Originally Posted by lunghushan
Just the kind of insight that I expect from the internet.
Camel Tao
Just the kind of insight that I expect from the internet.
Registered User
I dunno what to say Iron Weasel. If you want to stuck out your butt there's one school where they practice it.Just the kind of insight that I expect from the internet.
They call their school 'vertical force' or something, so it sounds right up your alley.
http://www.guensystem.com/vertical_gallery.html
Camel Tao
Well...Martial Arts/****erotica...all in one. Did ya learn about this website in prison??
"Hold him still, si I can tuck his tailbone!" -- Lunghushan, Cell block B
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No, through heated discussion with Lonnie, the guy in black on page 4, I think, about their sticking their butts out.
You want someplace that AGREES with your premise, here it is. The ONLY place that I know of that AGREES with you.
Just thank the Internet.
Registered User
Lunghushan,
I am confused...
Knifefighter, in practical terms, just explained what hakka players do. Why does he need another explanation?
Registered User
Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounded like he was saying MMA players do this and not KF.
Not being Hakka I don't think I'm the best person to explain anything Hakka to him.
Registered User
The structure Knifie described is universal, to any discapline. Even in gymnastics. They call it the Hollow position.
Gymnasts actually use the Green dragon structure too, when they do thier artistic poses, but when it's gets time to get down to business to do thier stunts, the Hollow postition is the name of the game, and that is rounded shoulders, sunk chest stright back, and tucked tail bone.
Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.
For the Women:
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& a
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I realize I showed up here late, but it seems the talk is about structure. It's beyond impractical to use the same structure in punching that you do in grappling, and vice versa. If you punch someone with your butt stuck out, your head stuck up, your back as straight as a string, and your knees quite bent, there will not be much power in your punch.
If you try to wrestle someone to the ground, especially someone who's putting pressure on you, with your butt tucked in, your chin down, your back hunched, and your knees slight bent, well...Good luck on figuring out how to get out of that double leg take down. Better yet, enjoy that knee before the throw.
As for the tun tou fou chum of the hakka players, its just another way of talking about proper natural body mechanics. Any fighter should want to get the best natural body mechanics they can when in combat, no matter the movement. You can hit a person any way you want to. It's possible to stand on one leg and give a powerful hit. It's possible to jump up in the air and grapple on the way down. I would rather not complicate things to those extremes though, but that is just me. Heell, I dunno...
Wannabe MMA guy
This thread delivers.
"If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar
"I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir
<BombScare> i beat the internet
<BombScare> the end guy is hard.
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"Are knee shots legal in UFC? Wow, I did't know that!! I thought there was no video of knee breakes, because no one did them, because they were against the rules!"
A knee kick is not an end all that many people think. Leg kicks are allowed in UFC, Mo Smith made Tank Abbot quit at one from leg kicks, but he kicks at 80mph.
kicks to the side and back of the knee are common.
I own many GD tapes, I like Chinese MA's, I would study with them if I was near them because I do like what they do, but the techniques will not work as they are shown.
Knife Fighter is right.
Restore the Constitution
I see this kind of response quite often on here and I really don't see it as appropriate. Every time some, usually Knifefighter, makes a claim something is useless the comment like 'it's not a fight ender' usually pops up.
The thing is fights consist of a lot more than 'fight ender' and I doubt anyone is claiming a lot of these moves are the 'end all' of fighting.
Nobody expects a knee kick to end a fight but it certainly can (possible, not a guarantee) inflict damage and set up more damaging moves.
I think the knee kick is more in line with use against an untrained, unconditioned fighter that's not prepared to deal with leg attacks.
A lot of these moves have their place in a fight and it helps if you have enough of an arsenal to draw for depending on the situation. Fight ending moves usually need a set up or diversion to be successful.
They all work in conjunction and taking a move on it's own and relying on that to save your butt is not a safe strategy.
When seconds count the cops are only minutes away!
Registered User
I have used a knee strike to set up other attacks. I agree it has a lot of value.
But there are a ton of TMA people who never fought who want to belive they can beat any MMA fighter with a quick kick to the knee because MMA is a sport and they study a true combat style.
