The secret to Wing Chun

[Wayfaring]

I often read up on Hung Fa Yi's forum. They have all these Chinese words written in English and it sounds quite secretive or mysterious.

More recently they have started posting chinese characters along with English content posts as well. I think this is because sifu Gee has traveled to China more recently and established contacts there thus these are for primarily non-English speaking Chinese readers.

I don't think the intent is secrecy or mystery. Likewise with the transliterated Chinese. Referring to concepts in the original language preserves a little culture, and also the kuit, oral and/or written. Many times the Chinese statements are proverbial or succinctly stated such that the teaching and explanation require many more words and demos.

[JPinAZ]

This whole talk of secrets is kinda silly IMO. I don't think it's keeping secrets is someone doesn't want to teach certain things to a student. Fact is, they just might not be ready. Or, they just might not have shown the proper character to be honest.

To address the other issue that's popped up by jonlee: there are no 'secrets' in HFY. I think most of the HFY guys here have been pretty open on the forums with sharing or asking questions. If anyone has attended one of GM Gee's workshops, they would see that he is pretty open to questions on HFY, whether it's about the system, history, philosophy, etc.
Yes, the system has only recently been opened up to the public (within the past 10-12 year), but that is the choice of the inheritor of the system and if people call that secret, the issue is with them.

jonlee, I think instead of making decision based on 'things you've heard', maybe you could simply ask a question if you have one, and one of us will try our best to answer. This might work better vs. basing views off of gossip from those that have no real experience with HFY.
As you say, you've been reading on HFY108, have you registered or asked any questions there? You say are not happy with the Chinese terms, you do realize WCK is a Southern Chinese MA right? Do you know why the Chinese terms are included, and have you also have noticed that they are always followed with their English definitions as well? how can you feel this is so secretive or mysterious when it is being shared in the open on a public forum?

[k gledhill]

If you can kick someone's ass you know the secret , if your ass is kicked then you don't know the secret , simple as that

Lmao, I needed that !

[Yoshiyahu]

Some WC lineages dont teach internal because that are merely concerned about fighting...Some discredit the internal part as not being originally from WC. So when a westerner sees someone saying Wing Chun Chi Gung they discredit it because they feel WC is primairly and external system....


The internal is not really a secret...Most people dont care for internal side of martial arts!

Not sure for which lineage of wing chun...
I read somewhere in the past that there is outer and inner part of the system and that the inner part is kept secret. The inner part is supposed to be a complete system of internal energy cultivation (chi), opening main body energy channels and meridians, clearing internal organs and so on...

As I know in some ta chi families, they teach forms to everyone, but internal work only to inner circle. Old Chinese tradition...

My 2 cents to secrets...


Jox,

[Vajramusti]

The internal is not really a secret...Most people dont care for internal side of martial arts!

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The real secret in wing chun is safe with Yoshiyahu- you just have to ask him!

joy chaudhuri

[Yoshiyahu]

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The real secret in wing chun is safe with Yoshiyahu- you just have to ask him!

joy chaudhuri

the real secret is just to practice, stretch, breath and fight with your art.

[jonlee]

This whole talk of secrets is kinda silly IMO. I don't think it's keeping secrets is someone doesn't want to teach certain things to a student. Fact is, they just might not be ready. Or, they just might not have shown the proper character to be honest.

To address the other issue that's popped up by jonlee: there are no 'secrets' in HFY. I think most of the HFY guys here have been pretty open on the forums with sharing or asking questions. If anyone has attended one of GM Gee's workshops, they would see that he is pretty open to questions on HFY, whether it's about the system, history, philosophy, etc.
Yes, the system has only recently been opened up to the public (within the past 10-12 year), but that is the choice of the inheritor of the system and if people call that secret, the issue is with them.

jonlee, I think instead of making decision based on 'things you've heard', maybe you could simply ask a question if you have one, and one of us will try our best to answer. This might work better vs. basing views off of gossip from those that have no real experience with HFY.
As you say, you've been reading on HFY108, have you registered or asked any questions there? You say are not happy with the Chinese terms, you do realize WCK is a Southern Chinese MA right? Do you know why the Chinese terms are included, and have you also have noticed that they are always followed with their English definitions as well? how can you feel this is so secretive or mysterious when it is being shared in the open on a public forum?

JPinAZ, I have posted and asked questions on HFY108. But sometimes my posts get removed because HFY108 is run by Hung Fa Yi practitioners. If I say something they don't agree with, then they remove my posts. Or they all gang up on me on their forum using their English Chinese terms that make no sense to anyone but themselves. It seems like you are close to these HFY guys so maybe you can ask them this question off the top of my head. I read somewhere that GM Gee has been teaching HFY since the 70's, and he is still the only HFY sifu out there? Is that true?

[JPinAZ]

JPinAZ, I have posted and asked questions on HFY108. But sometimes my posts get removed because HFY108 is run by Hung Fa Yi practitioners. If I say something they don't agree with, then they remove my posts. Or they all gang up on me on their forum using their English Chinese terms that make no sense to anyone but themselves. It seems like you are close to these HFY guys so maybe you can ask them this question off the top of my head. I read somewhere that GM Gee has been teaching HFY since the 70's, and he is still the only HFY sifu out there? Is that true?

