Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Flaca]

Well, I hate to say it, but the fu in kung fu means work, right? These people look like they are having way too easy a time.

I guess that's my big gripe with chain schools is they don't seem to produce a quality product. The last school that I went to that had any effort to it was actually Oyama Karate in NYC. Those guys worked out hard. I always went home sore as hell.

Umm, the pictures are of a festival, not of training. One rarely 'trains' with GM Sin. One 'tests' in front of GM Sin, but mostly one learns forms/katas from one of his 40 or so masters.

[Baqualin]

The "old classical" style of teaching probably didn't include a heck of a lot of forms. According to Adam Hsu (the Sword Polisher's Record) as well as Brian Kennedy and Elizabeth Guo (Chinese Martial Arts Training Manuals) forms were not emphasized nearly as much as single-movement training, drilling, and of course, good old Blood Sweat and Tears. Forms were considered a high-level form of training, for those who had learned how to punch and kick, and move properly and were ready to step things up (Adam Hsu likened them to a Master's degree or PhD.) Anyone who has not read those books, by the way, owes it to themselves to get their hands on them- they are both books that (thankfully) don't focus on showing techniques, but focus more on the informative aspects Martial Arts research.

This is not to say that people who do forms without mastering a style are "doing it wrong." It IS to say that a good, solid understanding of body mechanics and movement as well as the rudiments of that style should be grasped before moving on to more forms. And while it's not necessarily the teacher's responsibility to spoon-feed information, it IS up to the teacher to say "You know what, you're not ready to learn Drunken/Mantis/Tiger/Whatever. Keep working on X before moving to Y." Rather than seeing a frustrated student asking about how to correct issues with the form and the teacher repeating Fortune Cookie wisdom about how one must seek their own path.

Grand Master Sin taught this way in the 60's and 70's into the early eighties. As he got older I think he realized all the material would be lost if he didn't start teaching it out. Also as the schools began to grow across the country students wanted more upper level forms to compete in kung fu tournaments which were starting to pop up everywhere. So the SD form firehose was born along with the evolution of SD itself. For the old time students this has made us happy.....we can now enjoy the benefits of all those years of drilling and conditioning and dreaming of forms we only heard rumors about.....for the newer students it can be a bit overwhelming. The evolution I see there has been enough material taught out to start specializing in a particular system within SD....this is one of the reasons why GSM has separated the internal from the external. This still has a long way to go and politic's has a tendency to slow things down, but the evolution is happening and I for one am very grateful, I can now following my passion of Tai Chi, Baqua and Hsing I for the rest of my life

TTM.....It was a compliment and I think you caught my meaning

[Citong Shifu]

Umm, the pictures are of a festival, not of training. One rarely 'trains' with GM Sin. One 'tests' in front of GM Sin, but mostly one learns forms/katas from one of his 40 or so masters.

Whatever happened to the Chinese martial arts concept of - one master and one grandmaster???? 40 or so masters????? Dont know....

[Baqualin]

Look, the lineage is silly and contradicts history and Willow Sword showed how Su Kong was a circus attraction named Li Baoshu. You can have all the forms in the world but so can anybody who wants to buy allot of books. The fact is everyone I've seen that has watched Shaolin Do in action, and is a Chinese martial arts expert, says that it isn't even Chinese martial arts, let alone Shaolin Kung Fu. It is clear that you are blinded to reason and that no amount of proof or logic works. The average KFM poster tends to avoid this thread. Most of you Shaolin Doka don't venture out of this thread. Instead, you stay here where you can each re-enforce each others denial instead of listening to reason.

Willow Sword PROVED nothing...go back and review the post.....do you have short term memory loss? Also, I see us and all of the same people on all the forums. And who have you seen that's seen the real us...as a matter of fact you where called out earlier in this thread and I have seen nothing from you to justify your martial knowledge other than your fingers on a keyboard...in the words of EML SHOW ME

[Baqualin]

Whatever happened to the Chinese martial arts concept of - one master and one grandmaster???? 40 or so masters????? Dont know....

