The MMA Fad

[Knifefighter]

But you are suggesting that is the norm in TCMA. I've seen otherwise. Sparring usually shows up in some form at most schools. Some do it later in the training, some start out with it.

My point is that flailing about like a monkey against a mutually flailing monkey has very little training value, despite the fact that everyone is sweaty and worn out, and sometimes end up with bloody noses and overextended arms. Argue all you like, but I've seen both sides of the fence.

So, have I and I know which method works better.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

flailing about like a monkey against a mutually flailing monkey has very little training value

Hence the importance of sparring objectives. If there's an objective, there's intent. If there's intent, there's a drive to manifest that intent effectively. With good sparring objectives and a bit of instruction, the "monkey flailing" gets tried and discarded relatively quickly, making room for more effective techniques with respect to the objective.

[Knifefighter]

Hence the importance of sparring objectives. If there's an objective, there's intent. If there's intent, there's a drive to manifest that intent effectively. With good sparring objectives and a bit of instruction, the "monkey flailing" gets tried and discarded relatively quickly, making room for more effective techniques with respect to the objective.

There ya go!

[Frost]

But you are suggesting that is the norm in TCMA. I've seen otherwise. Sparring usually shows up in some form at most schools. Some do it later in the training, some start out with it.

My point is that flailing about like a monkey against a mutually flailing monkey has very little training value, despite the fact that everyone is sweaty and worn out, and sometimes end up with bloody noses and overextended arms. Argue all you like, but I've seen both sides of the fence.

but if someone does years of training, doing forms applications etc and it turns turn out to be useless once you start sparring and you STILL look like a flailing monkey why bother with all that stuff, why not get the flailing out of the way first get used to pressure and go from there. Why moan about it creating bad habbits when everyone looks like that be it a first time boxer or a 4 year old form student? if all that correct form training goes out the window when contact is made is it useful?

and people in kick boxing and boxing classes may look bad when they first spar but they still look like they train and how the seniors spar, the same cant be said of any sparring clips put up by traditional schools, at least none i have seen

[m1k3]

All the people who go to commercial schools,have a day job,are over 35,majority of females,senior citizens,don't want to train in or compete in MMA or full contact. But according to some here they are wasting their time, and should quit doing froms, and fight full contact in the ring hit pads only, do hard contact sparring regularly.



Steven K Hayes the Ninja guy once said "not everyone can be an athlete ,but everyone can learn how to defend themselves".and also people who want to do exercise,have the right to. And then there is the point of just doing what you like to do. Unless you are Hilter reincarnated,leading us to a new world order,who give a f45k if you think all people should quit doing froms and train your way.

I want to respond to 2 parts of your post. 1st you don't know anything about MMA gyms. I am a 56 year old hobbyist who trains BJJ at an MMA gym. You train at the level you can do and you don't have to compete. That doesn't mean you can't train realistically against a resisting partner. The school I train at has everyone from hobbyists like myself to pros who compete in MT and MMA. (See my sig for info about my school)

The 2nd part is everyone can be an athlete. Being an athlete doesn't mean its a full time job or you are a high level competitor. It just means you get out there and train and push yourself.

I don't know why so many of you TCMA guys have so much anger. I never see that at the MMA gym.

[MightyB]

but if someone does years of training, doing forms applications etc and it turns turn out to be useless once you start sparring and you STILL look like a flailing monkey why bother with all that stuff, why not get the flailing out of the way first get used to pressure and go from there. Why moan about it creating bad habbits when everyone looks like that be it a first time boxer or a 4 year old form student? if all that correct form training goes out the window when contact is made is it useful?

and people in kick boxing and boxing classes may look bad when they first spar but they still look like they train and how the seniors spar, the same cant be said of any sparring clips put up by traditional schools, at least none i have seen

You sir speaketh the truth and I salute you.

[MightyB]

There's pragmatism in training Judo, Shuai Jiao, Jiu Jitsu, MMA, Thai, boxing, San Da, or wrestling and not being a fighter yourself.

It's simply this: You have the benefit of their (instructors and fellow club members) direct combat experience... strike and change that last sentence... their verified and proven combat experience. You get that even if you yourself aren't a fighter. This isn't pretend stuff passed down from a dead guy that may or may not even have existed... this is stuff from a living breathing experienced individual.

And - it doesn't have to be in conflict with what you've already learned in TCMA. This isn't a this or that scenario - you can do both. There's a lot of value in TCMA - most of it's been obscured by years of neglect - it's there, we just have to admit that sometimes the best way to find something is by attacking it from another angle. I find that by training sport, my traditional gets better. I'm not unique. A lot of people on this very forum have found the same thing. There will come a point when we may all want to develop into the deeper more profound aspects of the arts. At that time you may say that was the point of MA the whole time so why did we waste our time with that silly sport fighting stuff. Then we'd kick your @rse while begrudgingly admitting that you may have had a point.

[YouKnowWho]

This isn't a this or that scenario - you can do both.

Some TCMA training method can be used in MMA training too.

http://johnswang.com/sc15.wmv
http://johnswang.com/sc20.wmv

[wiz cool c]

I'm not against MMA,if any of you guys read Kung Fu Tai Chi two issues ago I wrote an article on Shuai Jiao and MMA connection in china. My last coach here is a pro MMA fighter with a Shuai Jiao background. But it has become a fad with every Tom, **** and Harry jumping on the bandwagon.

Kung fu is a great art,sport and self defence system, Yes it has its short falls and does need to make some changes to be the most it can be. But One does not need to abandone all one's traditional training methods and take up MMA,to please a few knuckle heads. I am living proff of this, i am doing judo in southern china now at 40 and kick 20 year olds asses on a regular. All my strenght and stamina training is traditional forms,standing,rings,and other training methods, and these guys are getting winded when i'm fresh. Next month I got a comp,see how it goes. I will do some taping as well.

