you are not doing the movement, using the mechanics, etc. of what you do with empty hands -- nor would it make any sense to.

If I was a new student and you put me infront of a live opponent and we start to punch eachother how quick do you think I would develop? And what exactly have I got to overcome to gain from the exercise?

You only develop the ability to break an opponent's structure via the punch by practicing that. That's what the punch is for. If you aren't doing that, then you aren't training the punch. And if your opponent isn't really trying to hit you, you aren't learning how to deal with a punch. Then, it is all fantasy bullsh1t, my pretend punch versus your pretend defense.

One thing, there's no fear standing in front of a piece of wood, and I personally would have anyone drill through that first before even asking them to stand in front of a human being! But maybe that's just because that's the way I was taught?

Then you were taught poorly.

Okay. Please read what I wrote above and explain how the sort of brutal approach you describe here would benefit a beginner, maybe female, who has very soft muscles, tendons and bones?

I understand your point. I always have! Practise by DOING! I get it!

But how do you get yourself (and others) to the relevant skill level to be able to just do what you're describing? Without getting injured?

Every time I punch, EVERY TIME (in chi sao, in sparring, whenever), when I punch, it is to break my opponent's structure. The punch isn't sticking your arm out in the air -- it is to DO something, and if you don't practice DOING it, you won't be able to do it. If you punch without doing that, you are training to fail. Period.

If someone doesn't want to train that way, then don't. But you will forever suck because you won't be doing what you need to do to develop skill. We're learning a martial art for goodness sake, it is a CONTACT SPORT, like rugby.

[k gledhill]

man in a glass booth time ..wheres the volume ?

[Graham H]

They represent arms and legs.

Explain?

GH

[t_niehoff]

man in a glass booth time ..wheres the volume ?

Look, it's rather simple . . . you can do what Bayer does, all arm "punches" that really don't hit anything or do anything to an opponent . . . and get really "good" at pretend punching (I will punch the air or tap you but just imagine, if you will, what would happen if I really did hit you!) or you can practice actually punching someone, seeing form and hitting form, seeing shadow and hitting shadow, and destroying anything you hit, practicing hitting with your body structure instead of your arm -- in other words, actually using the WCK punch.

[t_niehoff]

Explain?

GH

The dummy arms and leg represent our opponent's limbs, not specific actions or attacks they are making with the limbs.

[k gledhill]

Look, it's rather simple . . . you can do what Bayer does, all arm "punches" that really don't hit anything or do anything to an opponent . . . and get really "good" at pretend punching (I will punch the air or tap you but just imagine, if you will, what would happen if I really did hit you!) or you can practice actually punching someone, seeing form and hitting form, seeing shadow and hitting shadow, and destroying anything you hit, practicing hitting with your body structure instead of your arm -- in other words, actually using the WCK punch.

It's time for words to stop, you simply don't understand whats being developed....you can waffle on about whatever you seem to 'see', but until YOU stand in front of PB and exchange 'ideas' you wont understand. Its not something you see, like jum sao energy, you dont see it in the SLT form as its being performed, or energy in general, we see shapes and equate similar ideas we have to them....not.

It takes a little shift in your imagination...I got to a level of training under a direct student of YM that left me looking for answers that WSL had given PB...those answers opened up a whole new view of the system...one that you havent seen yet.

I might suggest as a fellow family member, who actually wants your VT to improve , to visit him in Germany...if your serious about VT .

I have been around and seen a lot....why would I drop it all for PB idea ?

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Another personality cult in the making, I see.

[k gledhill]

Another personality cult in the making, I see.

technique cult....PB isnt marketing himself

[martyg]

technique cult....PB isnt marketing himself

Lol, with people like you why would he have to? Though I don't see how statements like "but until YOU stand in front of PB", "...looking for answers that WSL had given PB", "to visit him in Germany...if your serious about VT ", and "why would I drop it all for PB idea" (and that's just in one posting) are anything but promoting Philipp Bayer. Unless PB is a technique? Perfect Bong? Praying Buddha?

[k gledhill]

Lol, with people like you why would he have to? Though I don't see how statements like "but until YOU stand in front of PB", "...looking for answers that WSL had given PB", "to visit him in Germany...if your serious about VT ", and "why would I drop it all for PB idea" (and that's just in one posting) are anything but promoting Philipp Bayer. Unless PB is a technique? Perfect Bong? Praying Buddha?

You might try too, your arrogance in replies is becoming regular...

[Xiao3 Meng4]

technique cult....PB isnt marketing himself

A cult's a cult. 'Nuff said.

Is Ad Hominem abuse and insulting critics a part of your cult training too, or does that come from your own personality disorder?