In London -WING CHUN CHI SAO INTERNATIONAL IS COMING IN JUNE !!

[Alan Orr]

Cool, well at least you agree its nothing like the Ving Tsun thinking I have.

I think that has been said many times on every thread I have ever started!

I hope now I will not have to keep repeating myself.

[Wayfaring]

Just to answer on A Baum - We have never train Thai at all. All our movements are in our normal wing chun skill sets. The neck control is in the start of the Dummy. The punches are normal as we have many punches, spring punch, bounce punch, thrusting punch and many more. We train as a Chinese boxing system so you see that in our strikes.

So I think this goes to comment on some of the other guys who don't think this is wing chun, or criticize it. My view is that if you are incorporating weapons in to your wc training like the knees and clinch skills along with base and forward pressure, that is great. The key is what is working utilizing those wc principles. If I can view a limited striking contest like a chi sau drill and see similar concepts to what I see in skilled MT fighters driven from wc concepts like centerline and forward intent, then I like that. I think it is a proper adaptation of wc for MMA fighting. I think it opens up tons of options as to where you can compete. Sure there's room for people teaching traditionally but this alternative method of teaching is a great option too. And the realistic pressure involved I like too, and think it is good for both health and self defense. The key is to all these competitions, like chi sau and MMA fights, the way I look at it is you always have armies in times of peace keeping themselves sharp by sporting competitions.

In terms of wrestling yes we do train wrestling but this was not in wrestling range. Wrestling range is out or in - body to body. Chi Sao is range between. That is the what makes Wing Chun different it has a range that most people don't train in so much, in the way we do in wing chun. Thai does work in this range but the application is quite different as we have Chi Sao which gives us different ways to use it.

This is my little pet area to work with and focus on. I think there is a lot more available to chain into standing grappling from chi sau than most people think or train. I see feeds into arm drags, slide-bys, leg attack takedowns and more and use them from contact on the bridge. I think the range is much more transitional than people want it to be live. For me if I can bridge to strike or bridge to take down where I end up in a better position like on top that's what I will choose. That's my little niche.

But I like what you guys are doing. Your bridge work, counters and skills seem to be able to handle the MT background guys in MMA.

[anerlich]

chi-sao competition = oxymoron

kgledhill = moron

(Someone had to do it)

Seriously, Kev, we know your opinion on this. We just disagree with you. Get over it.

No one is forcing you to enter this comp.

It's like arguing with Terence about theoreticians and real fighters, except more repetitive and less interesting. I though that impossible, I was wrong.

[Ozzy Dave]

chi-sao competition = oxymoron

Yeah, this is correct but to be fair its gor sao not chi sao and gor sao is by its nature a competition so no harm making it sporting in my opinion.

Competition in the sporting sense is all about inducing pressure while maintaining safety.

The benefit to all this is that it’s a mutually defined starting point in a difficult range to gain control of the opponent, and it provides a pressured environment to work responses, including clinching defences for the pure VT man.

Props to Alan for developing the concept, maybe once you’re in NZ we'll see more of this in Oz.

Cheers,

Dave

[k gledhill]

kgledhill = moron

(Someone had to do it)

Seriously, Kev, we know your opinion on this. We just disagree with you. Get over it.

No one is forcing you to enter this comp.

It's like arguing with Terence about theoreticians and real fighters, except more repetitive and less interesting. I though that impossible, I was wrong.

Anerlich read my mind, you dont have to try too hard... more disagree with you.

[Alan Orr]

So I think this goes to comment on some of the other guys who don't think this is wing chun, or criticize it. My view is that if you are incorporating weapons in to your wc training like the knees and clinch skills along with base and forward pressure, that is great. The key is what is working utilizing those wc principles. If I can view a limited striking contest like a chi sau drill and see similar concepts to what I see in skilled MT fighters driven from wc concepts like centerline and forward intent, then I like that. I think it is a proper adaptation of wc for MMA fighting. I think it opens up tons of options as to where you can compete. Sure there's room for people teaching traditionally but this alternative method of teaching is a great option too. And the realistic pressure involved I like too, and think it is good for both health and self defense. The key is to all these competitions, like chi sau and MMA fights, the way I look at it is you always have armies in times of peace keeping themselves sharp by sporting competitions.



