Shawn Obasi with three other WC Sifu

[GlennR]

Yeah, within what you would call "close ranged combat" yes. But this was meant to be a chi sau session?

Exactly, in my book mild slaps to the haed are more acceptable than head butts in the situation shown

Well, tbh, looking at Randy's behaviour, what he says and how he acts in these vids, I have to say that it is not indicative of what I would call a Sifu. Further, having watched his instructional vids and having read his books, well, I still feel that he is lacking. That said, it is primarily his behaviour that, for me at least, inclines me to not refer to him with the Sifu title in tow.

Behaviour aside, you have no reason to call him sifu as you aren't his student.
His behaviour confirms that call

Yes, I noted that myself. Thing is many of these techniques are last ditch desperation techniques.

That was my call earlier in the thread.

They are not really techniques to come out in chi sau. He only does them because he lacks the ability and skill to use the more 'standard' toolsets available from wing chun, when chi sauing.

I agree again

Randy uses a lot of strength and speed in his wing chun. I believe he thinks himself of a bigger physical stature than he actually is and this, I believe, effects the way he does wing chun. Small man complex alpha male, but really a beta, syndrome?

Im not going to comment on how he thinks but IMO its pretty low skill chi-sao in general

[Paddington]

Bloody hell Glenn. I better stop posting because we are starting to agree too much! You know, having watched that vid on slow motion, I just don't understand Randy's objections to the face contact. Apart from the last one (which was more to the neck?), they all seem perfectly controlled. A couple of them look more like a caressing, cupping of Randy's face.

[GlennR]

Bloody hell Glenn. I better stop posting because we are starting to agree too much! You know, having watched that vid on slow motion, I just don't understand Randy's objections to the face contact. Apart from the last one (which was more to the neck?), they all seem perfectly controlled. A couple of them look more like a caressing, cupping of Randy's face.

Yeh careful, i dont like agreeing with anyone

Basically, im at one with you IMO of the video.

To be honest, what happened is no big deal, but with his students carry on and his challenge to Laroux (who is a knob to be honest) i just think his actions need to be shown for what they are.
That is a "name" in WC with , what appear to be, ego issues and more worried about defending his legacy than an honest exhange between two practitioners of WC.

Personally, if i was the chap rolling with him i wouldnt have been so obliging

[CRCAVA]

I understand that these forums are to discuss and even argue about WC and other martial arts. But to question a persons character or their organization? I think it's a little out of line and irrelevant. To help the people on this forum that have never met or trained with Sifu Randy Williams, here is a testimonial:
"I started training with Sifu Williams at age 7 in WC in Virginia. He was always willing to take time out of a hard core class to help me out as a kid and never let me fall behind in class. As years went on he invited me to his home to train, hang out, have BBQ's etc... He allows me to stay at his home at no charge to train. He even goes as far as to have my family come stay at his home while I train. Now as an adult I teach my own CRCA WC classes and he treats all my students and friends the same way he treats me... Like family. Sifu Williams is not only an amazing martial artist that has contributed to the WC community for over 40 years, he is a rare kind of man that gives of himself in everyday he can to see the works around him grow. To make this long story short, if you want to argue about technique that is fine, everyone has a opinion. But when it comes to Sifu Williams as an instructor and person he is nothing short of amazing... Your opinions are hollow if the only knowledge you have of Randy is via video."

[WingChunNovice]

I understand that these forums are to discuss and even argue about WC and other martial arts. But to question a persons character or their organization? I think it's a little out of line and irrelevant. To help the people on this forum that have never met or trained with Sifu Randy Williams, here is a testimonial:
"I started training with Sifu Williams at age 7 in WC in Virginia. He was always willing to take time out of a hard core class to help me out as a kid and never let me fall behind in class. As years went on he invited me to his home to train, hang out, have BBQ's etc... He allows me to stay at his home at no charge to train. He even goes as far as to have my family come stay at his home while I train. Now as an adult I teach my own CRCA WC classes and he treats all my students and friends the same way he treats me... Like family. Sifu Williams is not only an amazing martial artist that has contributed to the WC community for over 40 years, he is a rare kind of man that gives of himself in everyday he can to see the works around him grow. To make this long story short, if you want to argue about technique that is fine, everyone has a opinion. But when it comes to Sifu Williams as an instructor and person he is nothing short of amazing... Your opinions are hollow if the only knowledge you have of Randy is via video."

This has been my experience with him as well. One of the most open and genuine good people you could ever meet.

[Paddington]

I understand that these forums are to discuss and even argue about WC and other martial arts. But to question a persons character or their organization?

Oh I don't know, I guess it is because I train within the Ip Man school of thought where there is an insistence on those pesky codes of conduct. Granted, we don't follow the one about alcohol as, well, if opium is acceptable....

I do get the feeling that we are not seeing the whole picture here and it would be interesting to see some of the other vids from that conference.