I also hear alot how many of these people (and they are on this forum) say that if eye strikes were allowed everything would change or if groin strikes were allowed.
(In the early UFC's groin strikes were alowed)
You say no one expects a knee kick to end a fight, but so many do.
Wannabe MMA guy
I used to be like that. Then I got schooled by a noob MMA fighter and I changed my opinion very quickly.
"If you like metal you're my friend" -- Manowar
"I am the cosmic storms, I am the tiny worms" -- Dimmu Borgir
<BombScare> i beat the internet
<BombScare> the end guy is hard.
Member
You can doubt all you want there, buddy. I don't need someone to come onto a forum and tell me what I have and have not done. It appears to me that you're feeling threatened as someone has stepped up having performed this exercise and has actual first hand experience of it.I sincerely doubt it. That it was done correctly, that is, if in fact it was done at all, daily, at maximum tension, for the period of time it would require to build from 9 reps per exercise to 47.
Just about impossible to get to that number, correctly done, without inducing some of the collateral internal effects.
Anyone with minor qigong experience will notice how unbalanced this exercise will make you. Judging by your comments towards me iron tiger, you know this as well. John Allen is a prime example of this- How many people have watched one of his videos and thought he could at any moment defecate a brick? This is not an attack on his authenticity or skill nor anything other than a mere observation of his demeanor.
All in all there are much better tension sets out there imho. Sets that focus on yin energy as well as the yang; sets that focus on use of the legs in more than just stances; sets which don't leave you feeling like you're on steroids; sets which focus on BOTH sides of the body equally and don't require modification to that effect.
You can doubt as much as you want, my friend. I'm not here to prove myself to you. I'm not saying John Allen is a phony, nor do I care. I do have doubts as to the truths of some claims made by Green Dragon, but that's only because I have in fact trained s.w. as I said and I know just how taxing such an exercise can be.
Iron Tiger's comments only further reinforce the point I was making. If it's so unbelievable that an average joe such as myself could reach 47 reps, then what makes Green Dragon so special they can easily double that amount as if it was a walk in the park? ESPECIALLY if I am doing it wrong as Iron Tiger claims and it still took me over 2 HOURS to complete 47 reps!!!???
Believe what you want to. I merely posted to give my $0.02 on the matter. Take it for what it's worth...
Amitabha
Registered User
And I will; easy to do based on your info (as well as lack thereof). But it's nice to have your permission to do so, thanks.You can doubt as much as you want, my friend
Hope everyone else had a nice & productive holiday, too. Interesting reading. Not much new, but interesting nonetheless.
And btw, regarding one post: Allen did receive some instruction from Chang, as well as meet him.
Regarding one other: I've been in LOTS of high-profile CMA etc schools, and there are a TON of them who aren't as 'in shape' or well-conditioned as they seem to believe. So it's no surprise that so many students out there have some of the 'opinions' they do about...various things.
About the GD 'curriculum': covered fairly extensively not only in the Inside Kung Fu cover story some years back (Dave Cater certainly endorses and supports what they do, fwiw), but I've also seen it written about in some depth on other sites now & then (although it was a friend who steered me to those; don't spend a lot of time online; and have finally reached my frustration maxpoint in terms of re-logging in every time I try to post something here, wow).
In closing, there's clearly a whole lot of stuff just simply not being taught, or taught properly when it is, out there; particularly, imho, in terms of what can be done in terms of building up and using the chi and how some of the forms training will do that.
Too, too bad. But it doesn't mean that no one is learning it.
Oh, glad you liked the pic; thought it might give you some comfort. And about all those MMA-ers I've "beat up": what I will say is, at least I'm sure I don't harbor any false sense of security about what I can do.
I'd go into the forms, chi & various mechanics (eg Green Dragon's stance is absolutely correct for the way they fight, especially in terms of drawing power from the legs while maneuvering) more in-depth but you guys obviously aren't at all interested in 'content' except for more ways to apply your excellent 'selective thinking' skills. So be it. Gotta follow your bliss, I suppose.
Take care, and get those reps in, you who know what I mean.
"Ignorance is bliss..."
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