This is my little pet area to work with and focus on. I think there is a lot more available to chain into standing grappling from chi sau than most people think or train. I see feeds into arm drags, slide-bys, leg attack takedowns and more and use them from contact on the bridge. I think the range is much more transitional than people want it to be live. For me if I can bridge to strike or bridge to take down where I end up in a better position like on top that's what I will choose. That's my little niche.

But I like what you guys are doing. Your bridge work, counters and skills seem to be able to handle the MT background guys in MMA.

Yes agree. Nice post. Good to see people do understand where the comp will help develop the principles in wing chun into working concepts.

[Alan Orr]

Yeah, this is correct but to be fair its gor sao not chi sao and gor sao is by its nature a competition so no harm making it sporting in my opinion.

Competition in the sporting sense is all about inducing pressure while maintaining safety.

The benefit to all this is that it’s a mutually defined starting point in a difficult range to gain control of the opponent, and it provides a pressured environment to work responses, including clinching defences for the pure VT man.

Props to Alan for developing the concept, maybe once you’re in NZ we'll see more of this in Oz.

Cheers,

Dave

It is a Chi Sao event as fighters must roll. They will break into Gro Sao at some point but must go back to rolling.

But good point. Right now it is 10 seconds before they must roll again. So maybe we should make that 5 seconds so they roll more.

Yes Oz I am coming! I have 3 schools interesting in training already in Oz. Can't wait! So the Comp will be in Oz as some point a well.

[Bacon]

You know Alan, it's okay to admit that you're wrong.

[Alan Orr]

You know Alan, it's okay to admit that you're wrong.

Wrong about what? Why do people o forum's always have something to say about nothing?

The rules worked well last time. This time we are asking people for input to see if it can be even better. There is no wrong. We only look to develop. Someone has made a point which I think could add value so we will make a change. It is funny that people hang on to stuff so much.

[jesper]

It is a Chi Sao event as fighters must roll. They will break into Gro Sao at some point but must go back to rolling.

But good point. Right now it is 10 seconds before they must roll again. So maybe we should make that 5 seconds so they roll more.

Yes Oz I am coming! I have 3 schools interesting in training already in Oz. Can't wait! So the Comp will be in Oz as some point a well.

Think you should lower to 5 sec. When we roll we usually have what we call 3 sec rule which is just another way of saying you get to do 1-2 combos then back to rolling. 10 sec is along time if its chi sao your testing

[Alan Orr]

Think you should lower to 5 sec. When we roll we usually have what we call 3 sec rule which is just another way of saying you get to do 1-2 combos then back to rolling. 10 sec is along time if its chi sao your testing

Yes I agree. We will change it to 3 seconds. Thank you for your input

[Bacon]

Okay a question completely aside from my criticisms. Are you allowing the leg work in chi sao or restricting it to the hands? Are you doing proper, mobile chi sao with footwork or dead with feet planted?

[Alan Orr]

Okay a question completely aside from my criticisms. Are you allowing the leg work in chi sao or restricting it to the hands? Are you doing proper, mobile chi sao with footwork or dead with feet planted?

Yes all footwork and kicking allowed

[wingchunIan]

Yes I agree. We will change it to 3 seconds. Thank you for your input

Genuine questions out of pure curiosity,
Why have a time restriction on movement away from poon sao? Poon sao being only a neutral starting point and not chi sao surely the aim should be to only restart if the action is broken for any reason?

Alan, how does the scoring system work? do light contact shots to the head count for more or less than full force body shots? Is there any difference in points for shots to the throat?

[Alan Orr]

Genuine questions out of pure curiosity,
Why have a time restriction on movement away from poon sao? Poon sao being only a neutral starting point and not chi sao surely the aim should be to only restart if the action is broken for any reason?

Alan, how does the scoring system work? do light contact shots to the head count for more or less than full force body shots? Is there any difference in points for shots to the throat?

Not sure what you mean? Rolling and striking etc if it becomes a broken bridge or no response to attack then after 3 seconds restart. The opponent being hit and controlled is then losing. Part is for safety as well.

All rules are on
www.wingchunevents.co.uk

I will post them up on the forum when I get on my pc