Is the food you buy safe to eat?

[Kymus]

Sustainable Farm Practices Improve Third World Food Production

Jan. 24, 2006 — Crop yields on farms in developing countries that used sustainable agriculture rose nearly 80 percent in four years, according to a study scheduled for publication in the Feb. 15 issue of the American Chemical Society journal Environmental Science & Technology. The study, the largest of its kind to date -- 286 farm projects in 57 countries -- concludes that sustainable agriculture protects the environment in these countries while substantially improving the lives of farmers who adopt the resource-conserving practices.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0123163315.htm

[GoldenBrain]

Sustainable Farm Practices Improve Third World Food Production

Awesome report, but the truth be known, and as you know Kymus, most of us out here who use sustainable farm methods already knew this. I'm am happy to see this info being shared with the folks who haven't discovered the realz yet. It doesn't surprise me that many people out there want to be hand fed GMO seeds since they want to be hand fed everything else in their lives, but maybe studies like this can sway them over to the sustainable organic side.

[Syn7]

Your problem is with the practice, not the actual science. You don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Do douchebags exploit the science for personal gain? Of course. Does this mean GMO = Bad? Not necessarily. Can it be bad? Sure... But mark my words, this will be the future.

Think about how long we bled people and fed them(and still do) insane chemicals to get where we are now. This is the price of progress. Does this mean we should just let corps bring crap to market w/o proper study? Of course not.

There are two conversations here and I find it disappointing that most people are unable or unwilling to separate them.

It reminds me of the nuclear energy talks. Nobody is really talking about where we would be had our main objective been a cleaner, cheaper energy policy rather than building ginormous bombs.

I find it so sad that as soon as I say that GMO's aren't evil that people seem to want to attach every argument they ever heard to my statement. Not saying you guys did that, but it happens all the time.

So you can see why I just avoid the topic for the most part.

[GoldenBrain]

Your problem is with the practice, not the actual science.

Yes, exactly! I really should make more of an effort on my part to separate the two arguments. GMO is not necessarily a bad thing. We have been modifying crops for centuries but the lab modified GMO is a new thing to our species and it's progressing a bit to fast in my opinion, but it does need to progress. I would feel a little more at ease if they would just treat it like a biohazard until it is stamped as totally safe to release to the environment.

[Syn7]

I had a very interesting conversation recently about how fast is too fast. Lots of stuff to factor in on that one. Not an easy question.

[Lucas]

I had a very interesting conversation recently about how fast is too fast. Lots of stuff to factor in on that one. Not an easy question.

ask (instert dude you want to rip on)'s girlfriend.

[RenDaHai]

I have a question;

Is making ourselves more DEPENDANT on technology always moving forwards??

I mean, yeah, lets find out more about the nature of the universe, lets discover things, lets cure diseases, lets make computers and robots etc. But can't we do all this while keeping ourselves grounded and knowing how to do some stuff for ourselves.

What if we make a GMO crop that can literally seed and harvest itself, produce its own pesticide, fight its own diseases. Aren't we missing something fundamental?

I am all for a lot of research. But massively against implementation before its time. Once GM crops are released they contaminate natural ones. This is unacceptable.

I spent years learning about science and society, now you know what? I want to learn about how to plant and harvest, how to hunt and butcher, how to set a fire, how to build a house. Are there universities for that kind of thing?

I don't think we should forget that we are at the mercy of nature and live at her pleasure.

Damn, I'm starting to sound like a hippy....

[Syn7]

I have a question;

Is making ourselves more DEPENDANT on technology always moving forwards??

I mean, yeah, lets find out more about the nature of the universe, lets discover things, lets cure diseases, lets make computers and robots etc. But can't we do all this while keeping ourselves grounded and knowing how to do some stuff for ourselves.

What if we make a GMO crop that can literally seed and harvest itself, produce its own pesticide, fight its own diseases. Aren't we missing something fundamental?

I am all for a lot of research. But massively against implementation before its time. Once GM crops are released they contaminate natural ones. This is unacceptable.

I spent years learning about science and society, now you know what? I want to learn about how to plant and harvest, how to hunt and butcher, how to set a fire, how to build a house. Are there universities for that kind of thing?

I don't think we should forget that we are at the mercy of nature and live at her pleasure.

Damn, I'm starting to sound like a hippy....

Too late. It's already a done deal. It will take time for it to spread across the globe, but spread it will. And I agree, implementing anything before it's time is a bad call.