[bawang]

YOU wrote magazine articles? did they pay you? how can i get gene ching to pay me for writing articles? i can write all day man
pls gene ching i need monies

[gunbeatskroty]

I'm not against MMA,if any of you guys read Kung Fu Tai Chi two issues ago I wrote an article on Shuai Jiao and MMA connection in china. My last coach here is a pro MMA fighter with a Shuai Jiao background. But it has become a fad with every Tom, **** and Harry jumping on the bandwagon.

The same can be said about KF in the 70's and early 80's after Enter the Dragon became a hit and everyone jumped on the Bruce Lee KF bandwagon. Then it was TKD and their McDojos in the late 80's to early 90's.

Now it's MMA, but with the significance being, the Gracies put their money where their mouths were and pompously challenged the world of MA and allowed everything in their fights, including biting, eye gouging, nut strikes, pressure points, etc. Then UFC 1-4 was pretty eye opening and IMO, revolutionized MA.

People can train in MA for w/e reasons they want. Personally for me, I want train for fitness & competition. I want to test my skills in an all out battle. I like to spar hard. I don't care to learn about the Asian culture nor learning fancy Asian words for a hip throw, or w/e...especially when I'm paying $150/month tuition in a 1 year contract. English is my primary language. Just call it a hip throw and teach me something else. I'm already Asian and don't want to learn Japanese, Chinese, Thai, w/e. I'm none of these Asians, and I don't have an Asian fetish like some non-Asians do. That's one of the reasons I left this one Traditional Jiu-Jitsu school... these Whiteguys kept insisting that I learn the freaking Japanese term for each technique. It's **** hard.

I like MMA b/c there's less fluff. We warm up, we learn drill techniques and then we spar. 90 minutes w/very little rest. Then there are fights and competitions just about every 2 months to test what really works.

[San Soo Sifu]

Now it's MMA, but with the significance being, the Gracies put their money where their mouths were and pompously challenged the world of MA and allowed everything in their fights, including biting, eye gouging, nut strikes, pressure points, etc.

Not true at all. The facts are...

1. Eye gouging was/is NEVER allowed.
2. Biting was/is NEVER allowed.
3. (No fish hooking became a by-product of no biting, i.e. don't stick your fingers in my mouth if I cannot bite them off.)
4. Groin strikes were NOT allowed in UFC 1; but then they were allowed starting in UFC 2. Watch Keith Hackney pound the groin of Joe Son in UFC 4. Athletic supporters with banana cups were allowed to be worn. Groin strikes were/are NOT allowed again from UFC 14 to the present.

Sources:
1. My excellent memory (and when my memory fails me)...
2. Google, and...
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimat...g_Championship

I notice your screen name is gunbeatskroty (Gun Beats Karate).
If we were to be intellectually honest, then...

Gun Beats Mixed Martial Arts (MMA)
Gun Beats Gracie Jiu-Jitsu (GJJ)
Gun Beats Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ)

P.S. I live in a "shall issue" state for law abiding citizens; and I'm a law abiding citizen.

[SoCo KungFu]

Not true at all. The facts are...

1. Eye gouging was/is NEVER allowed.
2. Biting was/is NEVER allowed.
3. (No fish hooking became a by-product of no biting, i.e. don't stick your fingers in my mouth if I cannot bite them off.)
4. Groin strikes were NOT allowed in UFC 1; but then they were allowed starting in UFC 2. Watch Keith Hackney pound the groin of Joe Son in UFC 4. Athletic supporters with banana cups were allowed to be worn. Groin strikes were/are NOT allowed again from UFC 14 to the present.

Sources:
1. My excellent memory (and when my memory fails me)...
2. Google, and...
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimat...g_Championship

Your "facts" suck. Gracies were doing challenge fights long before coming into UFC.

[gunbeatskroty]

Not true at all. The facts are...

1. Eye gouging was/is NEVER allowed.
2. Biting was/is NEVER allowed.
3. (No fish hooking became a by-product of no biting, i.e. don't stick your fingers in my mouth if I cannot bite them off.)
4. Groin strikes were NOT allowed in UFC 1; but then they were allowed starting in UFC 2. Watch Keith Hackney pound the groin of Joe Son in UFC 4. Athletic supporters with banana cups were allowed to be worn. Groin strikes were/are NOT allowed again from UFC 14 to the present.

Sources:
1. My excellent memory (and when my memory fails me)...
2. Google, and...
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimat...g_Championship

You clearly MISREAD what I wrote.

I am referring to the Gracie's challenges with no rules and not the UFC. The Gracies' challenge allowed all of the above. Some fights were fought behind closed doors with video for proof. Jason Delucia (Kung Fu) fought in one and it's on YouTube. He tried to eyegouge Royce Gracie, which is why Gracie didn't choke him out when he clearly had that RNC...and just wanted to beat on him from the mount.

[gunbeatskroty]

Not true at all. The facts are...

1. Eye gouging was/is NEVER allowed.
2. Biting was/is NEVER allowed.
3. (No fish hooking became a by-product of no biting, i.e. don't stick your fingers in my mouth if I cannot bite them off.)
4. Groin strikes were NOT allowed in UFC 1; but then they were allowed starting in UFC 2. Watch Keith Hackney pound the groin of Joe Son in UFC 4. Athletic supporters with banana cups were allowed to be worn. Groin strikes were/are NOT allowed again from UFC 14 to the present.

Also, for UFC 1-4, eye gouging, biting, fish hooking & groin strikes did not disqualify a fighter nor ended the fight. The fighter gets FINED $1,000 for each infraction and could actually still win the fight but may end up with less or no prize money.

They received a certain amount for fighting, more for winning each fight and about $65,000 for winning the finals.