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Thread: Dit Da Jow...

  1. #76
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    Herbal Substitutes

    Rik,

    Looking forward to the Suigetsu camp. I was going to suggest (but didn't because you asked for substitutes) that harvesting bear through hunting is an ethical alternative to the illegal products that almost always come from intensive bear farms in the PRC. The problem, in addition to the fact that the bears are treated badly, is that their life-span in captivity is significantly shorter in these farms than in the wild - so wild bears are still poached but kept alive to be sent to the farms, where the bile is harvested through tubes inserted into their gallbladders. Altogether it's a horrible practice and it doesn't prevent the destruction of the wild bear population due to the money to be made supplying the farms.

    Hunting for bear, on the other hand, is I think ethical insofar as it fulfills one of the true reasons for hunting: to supply meat for the table, fur, (and in this case, an herbal medicine) - so long as the wild bear population can easily sustain hunting pressure. I don't have a lot of experience hunting, but it's something I'd like to take up in the near future, as my dad hunted for deer, grouse, and pheasant all his life. Tom has a student who's an avid hunter and I've heard that he has gone bear hunting in upstate New York. I was thinking of contacting him and will let you know his thoughts on the efficacy of harvesting bear gallbladder if you would like. One would need to know, for example, how to keep the gallbladder fresh during transit and how to prepare it for use as an herbal medicine.

    Best,

    Steve Lamade

  2. #77

    herbal substitues

    Herbal substitutes

    The most common substitute for bear paw is deer tendon, the substitute for bear gall is gold thread-coptis rhizoma,-huang lien, but I like to use the common western herb goldenseal because it has the same energy and properties. tigerbone is Homalonemae occulta. but you guys probably know this already.

  3. #78
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    Herbal Substitute

    Quote Originally Posted by Gongli View Post
    Herbal substitutes

    The most common substitute for bear paw is deer tendon, the substitute for bear gall is gold thread-coptis rhizoma,-huang lien, but I like to use the common western herb goldenseal because it has the same energy and properties. tigerbone is Homalonemae occulta. but you guys probably know this already.
    I hadn't known that deer tendon can be used as a substitute for bear paw. Whenever I have a muscle tear however I like to eat Vietnamese Pho (soup) with beef tendon - so would deer tendon share similar properties? Huang Lian as a plant herbal substutute for Bear Gall Bladder makes sense as both are Cold and Bitter and share a similar range of actions and indications, (in particular eye and topical inflamation); There is a musk and bear bile patent that is used for chronic cold and damp conditions, however, and I am wondering if one could substitute Huang Lian for the bear bile in this formula? Re. Homalonemae occulta (Quan Nian Jian) it is right there next to Hu Gu in my Bensky and Gamble. It is bitter rather than sweet but can be used for the same range of symptoms. Thank you for the reference.

    Best,

    Steve

  4. #79
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    all kidding aside, what can be substituted for opium? I am not about to score dope in the park, and certainly wouldn't want people saying my jow is a controlled substance.

  5. #80
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    Jul 2005
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    TenTigers,
    Not sure if this is a suitable substitution for your uses or not, but Yan Hu Suo (Corydalis Rhizome) is in the poppy family and shares a taxonomic similarty with opium at the genus level.

    Not surprisingly, Yan Hu Suo is an important pain releiver and blood invigorator. If this is a good substitution for your uses, it is cheap and easy to get.

  6. #81
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    Yan Hu Suo

    Quote Originally Posted by PlumDragon View Post
    TenTigers,
    Not sure if this is a suitable substitution for your uses or not, but Yan Hu Suo (Corydalis Rhizome) is in the poppy family and shares a taxonomic similarty with opium at the genus level.

    Not surprisingly, Yan Hu Suo is an important pain releiver and blood invigorator. If this is a good substitution for your uses, it is cheap and easy to get.
    Yan Hu Suo also combines well with other herbs to treat specific parts of the body. For example, you can combine it with Chuan Lian Zi to treat rib fracture.

    Best,

    Steve Lamade

  7. #82
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    can you post the chinese characters?

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by TenTigers View Post
    can you post the chinese characters?
    For Yan Hu Suo:

  9. #84
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    thanx!

  10. #85
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    Chinese Herbs

    Sure, no problem. I noticed that the Suigetsu Dojo in Greenlawn, NY has a pretty good selection of herbal products. Of note are the Dit Da Jow, Tendon Lotion, Tendon Soak, and Bone Knitting formulas. The "UI" oil is also helpful for stiff, overexerted muscles that cramp up in cold, damp weather. Worth a look at.

    Best,

    Steve

  11. #86
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    Muskone

    Just a follow-up on muskone. I noticed that Kamwo Pharmacy in NYC's Chinatown (Grand Street) uses it (synthetic musk) in one of Tom Bisio and Frank Butler's formulas:

    http://www.kamwo.com/Public/zhenggutuina.php

    Other substitutes for bear gallbladder:

    zhu dan (pig gallbladder) plus huang lian
    niu dan (cow gallbladder) plus huang lian

    Best,

    Steve
    Last edited by lhommedieu; 01-28-2007 at 02:30 PM. Reason: add pinyin terms

  12. #87
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    Florida
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    Dit Da Jow?

    Does Dit Da Jow really work? Why is there no western equivalent, how does the MMA argue with real testable results? And why isnt it sold OTC at walmart if it is so effective? I read a few articles on it yesterday but I still dont understand, it must dilate blood vessels to promote circulation and healing but so does heat. They always say ICE for inflammation and then heat later after the area stops swelling. Are good recipes available or is that all secret/pseudo secret too?

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by KungFubar View Post
    Does Dit Da Jow really work?
    Yes

    Why is there no western equivalent,
    Western medicine focuses on pathology and the treatment of symptoms. There is no similar herbal medicine that I'm aware of in western medicine. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me knows if there's been clinical research done on dit da jow.

    how does the MMA argue with real testable results?
    MMA doesn't do iron training like how Chinese arts do.

    And why isnt it sold OTC at walmart if it is so effective?
    It's more for kung fu people. Wal Mart would lose money selling it.

    Furthermore, I'd advise to be careful of affirming the consequent. That's fallacious logic.

    I read a few articles on it yesterday but I still dont understand, it must dilate blood vessels to promote circulation and healing but so does heat.
    I'm not trained in chinese herbs (yet) so I'll let someone else answer this.

    They always say ICE for inflammation and then heat later after the area stops swelling.
    That's poor advice.

    Are good recipes available or is that all secret/pseudo secret too?
    I'm sure you could find a recipe online without much effort. But that will also involve buying each individual herb. It's cheaper to buy it pre-made unless you follow a specific recipe given to you by your teacher.

    I buy mine from here. Other forum members have their go-to seller and some make their own and sell it.
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  14. #89
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    If you're interested in Chinese medicine or scared about "woo", I'd suggest taking a look at this post. That may help you get a better understanding of things.
    Last edited by Kymus; 06-06-2013 at 06:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymus View Post

    Furthermore, I'd advise to be careful of affirming the consequent. That's fallacious logic.
    So is straw man. You might want to avoid that one

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