Kulo village Pin Sun Boxing

[Jim Roselando]

Spencer,


Thanks for the input.

I'm glad you guys have done some research regarding your lineage and have also speculated about his possible connections. I would only recommend looking into the timelines and maybe actually meeting people from the Kulo lineage. Keep in mind Fung Sang only passed away a few years ago and Fung Min's line is also active! If I was promoting a connection to them I might want to verify that connection. If you do, you will see how the Lee Shing Pin Sun timelines does not make sense.

For me, Lee Shing must have met Fung Sang after the 1963. Especially since Fung Sang didn't start teaching until 1965......... (When he was 25 years old)

Perhaps in the future, as more info surfaces, we can continue this discussion!


Peace,

[LoneTiger108]

I would only recommend looking into the timelines and maybe actually meeting people from the Kulo lineage...

... If I was promoting a connection to them I might want to verify that connection.

Here's the thing. I'm not really promoting any connection with Kulo, it has already been done by Sifu Joe Lee and his students. That's not to say I do not want to visit anyone in Kulo, or take my Sifu, but I would like to see a better promotion of Wing Chun as a whole rather than attempts to derail the whole community (especially the Ip Man collective!) I appreciate what the method contains too, but will always look at it as a treasured 'add-on' rather than a stand alone system that you seem to promote. I can, and never will, understand that logic I'm afraid.

FWIW Someone I recently met had 2 weeks with a well known Kulo Sifu (which one I will not say) in his home learning the 12 hands and corresponding exercises etc. From what I understand he spent some time belittling the 'western' Wing Chun'ers and even said some rather unscrupulous guys in Kulo itself who were also 'getting on the wagon'. My question is if this system is still being taught to only a few close disciples, how can you explain my finding??

I would also like to compare actual curriculums (in Chinese) with the Fungs, just to see if they recognize anything because I believe there will be massive overlaps and similar expressions throughout.

I do have references to Lee Shing visiting the Cho family in Singapore, something that was only confirmed (for me) last year. Even then, he didn't stay long. Simply passing through 'collecting' history and methods of teaching. But the similarities to how I was taught compared to them now is quite alarming!! I think it's what you would call 'Wushu' but I call it Gwok Seurt!!

There is also still exhanges happening between Sifu Goh, his top students and Wing Chun groups in Malaysia, so Lee Shings torch is still burning. In fact I wish I could find the photo of him with all his official certificates behind him on the wall as I'm sure you and your guys could translate the texts!!! We will have to dig it out of the magazine. All I remeber is that they all had Chinas official travel stamps lol!!

As ever, I am always trying to learn more about my roots, but I am slowly learning that THIS place may not be the best place to share my findings.

I should have listened more to my own brethren lol!!! But I am a stubborn, spoilt little kid myself so there you are...

[LoneTiger108]

Courtesy of Austin Goh on facebook



It is a blurry version though and I will still see if a better copy exists... it was printed in the eighties I think and what I first noticed was all the Plum Blossoms!

[Jim Roselando]

Spencer,


This is my Last post regarding Lee Shing. Hopefully I can help explain your latest finding!

Anyone can go to Shaping Town/Kulo and learn some Pin Sun. There are even a few public places there anyone can access. The big question is, Which Twelve & Which Exercises??? Leung Jan's? Somebody else's?

This is why Sifu Fung Sang stated: Those Within The Arts Inner Circle Are Few!

Also, to learn Leung Jan's (or anyones) martial art in two weeks will only result in collecting some stuff with little understanding & development but in today's time where a few weekend seminars here and there is all that is required to be an authority I guess it should be expected even in Kulo.

KFO is a great place to share info and discuss stuff with others. The BIG problem is some of us are so passionate about what we believe, when other info. does not agree with our own we either have to rethink some stuff or look the other way and just go with what feels good. For me, I prefer to go directly to the sources (main players) and combine that with date/timelines. Then, you can come up with a more likely.


Have a good weekend!


Peace,
Jim



***

FWIW Someone I recently met had 2 weeks with a well known Kulo Sifu (which one I will not say) in his home learning the 12 hands and corresponding exercises etc. From what I understand he spent some time belittling the 'western' Wing Chun'ers and even said some rather unscrupulous guys in Kulo itself who were also 'getting on the wagon'. My question is if this system is still being taught to only a few close disciples, how can you explain my finding??


***

[Hendrik]

Spencer,

Do you know when did your group went to Singapore and malaysia? Who did they meet with?

[imperialtaichi]

Com'on guys, it's great to have pride over our lineage, but lets work together to promote WC as a whole, instead of cutting each other down over something that happens previous generations which may not be verifiable anyway?

The important issue is what works, and where it's going to go in the future.

[Vajramusti]

Joy,


Silly sniping (Yip Man-Leung Bik) in Jim's guao pedigree game. (VBG).
Not necessary imo in the discussion with Spencer.


***

I disagree. It was the most common example I could think of at the moment!

The Kulo art is very young and retained within a very very small group of people. There is no pedigree game just research being presented/debated. Maybe others have different timelines/dates/etc. from me that they can presented but no doubt the reason I said that was because it was an easy example.