Where are you located in S. Ill. I was born in Cairo and was raised in the Paducah area...maybe sometime when I go home to visit we can meet and trade knowledge...then you can see for youself....we're very open and good people...always willing to learn and share.

[tattooedmonk]

Look, the lineage is silly and contradicts history and Willow Sword showed how Su Kong was a circus attraction named Li Baoshu. You can have all the forms in the world but so can anybody who wants to buy allot of books. The fact is everyone I've seen that has watched Shaolin Do in action, and is a Chinese martial arts expert, says that it isn't even Chinese martial arts, let alone Shaolin Kung Fu. It is clear that you are blinded to reason and that no amount of proof or logic works. The average KFM poster tends to avoid this thread. Most of you Shaolin Doka don't venture out of this thread. Instead, you stay here where you can each re-enforce each others denial instead of listening to reason.

Ok this is just gone past rediculous...

you seem to be the one that does not understand that nothing has been proven here to say that Shaolin Do is not real Shaolin ...

you are the person that does not seem to understand simple logic and reason...

you believe too much of what is written and perpetuated by other schools but still have yet to show any reason why we should accept what you say as anything other than bullsh**.

what makes their lineage authentic ?? because it is well known, because it is believed by so many people ,because it is perpetuated by the masses because they wear a certain type of clothing , because they use certain terminology , because they wear shoes?? This does not prove anything

like I said your are talking about the people that will lie just to save face.

I have talked to many people who claim this and that about there lineage ..and yet still can not prove anything ..so what if they have scrolls that say this and that and have pictures this person and that person does it prove anything???


so F**KING what if the lineage is silly, contradicts the history and lineage of other schools , Su Kong is the circus performer Li Bao Shu and the forms are collected out of books.

This does not make it in anyway not real Shaolin.

.....like I said Shaolin is philosophical school of thought who's teachings have been added to, adapted to and modified for centuries. Shaolin has gone back and forth between styles and religious affiliation since Ba tuo was first teaching there and when Bodhidharma took over.

Shaolin is a state of mind, spirit, and body ...away of life......it is not a collection of styles, bulidings, or religions.

the name says it all Shaolin Do -The Way of Shaolin

Even if it eventually is proven that it is all made up by Ie Chang Ming and Master Sin then I will still be here telling you it is still Shaolin and that it is a F**KING ingenius piece of work by the artist who created it !!

As far as your other ramblings I am not going to even bother..

you clearly have nothing better to do with your time .

..but let me make this suggestion.... next time you post here.... first pull your head out of your @$$ .... then proceed.... unless you like the view of your colon.

[godzillakungfu]

Whatever happened to the Chinese martial arts concept of - one master and one grandmaster???? 40 or so masters????? Dont know....

Hmmmm I don't know. This is up for serious debate if you really know your chinese MA history.

[Fei jiao]

Every traditional chinese martial artist I know or even only heard of accepts and recognize real kung fu, whatever the style is. They accept Hung gar, Choy Lay Fut, Wing Chun, Fujian White Crane, Tibetan White Crane, Northern Shaolin, Mantis, Lung Yin, Eagle claw etc....as legitimate systems. But if you mention Shaolin-Do they say "what???"
The only people that seem to accept SD as a legitimate style are SD practicionners. I think it's time you guys get a clue.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against what you do, whatever floats your boat. Just don't pretend it's something that it's not, that's all!

[tattooedmonk]

Willow Sword PROVED nothing...go back and review the post.....do you have short term memory loss? Also, I see us and all of the same people on all the forums. And who have you seen that's seen the real us...as a matter of fact you where called out earlier in this thread and I have seen nothing from you to justify your martial knowledge other than your fingers on a keyboard...in the words of EML SHOW ME

To:The Xia...put up or shut the F**K UP!!!..

by the way thanx......I knew what you meant.