[CRCAUSA]

After being on this forum for a while I really don't know why the CRCAers are up in arms about RW being personally attacked. He shares good company as this same forum called the Gracies washed up only being able to use their name to make money, I seem to remember Leung Ting being called a "clown" by these same guys and we all know the things they said about Emin. Obviously respect for their seniors is left out of their schools tenants and that's ok with me. Looks like RW has some pretty good company. As for CS if they have lots of rules that's fine with me also. In CRCA as long at it's WC we are able to practice all WC techinques and I like that better.

[Paddington]

After being on this forum for a while I really don't know why the CRCAers are up in arms about RW being personally attacked. He shares good company as this same forum called the Gracies washed up only being able to use their name to make money, I seem to remember Leung Ting being called a "clown" by these same guys and we all know the things they said about Emin. Obviously respect for their seniors is left out of their schools tenants and that's ok with me. Looks like RW has some pretty good company. As for CS if they have lots of rules that's fine with me also. In CRCA as long at it's WC we are able to practice all WC techinques and I like that better.

Because, yeah, most of us are actually the same person and it is a complete illusion that this forum has many posters.

[CRCAUSA]

I must have missed where you came to defend any of their reputations.

[Paddington]

My point is you cannot posit the entire forum as a single 'controlling mind' entity. For the most part we are individuals posting and each post is representative of our singular beliefs and feelings.

If Randy wants to come here and defend himself, I would be more than happy to take the time to read/hear his side of the story.

[CRCAUSA]

RW doesn't need to defend himself against unknown guys behind their keyboards. I'm ok with the fact that many of the posters here are in schools that have no tenants that respect their seniors. You sure don't see CRCA members launching personal attacks against anyone in any martial art system, RW wouldn't allow it.

[Robinhood]

This has been my experience with him as well. One of the most open and genuine good people you could ever meet.

These 2 guys do bring up very valid points, something is a muss , maybe since you know Randy ,you could ask him why he acted the way he did, it does seem odd for a friendly chi Sao exchange , the other guy wasn't getting upset.

[wingchunIan]

RW doesn't need to defend himself against unknown guys behind their keyboards. I'm ok with the fact that many of the posters here are in schools that have no tenants that respect their seniors. You sure don't see CRCA members launching personal attacks against anyone in any martial art system, RW wouldn't allow it.

Most schools don't have tenants full stop, a tenant is someone who pays rent to a landlord to live somewhere. I believe the word you are somewhat hopelessly missing is
Tenet: A principle or belief, esp. one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy

The majority of posters on here (although certainly not all, and some demonstrate the opposite position) have respect for senior and for that matter junior practitioners, however this is a forum and material is posted for comment and discussion. Comments on clips are mostly made (again there are some who cannot avoid politics and bias) in isolation from the reputation of the person or persons in the clip and are based upon the material presented.
If you don't like the comments, you can respond or you can take your ball and go home i.e leave the forum, its completely your choice.

[CRCAUSA]

It is my understanding that RW was lured into a room for purposes other than CS which in my opinion was not very ethical right off the bat. Once there while being filmed he was asked to do CS with the other Sifu and at that point he felt he could not back down gracefully. Had he been told of what they had in mind he would not have agreed to it in the first place. The only thing he asked was there be no contact to the face. For whatever reason his partner decided to not comply with his request. In the full video which is about 10 minutes long his partner hit him repeatedly and RW asked numerous times he not do that. All this time RW had not touched his partners face even though he could have at many points in the CS. At a certain point RW decided to no longer take the hits and returned them. When we CS in CRCA we comply with our partners requests as it would show a complete lack of respect not to. As for the headbutt comments we in CRCA are allowed to do ALL WC techniques that are contained within the system so this was nothing out of the ordinary for us. In CRCA we also spar and are allowed to use these same techniques in sparring. Without being able to do this I'm not sure how one would practice these techniques against a noncompliant partner.

[Robinhood]

It is my understanding that RW was lured into a room for purposes other than CS which in my opinion was not very ethical right off the bat. Once there while being filmed he was asked to do CS with the other Sifu and at that point he felt he could not back down gracefully. Had he been told of what they had in mind he would not have agreed to it in the first place. The only thing he asked was there be no contact to the face. For whatever reason his partner decided to not comply with his request. In the full video which is about 10 minutes long his partner hit him repeatedly and RW asked numerous times he not do that. All this time RW had not touched his partners face even though he could have at many points in the CS. At a certain point RW decided to no longer take the hits and returned them. When we CS in CRCA we comply with our partners requests as it would show a complete lack of respect not to. As for the headbutt comments we in CRCA are allowed to do ALL WC techniques that are contained within the system so this was nothing out of the ordinary for us. In CRCA we also spar and are allowed to use these same techniques in sparring. Without being able to do this I'm not sure how one would practice these techniques against a noncompliant partner.

I don't see the other guy striking the face, only his hand stopping on his face or next to it, maybe Randy is afraid of germs or something , that still does not give him good enough reason to act that way he did.

Usually this kind of Conduct is not becoming of someone with high skill or a good teacher. If you have to hit the other guy to make your point then your skill is questionable.


It does look like Randy is in more control of the other guy, as far as balance is concerned , but all the flowery after shots is not friendly chi sao.