Numerous Yip people say he learned with Leung Bik. Numerous Yip people say that was not true. If some of Yip's people were told one or the other does that mean he (Yip) was not teaching them to the best of his ability or didn't like them????? Of course not. It just means the story may not hold water...........

Peace,

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

But you are playing a pedigree game Jim.

I enjoy watching Kulo stuff without criticising it or raising pedigree issues.

You can always find an opinion to suit yourself... does not make it history... or a critique of history-remains just an opinion.



joy

[Jim Roselando]

Hey John,


Its just a discussion. There is no animosity towards Spencer or Lee Shing. If you notice I never once said anything about any art being better or worst.

I happen to love WC and my love is not exclusive to the Kulo art. WC is pretty much all similar IMO. Leung Jan also felt this way! He kept developing his Wing Chun his whole life and was not shy to modify his boxing based on his experience. I also agree with you regarding what works is most important but this was not a discussion about boxing application and more about history. All the names, dates and info was about sharing research to further the level of discussion more than it was a slam session but no doubt we both threw the occasional little poke here and there hahaha.....


Next week its back to work! No more Forum time.


Peace,
Jim


Com'on guys, it's great to have pride over our lineage, but lets work together to promote WC as a whole, instead of cutting each other down over something that happens previous generations which may not be verifiable anyway?

The important issue is what works, and where it's going to go in the future.

[Jim Roselando]

Joy,

In a any discussion on any subject we present the info. and let people make their own mind up. Yes. I am presenting info. and stating the sources but never once in any reply I said there were any absolutes and always state:

More or Less Likely, Its Possible, May or May Not etc..

Do I have my own opinions? Of course! Who doesn't? But that doesn't mean I'm trying to re-write history. Sometimes as the years go on, and more and more people continue to share their research, history becomes more clear but sometimes it even becomes more confusing. Take it all with a grain of salt

Gotta run.

Jim


But you are playing a pedigree game Jim.

I enjoy watching Kulo stuff without criticising it or raising pedigree issues.

You can always find an opinion to suit yourself... does not make it history... or a critique of history-remains just an opinion.

[chunner]

hi Jim,

who are the top teachers in pin sun today?

[kung fu fighter]

hi Jim,

who are the top teachers in pin sun today?

The best fighter in pien san wing chun is Fung Leung, His skills even surpassed Fung Chun's

[chunner]

thanks kung fu fighter, i have heard of fung keung but not sure if you're referring to him or is there a fung leung as well?

where did u hear about his skills?

[LoneTiger108]

thanks kung fu fighter, i have heard of fung keung but not sure if you're referring to him or is there a fung leung as well?

where did u hear about his skills?

Welcome to the forum chunner!

I think you will find it is Fung Keung (as you mention) but the L & K are next to eachother so it could have been a genuine mistake. But you did ask for the best 'teacher' and was given the best 'fighter'. I doubt that was a mistake too. Just typical response to a simple question imho.

Do you know when did your group went to Singapore and malaysia? Who did they meet with?

Yes I do Hendrik. But please!! They were not 'my' group lol!!

But I have been advised to continue this discussion in private or stop talking altogether. I'm not willing to share anymore I'm afraid

[LoneTiger108]

Anyone can go to Shaping Town/Kulo and learn some Pin Sun. There are even a few public places there anyone can access. The big question is, Which Twelve & Which Exercises??? Leung Jan's? Somebody else's?

This is why Sifu Fung Sang stated: Those Within The Arts Inner Circle Are Few!

Forget it now Jim. I should never have used the story in the first place because I somehow knew you would belittle someones efforts to learn this stuff.

Apart from the negatives I mentioned, and in defense of the chap that taught the 12 hands, it was mentioned how gentlemanly and kind he was to the visitor so in short, he was a good honest man just sharing what he knew. Only frustrated by all the 'wannabes' in the village I suspect

[Jim Roselando]

Hello Chunner,


There are only a few outlets for Pin Sun Wing Chun in the world:

From Sifu Fung Chun's line I can tell you he has a fair amount of pupils that are actively teaching his methods privately. Also, his two sons are teaching in China; Fung Keung and Fung Leung. Fung Keung is his most well known pupil these days with a good reputation as a fighter.

From Sifu Fung Ju's line there are his pupils in Kulo that preserve his first teachers art such as his son Fung Jia Pei and others like Fung Wei Chun, Lao Liu Gen etc.. Sifu Fung Ju also taught very early on but taught the art he learned from his second teacher, Fung Min. This line is preserved in Boston by Mui Wai Hun.

From Fung Sang's line I can tell you there are a number of his pupils teaching in different locations. Fung Ho Chiu was his heir and privately teaches in Hong Kong and the others all work privately.

It is a very small family with only a few outlets for teaching. I recommend looking into the above lines or people connected to them! Making connection with them will also open more doors for you. Most if not all do not have public clubs but can be accessed if someone has is drive to find them.......


Hope this helps.


Peace,
Jim



hi Jim,

who are the top teachers in pin sun today?