I grew up spending a lot of time with my grandfather who was running a trapline by the time that he was like 12. Gun, dog, traps, away from home for months at a time. I learned a lot from him and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I can make fire from common things found anywhere, the only requirement is "dry". I can make tons of different traps and such. I can build shelters from stuff you find in the forest. The list goes on. It's pretty area specific though. Like I would have no idea what to eat if I was in a south american jungle, but I would still have a head start over anyone who doesn't know any of this. I feel all these things are important and I wouldn't trade that knowledge for anything.

On the other hand, he was also a pilot, forest ranger and engineer. So I learned a lot about all that too. My biggest regret is that we never got to build our ultralight. I learned a lot about electrical and mechanical engineering from him. Some basic chemistry and a wee bit of biology. TONS of physics.

So now I love all those things and was exposed to them in a very positive way quite early on. And honestly, it kinda bothers me that most people don't know how their "majik boxes" actually work. Hell, most people don't even know how a TV tube works let alone a high res LCD.

I feel it's important to know both sides of the coin. But make no mistake, IMO it is the same coin. You can't do it all, of course. But there is nothing stopping people from learning the basics and being well rounded. Kinda reminds me of the people who watch the food network for three hours then bitch about how they have no time to cook real food. Ridiculous.

I hear ya! But I see technology in the Arthur C. Clarke way. It frees us from the daily grind allowing us more time to develop other interests and so on. It wasn't that long ago that you learned your dads trade and that was that. Dawn till dusk and more... every day all year. You don't have to be an aristocrat of you wanna learn to paint, know what I mean?

I don't think it's hippyish. Sounds sensible to me. As long as you don't swing too far to one side.

[GoldenBrain]

Is making ourselves more DEPENDANT on technology always moving forwards??

I'll answer your question with a resounding no. I think making ourselves dependent on anything will only serve to weaken us. I feel that using technology to enhance our lives is ok as long as we don't loose our connection to the earth we live on and that we don't do it in an unsafe manner.

I am all for a lot of research. But massively against implementation before its time. Once GM crops are released they contaminate natural ones. This is unacceptable.

I feel the same way which is why I think this type of research should be treated like a biohazard and contained until it's deemed totally safe. That means years and years of research and not fast tracked for the $$$'s.

One thing to consider is that we've been naturally genetically modifying plants for centuries so in principle it's not necessarily a bad thing. For example, corn is only corn as we know it because we modified maize genetics for generations until it became corn. GMO is a little scary and to me unnecessary but if done correctly I'm okay with the research. As Syn pointed out it's a problem with the practice and not the actual science. Implemented correctly, laboratory modified crops could be beneficial to our species.

With that said RenDaHai, we aren't that far apart you and I. I was very lucky to have invested well and therefore was able to retire at a relatively young age. I retired a Senior IT Analyst from a fortune 50 company that anybody in the US would know by name though I'll keep that to myself for now. At some point I just became burned out on technology. Don't get me wrong, I still use some tech such as this nifty Mac that I'm typing on right now, or my iPhone, or my awesome new 70" 3D TV...etc but I demand this tech work for me to enhance my life rather than me for it. I don't feel that I'm dependent on this tech either because at any point I could burn it all, live off the land and never look back.

I have spent the last few years or so weaning myself from my IT life and relearning how to do things more down to earth such as farming, carpentry and other types of wood working, electrical, plumbing...etc. I've spend the last year or so building this excellent house I live in with my amazing wife and child. My dad, who I owe so much of this knowledge to, and I literally built every square inch of this house as well as their home with our own two hands. I've also been very fortunate to learn from my Choctaw brothers and sisters a great many primitive skills such as building fire, making pottery, foraging for wild edibles and medicinals, making weapons, skinning and butchering animals such as buffalo...etc. Many of these skills just can't be purchased, but instead must be handed down generation after generation.

Sorry for the long winded response but I guess what I'm trying to say is sounding like a hippy isn't all that bad. Peace to you and yours!


Edit: I just read Syns response which was posted while I wrote this reply, and it would appear that we aren't that far apart either. It's good to know there are other like minded folk out there.

[Syn7]

Ok, well I can build an RF jammer on perfboard, but that pottery shit is way outta my league. Seriously, you should see the cup I made my mom for mothers day in elementary school I don't even feel comfortable calling it a cup. I suppose it would hold liquid for a limited amount of time, but drinking from it is just right of the question.

I would like to give it another shot. Do you know how to harvest/blend/make/whatever the materials too? I could make one of them spinner deals in like 5 minutes though. I totally feel like this is a skill I should have.


So... while most people watch alien clips, memes, horrid accidents and stuff like that on you tube... I spend my youtube time watching DIY vids. You can learn anything on there if you know how to look for it and weed out the idiots with a cursory glance.

[RenDaHai]

Awesome,

You guys are very lucky to have that kind of knowledge.

I grew up in England and I don't think as many people have this kind of Pioneer attitude.