Hmm, interesting. Since I am one of these 'HFY guys' you speak of, and have been a regular participant on HFY108 for many years, I am surpised to hear you say this. What is your login there? When and on which thread(s) did this occur on? Without specifics, I have no idea what you are talking about. And if this really did occur, I seriously doubt your posts were removed/moderated simply because a moderator disagreed with you.

To me, it seems you have some ax to grind with chinese terms, and HFY specifically. If you have a problem with the English/Chinese terms, then maybe HFY (or WCK in general) just isn't your thing. Since WCK is a chinese art and the chinese terms do have specific meaning in the teaching that direct english translation can't always convey, most WC teachers, regardless the lineage, will use the chinese terms to a greater or lesser extent. You will find them also being used by most posters quite often here on this forum as well.
But in an case, I can ssure you that the chinese terms are not used as a way to create some air of secrecy or mysticism as you are implying, or as a means to confuse you. Or maybe you're just not that special

I'm not sure I understand your last question . There are many active HFY instructors, schools and clubs in different areas in and out of the US. This is explained on the HFY HQ website, HFY108 and the hungfablog website. Instead of bogging down this thread further, maybe you should just PM me directly

[Eric_H]

JPinAZ brought this to my attention

I have posted and asked questions on HFY108. But sometimes my posts get removed because HFY108 is run by Hung Fa Yi practitioners. If I say something they don't agree with, then they remove my posts.

I'm one of the mod team on HFY108 and have been for the last two/three years. We have a standing policy that posts are not to be deleted unless they are considered spam, regardless of content.

*If* one of our mods is deleting posts, please PM me the details and I will see what I can do to restore your posts and make sure this does not happen again.

Thank you,

[Savi]

FWIW, I use chinese terms when I teach, AND I translate them into English, AND I describe the meaning of them, AND I explain what's involved in the tech behind the terms: Context and Content.

My Sifu taught me that as a Sifu, several cornerstones of leadership are needed. Some of them I will share: Honesty, Integrity, Intelligence, and Compassion.

Jonlee, you sound like a young guy with a lot of unresolved issues. I would like to suggest some serious introspection before painting such a large stroke with that brush of yours.

[Eric_H]

JPinAZ, I have posted and asked questions on HFY108. But sometimes my posts get removed because HFY108 is run by Hung Fa Yi practitioners. If I say something they don't agree with, then they remove my posts

Jonlee,

As you have not provided me with your login name, I did a check against HFY108's user database and came up with only one Jon Lee, whose last login was in 2004. I do not know if this is you or not as you have not provided me with your login information but if that was you, I need to explain some things:

Prior to 2009 HFY108 was heavily influenced by the VTM. Benny Meng in particular would often edit or delete people's posts if he did not agree with their words or they criticized him or his programs. Unfortunately, we lost a number of students over that, I am assuming you might have been one of them? Even I myself had some of my posts removed/edited/deleted back in those days as I had some issues with things that were going on. It was aggravating, to say the least, and not something I would be party to today.

These days, now that the VTM influence is not around, we tend to follow Grandmaster Gee's direct mandate that people should "Express themselves honestly and let the world judge them" not be censored by anyone with an agenda. I think this is evident by the forum flare-ups we've had between Emin/Leung Ting and BJJ people, James (Roller?) from Canada and Victor Parlati and Sifu Sergio's camp with some of Andreas Hoffman's guys - all of which (except for some posts that were deleted by James when he was a moderator) are still there. Aside from some DB crashes and forum hacks,we try to keep everything up.

HFY108 is open to everybody, regardless of style or lineage. We hope to keep it that way.

[tigershorty]

you guys basically just did what he said. 3 hfy guys getting in line to tell him how wrong and/or misunderstood he was.

jonlee, as someone who has studied HFY- the terms are there because it is the vocabulary of the system. there is no reason why you couldn't call a taan sau a "spreading hand" if you really wanted to.

[Savi]

you guys basically just did what he said. 3 hfy guys getting in line to tell him how wrong and/or misunderstood he was.

We guys? Sorry Ben. I post on my own volition. Jon and Eric post on their own terms in their OWN ways. LMAO. What makes my comment any different from any other on this thread BEYOND the fact I am from HFY?

I did not tell him he is wrong. I did not tell him he misunderstands or is misunderstood. I offered a suggestion of introsepction.

FWIW, there are many different moderators on 108 from other kung fu groups.

Chinese terms do not tranlate well into english, therefore meanings and insight into function are impacted without sound and further explanation.

[tigershorty]

Savi, you sound like a young guy with a lot of unresolved issues. I would like to suggest some serious introspection.

[JPinAZ]

you guys basically just did what he said. 3 hfy guys getting in line to tell him how wrong and/or misunderstood he was.

Haha, now you're just talking out your jong sau, because I did no such thing. Since I was having a discussion with jonlee directly, I don't see how I 'got in line' for anything. I don't feel I told him he was wrong about anything and did my best to answer his questions.
It seems to me you are the one that got inline to defend jonlee when he doesn't really need it - he's not being attacked here. And, he can speak for himself yeah?

Savi and Eric are both moderators of HFY108. since jonlee was has a problem and is accusing moderators there of censorship, I think it is a good thing that they piped in. Still waiting to hear from him when/where this happened as he claims. Should be easy to clear up and see who did what, if it happened at all.

Again, this is boggin down the thread, so maybe it should either be taken to a new thread, or offline. On second thought, no thread here ever lasts more than a page or so before it gets side-tracked, bogged down, etc., so I guess it's normal procedure. Carry on!