What is Inch Power

[YouKnowWho]

The "inch force" in TCMA is also called "抖(Dou) - shaking". It can be employed as part of any offense or defense, emphasizing the explosive and instantaneous generation of force. It's very useful in the clinching situation. You can use it for offense and shake your opponent's body to force him to make certain commitment so you can take advantage on it. You can also use it in defense to stop your oppponent force when he tries to generate it. For example, in clinching when you can sense (by using your Tinjing) your opponent who tries to punch you with his right arm, you can just use your "inch force" to hit on his right shoulder.

[Yoshiyahu]

The inch force in TCMA is also called "抖(Dou) - shaking". It can be employed as part of any offense or defense, emphasizing the explosive and instantaneous generation of force. It's very useful in the clinching situation. You can use it for offense and shake your opponent's body to force him to make certain commitment so you can take advantage on it. You can also use it in defense to stop your oppponent force when he tries to generate it. For example, in clinching when you can sense (by using your Tinjing) your opponent who tries to punch you with his right arm, you can just use your "抖(Dou) - shaking" to hit on his right shoulder.

The Shaking Force is Jing or Geng...Not inch power!

[YouKnowWho]

The Shaking Force is Jing or Geng...Not inch power!

寸勁(Cun Jing) = inch force

Jing = force = power.

Jing has "long Jing" and "short Jing". The inch power is the "short Jing". The short Jing, vibration Jing, or shanking Jing are the samething but sometime people may call it differently. The Jing doesn't have to go forward, it can go backward, upward, or downward as well.

[Yoshiyahu]

Jing = force = power.

Jing has "long Jing" and "short Jing". The inch power is the "short Jing". The short Jing, vibration Jing, or shanking Jing are the samething but sometime people may call it differently. The Jing doesn't have to go forward. It can go backward as well.

There are Eight different Jings in WC. Shaking or Vibrating palm or shaking body is not the Geng for inch power!

[kfman5F]

Mass x Acceleration = Force applied with sequential muscle contraction in the shortest distance.

[LoneTiger108]

Spencer, that really sounds perverted! What? Smiled? Special training? Back room? Blew him away? Orgasmic spasms? Spencer and his Sifu? WTF? LOL!

Its only YOUR pervy comments that made me sound like that dude And your pervy mind that almost derailed a good little thread imo!

Now, is BL doing WCK with his inch punch demo?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS6aMdskKSo

In a word, yes.

He preferred the use of 'side body' juksan alignment whereas Jim Demile always hit square-on jinsan alignment. I think the questio is, if inch power is so 'out there' already and all Martial Arts use it, why had nobody demonstrated anything before Bruce in the 1960's?

My point is, nobody DID know it back then and if they did they never showed it publically. So if all Martial Arts has this, it may well be because of Bruce. And Bruce had this because of Wing Chun imho as inch power is considered a speciality of our style more so than any other Chinese style/system from North or South!

[sanjuro_ronin]

I recall the first time I saw "short power" ( I am not a fan of the term inch power) in an actual sparring match and not a demo.Well, I should say that I saw the results of it not IT per say.
Afterwards the SPM sifu told me, quite simply that "if you can see it, it's not there" and while I learned that yes, you CAN see it, his point was that it is NOT something that is apparent in sparring/fighting.
In demos you typiclaly see the "pushing short power" and not the explosive or striking short power and that is what BL was demoing.
Explosive short power does NOT push, the person/target, basically just "collapses".
Think a short hook that drops a person in their tracks and they crumple to the floor.
Think a short strike to the liver or SP that does makes the person drop where they stand.

[LoneTiger108]

Think a short strike to the liver or SP that does makes the person drop where they stand.

Agreed. Also noted that the guy you saw was a SPM practitioner/Sifu (?) so they must have this too? Could Bruce have picked up the idea from there instead of Wing Chun? I know he learnt some mook jong, and that is where I learnt about choon ging.

I've demoed and used this too and it is exactly right what you say. For demo you make it so the person flies across the room but for real they just drop where they stand (if you hit in a good sweet spot!)

[CFT]

All short bridge systems should have short power otherwise what good would it be? To "play" in the short range but not be able to hit. So WCK, Bak Mei, Lung Ying (Dragon Style), SPM, etc. should have it.

[martyg]

Mass x Acceleration = Force applied with sequential muscle contraction in the shortest distance.

If only the complexities of dynamics and interaction in physics could actually be summed up by a grade school level formula.

I always love when someone tries to trot that one out.

[KPM]

Hey Spencer!

I think the questio is, if inch power is so 'out there' already and all Martial Arts use it, why had nobody demonstrated anything before Bruce in the 1960's?

---Gung Fu in general was not as well known as Karate in the 1960's. The Gung Fu that was demonstrated publically was lion dancing and flashy forms. So its no wonder that no one had publically displayed "inch power" prior to Bruce.

So if all Martial Arts has this, it may well be because of Bruce.

---No, I don't think so. Bruce may have been very influential, but I think "inch power" had been part of most southern Gung Fu styles for a long time before him!


And Bruce had this because of Wing Chun imho as inch power is considered a speciality of our style more so than any other Chinese style/system from North or South!

---Now that's where Bruce's influence is most likely seen! Wing Chun became known for its "inch power" due to Bruce Lee. But that doesn't mean that Wing Chun is better at it than other styles. If Bruce's background had been in SPM, then its likely SPM would have gotten all of the acclaim rather than WCK. And from what I've seen, styles like SPM and Bak Mei put more emphasis on "inch power" than WCK does.