Its amazing. I am a scientist at heart and I am all for expanding technology and knowledge but not at the expense of essential survival instinctual knowledge.

I agree it is good to give ourselves more time to contemplate by making menial tasks automated, but I think a lot of our education should be on making sure we know how to do those 'menial' tasks anyway.

I remember helping with the harvest here in China (when its harvest time in the village, everyone helps, doesn't matter their role in the village). It was such a great days work. I mean it was tiring, but there was no stress, no pressure, just great exercise, fresh air and community spirit.

All of us need a release of physical activity, whatever our work. It seems like there should be a way to balance some natural manual labour with scientific pursuit.

Self sufficiency and independence is real power.

[Syn7]

Agreed. Whether it's knowing how the tech you rely on works, or how to get by w/o it. No doubt. It's not even a tough balance. Pretty obvious from my perspective. And I realize I am lucky to have what I had, but I have sought out and added much to this base on my own and through work experience and school. I'm glad I was an electrician before I decided I wanted to go into engineering. I learned a ton about all the trades because I'm curious and ask a ton of questions every opportunity I get. We never had much money, but we always had stuff to do that was productive.

[GoldenBrain]

You got me on the RF jammer. I was always just a really good script kitty analyst but never an elec engineer.

Making pottery is not that difficult. It's the firing that's a bitch. Here's a brief tutorial though I'm not going to be able to do it justice with words alone. You really have to sit down with somebody who knows what they are doing and mimic their method. You need to start with a good clay. Any good clay will do but for us to do it the authentic Choctaw way we take a trip to a special place along the Mississippi river and gather clay from the originalChoctaw lands before they were relocated to Oklahoma. You mix the pure clay with finely ground shell or sand so it has a better structure and fires easier. The consistency of the mix is subjective. You basically want it mixed well enough so it blends into the clay and doesn't show through the sides to much when you are molding it into whatever shape. The easiest method is called a pinch pot where you make your bowel or whatever by working it between thumb and fingers and wet it lightly occasionally so you can keep working with it. The consistency when you're working with it should be like silly putty or play dough. When the basic shape is finished you should let it dry a bit and just before it is completely dry you smooth it by scraping the sides and inside with various tools such as thin shells, rocks, metal the thickness of a metal ruler...etc. Different artists use different tools. When the shape is smoothed to your liking then take a very smooth river pebble/rock the size of a US silver dollar and burnish the entire surface inside and out. To do this you just rub the surfaces with the stone in a circular pattern like waxing a car. This makes it kind of shiny and helps it to fire better as well as add color variations. We don't fire our pottery in a kiln but rather in an actual fire built on a flat piece of ground. Lay the pottery around the fire pretty close while it's going and when it burns down to red hot coals move the pottery into the coals and bury it so that coals touch every part of the pottery inside and out. If it's a bowel or other type that has volume then fill the inside with coals as well as burying it. Leave it overnight so that the coals cool completely and dig it out in the morning. It may be cracked or good but that depends on how wet it was when it went into the fire and several other factors. It's a real art but eventually you'll get it.

Here's a link with some pics of pottery being fired. If you want to learn more then do a search for Dr. Ian Thompson who is a good friend of our family. He is the guru of this and many other primitive Choctaw skills and the one I learned from.

http://creativenativeproject.blogspo...g-process.html

[GoldenBrain]

I grew up in England and I don't think as many people have this kind of Pioneer attitude.

I think we are fast loosing this pioneer attitude. People want things the easy way now so we have built up our civilization to capitalize on this mentality. Our economy is mostly driven by envy and greed. Everybody wants what others have and very few people know or remember how to produce. It's mostly the corporations that produce things now and those corporations are made up of people doing compartmentalized jobs towards the common goal of that production but very few of them can do the producing from start to finish themselves.

Self sufficiency and independence is real power.

Indeed!

[Syn7]

I have been putting a lot of time into writing code. Most of my experience is programming microcontrollers and automation. I have been practicing python and already knew the basics of C/C++. Never got too deep in it though. Just not enough time. I learned C++ because most of what I used is based on it. Usually bare bones versions though.

I made a mini forge awhile ago. Never really did much with it. Made some rudimentary blades out of rods, but that's about it. I really just wanted to get the basics. Doing it well takes years. I just wanted to be able to do it should I ever find the need. Just adding to the basic skill set. Maaaan, I say "just" a lot!

I would like to give pottery another try. Weaving too. I have a mechanical weaver on my project list, but it's not a priority(it's a really long list), just seemed like a fun build. Nothing fancy, it's not really that hard. Again, just adding to the basic skill set.

"Jack of all trades master of none, often better than a master of one."