Video: Tan Tui

[Fook Kuil]

There is a TAN TOI teacher in jingwoo assoc in canton, he is very powerful legs he kicks trees and poles.

[YouKnowWho]

We focus on punching on retreat.

There are a lot of this kind of moves in LF that you step back when punching forward. It had bothered me for quite some time because I was not convinced about the application. The reason is that if you step back and punch forward then since you don't have body momentum, your punch won't be powerful enough. One day I suddently realize that it's "2 points contact" and it supposes to be a throwing instead.

[Robert Young]

There are a lot of this kind of moves in LF that you step back when punching forward. It had bothered me for quite some time because I was not convinced about the application. The reason is that if you step back and punch forward then since you don't have body momentum, your punch won't be powerful enough. One day I suddently realize that it's "2 points contact" and it supposes to be a throwing instead.

Well, step back and punch is how I was taught. It shows in many places in LF forms. To me, it is natural. We need to learn how to forward attack. We also need to learn how to retreat and attack. We also need to turn right and turn left to attack. It is all part of training. It is like the last 5 charactors in Tai Chi 13 postures.
You can interprete it as a throw, many people interprete that way too. But again, I still believe it is a step back and punch, simply because it is one of those fundamental things we need to train.

Cheers,

[David Jamieson]

before the punch there is a grab.

the way i learned was to grab, step back and punch.

you are essentially pulling the person into you and striking them as they lose stability from the pull.

I can' only make this happen successfully if I grab clothing though, i haven't been able to pull it off on a wrist or limb grab.

[Knifefighter]

There are a lot of this kind of moves in LF that you step back when punching forward. It had bothered me for quite some time because I was not convinced about the application. The reason is that if you step back and punch forward then since you don't have body momentum, your punch won't be powerful enough. One day I suddently realize that it's "2 points contact" and it supposes to be a throwing instead.

You can interprete it as a throw, many people interprete that way too. But again, I still believe it is a step back and punch, simply because it is one of those fundamental things we need to train.

One of the 7,456,798,567,378,890 things wrong with kung fu- "interpreting" forms.

[YouKnowWho]

One of the 7,456,798,567,378,890 things wrong with kung fu- "interpreting" forms.

This is absolutely true. The following form at 0.15 has a Lan Chan that you move your right palm behind you and then over your head. Someone told me that move can be used to throw a dart at your opponent. I tried that move with dart but didn't feel that angle is good for throwing accuracy (I was one of a million that was stupid enough to try it). Someone also said it could be a training for your eyes but I'm not convinced either. Finally I just have to change that move to move the right arm directly above my head as a overhead blocking instead. My conclusion on this move is that the form designer may design that move for "performance" only and nothing else. If that's the case then no matter how many years that you dig into the form, you can never find the answer.

Mai Fu (ambush):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq3P5...elated&search=

Robert, I would like to hear your opinion on that move. I also added a "flying side kick" at 0.17 before palm striking to the neck. What do you think on that too?

[lkfmdc]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, how do you judge anyting about their applications and/or fighting ability by watching a form?

To me, I actually thought the performances were pretty good... not that it would have any relationship to their ability to fight.

[YouKnowWho]

It's always fun trying to compare the different understanding from the same form interpretation.

[Robert Young]

This is absolutely true. The following form at 0.15 has a Lan Chan that you move your right palm behind you and then over your head. Someone told me that move can be used to throw a dart at your opponent. I tried that move wuith dart but didn't feel that angle is good for throwing accuracy (I was one of a million that was stupid enough to try it). Finally I just have to change the form to move the right arm directly above my head as a overhead blocking instead.

Mai Fu (ambush):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq3P5...elated&search=

Like to hear Robert Young's opinion on that move.

Ok, ok,

The posture is called "Bai He Liang Ci", white crane spread wing. In our LF, we normally call it, "Da Hua" or "Da Hua Shou", meaning "do flower or do flower hand". Most shaolin systems have that posture. And, most systems do that right palm as overhead block. In LF, we practice that as dart throwing exactly like you mentioned.

For me, I practice it as dart throwing. But, you can practice it as overhead blocking. It does not matter which way you do. If you have practice Chinese dart throwing, you will understand how it works. But, most people never practice dart throwing. In our line under my teacher, there are only a few people, less than 5 because I only know 2 have practiced that (my oldest LF brother and me), have learned that.

In LF forms, there are many places (may be too many) that throw darts. Like the form at 0.31. In the past, darts are kept at waist and the side of the lower legs. At form 0.15, right hand goes to waist to take the dart out and throw. At the form 0.31, right hand goes to the right lower legs to take the dart out and throw. Both are very common in many LF forms.