[tattooedmonk]

Every traditional chinese martial artist I know or even only heard of accepts and recognize real kung fu, whatever the style is. They accept Hung gar, Choy Lay Fut, Wing Chun, Fujian White Crane, Tibetan White Crane, Northern Shaolin, Mantis, Lung Yin, Eagle claw etc....as legitimate systems. But if you mention Shaolin-Do they say "what???"
The only people that seem to accept SD as a legitimate style are SD practicionners. I think it's time you guys get a clue.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against what you do, whatever floats your boat. Just don't pretend it's something that it's not, that's all!

you realize that the reason why they say that are superficial reasons and to save face.

it is a completely different lineage and tradition..you should take your own advice ..and get a clue!!

I have been stopped at parks all over by chinese people while wearing my "GI" and asked why I do Chinese martial arts but wear a japanese uniform...

I explain and they understand....this whole different appearence and superficial Sh*t has got you all psychologically all f**ked up....

How come it is that all the critics and judges of the style have never taken a class or attended a seminar with us and have only seen video or read web pages and yet seem to be authorities of what is and what is not..I just do not get it!!

It must be retardation or something....


Oh by the way.....you know that Jow Ga practitoners and San Soo practitioners have a different lineage too...plus they have belt ranking systems..... are they not kung fu or Shaolin??

[Fei jiao]

How come it is that all the critics and judges of the style have never taken a class or attended a seminar with us and have only seen video or read web pages and yet seem to be authorities of what is and what is not..I just do not get it!!

Oh, I've seen the video. A video of Sin The doing what is supposed to be a Praying Mantis form (looked nothing like Mantis to me, and he was so stiff he looked nothing like a grandmaster, but hey, if that suits you, fine!). I've seen the web pages too. And no I haven't taken a seminar and I don't plan to either (espescially after seeing your grandmaster perform).

[Judge Pen]

Most of you Shaolin Doka don't venture out of this thread. Instead, you stay here where you can each re-enforce each others denial instead of listening to reason.

That's not all true. I'd say only 1/3 of my posts are in this thread.

[Citong Shifu]

Where are you located in S. Ill. I was born in Cairo and was raised in the Paducah area...maybe sometime when I go home to visit we can meet and trade knowledge...then you can see for youself....we're very open and good people...always willing to learn and share.

Baqualin, Yes, that would ok with me... I would really like to see SD... I have seen one video and lots of SD pics, but nothing that could give me a good idea of what SD really is. Know what I mean.... Anywho, let me know when ur in so. illinois...

Sfiu Ron...

[Yao Sing]

How come it is that all the critics and judges of the style have never taken a class or attended a seminar with us and have only seen video or read web pages...

Something I've been meaning to ask, are SD seminars open to no-SD members?

I don't know enough about SD or the styles it teaches so I can't make any comparisons. I've commented that the local SD guys look like they train just as hard as anyone else in the business.

What I have observed though is the movement and whether the forms are Chinese, Japanese or Burmese the movement itself is much more similar to Japanese Karate than to Chinese Kung Fu.

All humans are built fundamentally the same so techniques can only vary a finite amount. Long weapons and short weapons are interchangeable within each respected group. Hand a Karateka a Kwan Do and I'm sure he could use it effectivily if he has any Naginata training.

What separates them more than anything, I think, is the movement. There is a different flow to most Chinese arts that is missing in SD. I think this is the point a lot of people try to make but the issue of the sets themselves seems to drown it out.

Each stylist will perform according to what he knows. The Japanes turned Zhonguo Chuan Fa into Kenpo, the Indonesians turned Shaolin into Shaolin Do.

[Baqualin]

Baqualin, Yes, that would ok with me... I would really like to see SD... I have seen one video and lots of SD pics, but nothing that could give me a good idea of what SD really is. Know what I mean.... Anywho, let me know when ur in so. illinois...

Sfiu Ron...

Great, I'll email you at the yahoo address so you can get my email and we''ll go from there....plan to be down that way either right before Xmas or right after. Wish all would be as open minded as you...all martial arts are from the same family. Peace