[kfman5F]

If only the complexities of dynamics and interaction in physics could actually be summed up by a grade school level formula.

I always love when someone tries to trot that one out.

If you are so knowledgeable, then why don't you "trot" that one out. I suppose you are an expert. I did not intend to go into a dissertation with that "simplistic" statement. And I seriously doubt that most grade school kids would understand that. Rather than being negative, why don't you contribute or comment in a positive way.

[martyg]

If you are so knowledgeable, then why don't you "trot" that one out. I suppose you are an expert.

I suppose you're being just a tad melodramatic.

I did not intend to go into a dissertation with that "simplistic" statement.

A dissertation wasn't required. This isn't mine (or a lot of other people's) first rodeo here, the F=M*A thing has been thrown out many times over the last 20+ years of online Wing Chun discussion. Usually with the implication that speed is somehow very important to the generation of short power. And every time, people with a background in physics (and yes, in answer to your question I was trained in Calculus based physics) discuss how it doesn't come close to actually modeling what goes on with two interacting structures. Hence if someone throws it in to the ring again, I'm going to comment on it in those regards. You can read in to that whatever you like, as it appears you already are.

And I seriously doubt that most grade school kids would understand that.

Grade school here = K-12. And is defined as the notion of dividing up education in to "grades". I first learned F=M*A in basic 10th grade physics back in the 80's and school programs have certainly evolved since then. Unless you mistook me to be discussing elementary school or middle school grades.

Rather than being negative, why don't you contribute or comment in a positive way.

I don't recall doing anything except saying (in a friendly joking manner) that the actual complexities of dynamics and interaction in physics are not modeled in that equation. Nor are they intended to be. Even in that basic equation what you're talking about is Net Force, i.e. the summation of forces.

And in this case we're talking about the summation of forces between two or more objects. This includes needing to take in to account mechanisms of generation, transference, and reception. This further includes taking in to account equations for the motion of rigid and non-rigid bodies ("bodies" being objects here, as in the individual parts that make up the entire mechanisms in each). There's also interference via force vectors being directed back in to the generating mechanism, etc. And of course there's gravity and more.

I.E. if you apply it to the act of a cannon firing a cannon ball, it fails to take in to account very important things and just focuses on the cannon ball - as if nothing else exists. Things like what's the base of the cannon made out of, is it anchored, how long is the tube, what's the cannonball made out of, what's it's diameter, what's it's spin ratio, how does the atmosphere it travels through effect it, what's the angle of the surface it's hitting, what's the material strength, is it in motion as well, etc. etc.

So even without all that laid out for you, in a less space and time consuming manner, the F is talking about the release in to an end object which in turn causes that mass to accelerate. Mass or inertia is serving as a proportionality constant between the net forces. Acceleration is the effect of what's happening - i.e. even in your own half of the mechanism, you have a net force being exerted on the individual parts (usually by way of your musculature system) getting them to move one after another until in unison your fist is traversing space (along with all the other parts). This Net force is the cause of objects accelerating, both the previously mentioned mechanism and the other half - your opponent's mechanism. With the end result being some displacement of the receiving object. And in those terms then, the F or Net Force is a vector sum of all the forces acting on the mechanism from outside.

This is all very important to understand and take in to account, because the bottom line is that it accounts for the fact that not everyone here (or even every art for that matter) performs "short power" the same way. There's lots of differences in the generation mechanism, and rightly so. In the case of an already in contact "short power", acceleration may have a far less magnitude (i.e. play less of a part) in what I do than someone else who may rely on more rigidity in their mechanism and quick sudden acceleration.

Hope that explains my position a bit better. I've just seen to many conversations devolve once F=M*A is brought out, because the "speed heads" usually gravitate towards it to try and dominate the discussion.

[YungChun]

Hey Spencer!

I think the questio is, if inch power is so 'out there' already and all Martial Arts use it, why had nobody demonstrated anything before Bruce in the 1960's?

---Gung Fu in general was not as well known as Karate in the 1960's. The Gung Fu that was demonstrated publically was lion dancing and flashy forms. So its no wonder that no one had publically displayed "inch power" prior to Bruce.

So if all Martial Arts has this, it may well be because of Bruce.

---No, I don't think so. Bruce may have been very influential, but I think "inch power" had been part of most southern Gung Fu styles for a long time before him!


And Bruce had this because of Wing Chun imho as inch power is considered a speciality of our style more so than any other Chinese style/system from North or South!

---Now that's where Bruce's influence is most likely seen! Wing Chun became known for its "inch power" due to Bruce Lee. But that doesn't mean that Wing Chun is better at it than other styles. If Bruce's background had been in SPM, then its likely SPM would have gotten all of the acclaim rather than WCK. And from what I've seen, styles like SPM and Bak Mei put more emphasis on "inch power" than WCK does.

Nothing new about short power then or now..with possible exception being in certain circles, of eg TMA.. Close range inside fighters have always had to use short power... The way Bruce shows it is a tad odd IMO...but that was a demo...

Can anyone explain the difference in what has been termed "fa jing" and "fou jing" or any other kind of jing?

[YungChun]

In demos you typically see the "pushing short power" and not the explosive or striking short power and that is what BL was demoing.
Explosive short power does NOT push, the person/target, basically just "collapses".
Think a short hook that drops a person in their tracks and they crumple to the floor.
Think a short strike to the liver or SP that does makes the person drop where they stand.

Which is what I don't see in Bruce's demo, he is pushing and that's why the guy goes flying...