In GM Han's back yard, he set up a target for his students to train throwing dart. My teacher had practiced for a long period of time. But, my teacher has seen people can do better than himself.

There is a story my teacher told me. When my teacher was young, they practiced at the park. One time, there was an older guy came to visit GM Han. He was an Taiwan CIA agent and was an student of GM Han from mainland China. He greeted GM Han and asked GM Han and said something like "Teacher, could you please take a look at my dart throwing". Then, he open his coat, there were dozons of little darts under his coat. He took out five darts, each dart was held between his fingers and one in the middle of his palm. Then, he started to shoot at a tree. He threw his darts one by one, But it was so fast, it looked like he throw 5 darts at same time. My teacher was so amazed by his dart throwing skills. But, my teacher had never seen that person again.

Yes, it is a dart throwing move. That is why the guy flipped his wrist while he was doing it.


Cheers,

[YouKnowWho]

I have to believe that the art of "Chinese dart throwing" will die out in the future generation. My brother in law taught me "Chinese dart throwing" when I was a little kid. He said there were 1/2 Gin and 1 Gin dart (i Gin = 1 lb?). It's called bao if it has tassel at the end. It's called Sou if it doesn't have tassel at the end. When I was in my LF school, I used to bring Bao to my school and we trained how to catch Bao when it fly toward you. We were kind crazy back then but lot of fun.

There is a move in Si Tz Tan that your left hand grab your opponent and raise your right foot (toe points up with knee bending) and then pull out a dagger from your boot and then stab that dagger in your opponent's heart. I could do that with lighting speed without letting my opponent notices. It almost likes fast gun drawing in the old western movie. I have not seen any current LF guys train like this. My mom must drop my head on the ground when I was a baby.

[Robert Young]

I have to believe that the art of "Chinese dart throwing" will die out in the future generation. My brother in law taught me "Chinese dart throwing" when I was a little kid. He said there were 1/2 Gin and 1 Gin dart (i Gin = 1 lb?). It's called bao if it has tassel at the end. It's called Sou if it doesn't have tassel at the end. When I was in my LF school, I used to bring Bao to my school and we trained how to catch Bao when it came to you. We were kind crazy back then but lot of fun.

Many CMA skills or techniques are dying out. My teacher had learned several souther systems before he came to Taiwan. He knows so many exotic weapons that we have never seen before. Now, those things have gone away with him.

Even in LF, GM Han used to teach "Pai Da", Iron Shirt. But, no one pick it up. My teacher mentioned GM Han has a LF Iron Fan form. I had never had the chance to learn it. My teacher also trained Iron Sand Palm under GM Han, and none of us has trained that. LF has another Palm training called "Yin Gong Zhang", Yin means hard, Gong is like gongfu, Zhang is palm. Yin Gong Zhang probably is the most common palm training in LF. GM Han used to have the bags set up for his students at his house. Many of us has trained that, but I have never heard other LF uncles taught it. None of our students are ready or interested in it. Even the Qing-Na that GM Han most famous for are dying out. Just in our LF, these training methods are either gone or dying out. I bet many other systems also have similar problem. Many systems actually disapeared in mainland.

Oh well, time changed. We just have to do our best to pass down what we have.

[YouKnowWho]

If all CMA guys wear spikes ring on their finger, carry darts on their waist, hide dagger in their boots, carry long sword on their back, and Kuan Dao on their shoulder then MMA guys will never say that CMA has no "ground fight".

[David Jamieson]

If all CMA guys wear spikes ring on their finger, carry darts on their waist, hide dagger in their boots, carry long sword on their back, and Kuan Dao on their shoulder then MMA guys will never say that CMA has no "ground fight".

my kwan dao weighs to much to cart around all over the place. Can i use an accolyte to carry it for me?

[Knifefighter]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, how do you judge anyting about their applications and/or fighting ability by watching a form?

Exactly... without an opponent, the movements cannot be judged as anything other than isolated movements in the air.

Can you imagine trying to intrepret a Muay Thai fighter's shadow boxing routine?
"Oh, that hook was supposed to be to the jaw."
"No it wasn't. It was to the side of the head."
"No, it was to the ribs of a taller opponent."
"Actually, it was a feint. Didn't you see how it was followed by that strong uppercut?"
"Nah, you guys are full of it. It wasn't a hook at all, but, rather, a movement to set up the prum."

Just ridiculous.

[SifuAbel]

"Oh, that hook was supposed to be to the jaw."
"No it wasn't. It was to the side of the head."
"No, it was to the ribs of a taller opponent."

Bwahahahahaha LOL ROFL!!!

Only you have this problem.

Bwahahahahahahaha