Originally Posted by
LFJ
Hendrik- I'm not sure if you're just ignoring my posts, or choosing not to acknowledge them...
"Such people as these kill and eat one another in a never-ending cycle."
You think this section is talking about anyone who eats meat? So anyone who eats meat is guilty of killing? Can you explain how so?
I've already said;
Present actions cannot be causes for effects that take place in the past.
That means someone's present choice to eat meat cannot be the cause for the animal being killed, when it had long since been dead before the desire to eat meat arose.
Furthermore, creating the karma of killing requires five conditions;
1) a being
2) awareness of the being
3) intention of killing
4) effort to kill
5) consequent death
This means if someone is target shooting outdoors for sport, and the bullet strikes and kills an animal in the distance, not all five conditions are present. No awareness of the being, no intent to kill, no effort to kill. So the shooter does not acquire the karma of killing in the accidental death of the animal.
Likewise, if a hunter is actively searching for animals, locates an animal, and intending to kill it makes an effort by firing their gun at the animal, but misses... then although he had unwholesome mental states, he did not commit the karma of killing because there was no accomplishment in the task. He did not kill.
Now in the case of eating meat....,
In having meat on your plate and eating it, the animal which provided that meat has long since been dead and the meat no longer has a mind-stream. In the act of eating the meat there is no 1) being (no mind-stream), which means conditions 2 through 5 cannot be present. There is no intent to kill, effort to kill, or consequent death.
So in the section of the Śūraṅgama Sūtra, "these people who eat meat" refers to "Such people as these kill and eat one another in a never-ending cycle".
That means those who "kill and have thoughts of killing" and then eat what they've killed (refer to the five conditions for the karma of killing), not just anyone who eats meat.
This section of the Śūraṅgama Sūtra is only about ceasing 3 actions;
1) lusting
2) killing
3) stealing
Vegetarianism is prescribed as an antidote for those who "kill and have thoughts of killing". Killing and thoughts of killing keep one from attaining Bodhi. Simply eating meat is not an act of killing, nor a thought of killing. (refer once again to the 5 conditions for completing the karma of killing)
So why is it said in the article on the Shaolin Wu Gulun website that enlightenment is unattainable by meat eaters (not those who eat what they've personally killed)? Where is it supported in Buddhist scripture?