hand training harmful

[JDK]

the nerves in the hands connected to the eyes and the heart? wow i never knew that. thanks fer tellin me now i make sure not to mess them up ^^. also what do you mean by proceed slowly? like dont train too much?

thx for all the help

By proceeding slowly I mean dont think results come overnight.
Internal Training is a Marathon...not a Sprint.

The body needs time to adjust to Iron Palm training, even under the best supervision and proper Medicines and Herbs.

Here are a couple of Charts showing key Meridian/ Acupuncture Points...I will try and find more detailed ones

http://www.karate.butsu.net/anatomy/skeleton.gif

http://www.russbo.com/seidokan/seidokan_iron_palm.htm

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DG

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DG

http://www.tcmcentral.com/Acupuncture/acu_EAR.htm

http://www.tcmcentral.com/Acupuncture/acu_channels.htm

[JDK]

12 Since the fingers are connected through the meridians to the eyesight, again, relaxation of the arm and body are essential. Only the amount of muscle needed to actually hold the hand in its proper form should be used. The arm and body stay relaxed as always, and gravity alone provides the acceleration into the strike.


3 The hand strikes flat and relaxed on the bag surface. Any muscular exertion or tension can cause damage to the heart, as the shock of the strike returns through the heart acupuncture meridians. (Repeat, starting with 10 to 20 strikes per hand. Eventually, from 50 to 100 per day may be performed. Complete the training with one hand before striking with the other.)

http://www.russbo.com/seidokan/seidokan_iron_palm.htm




JD

[Lbtsang]

ah this is good information. now i know how to prevent damage. thx alot!

[JDK]

Your welcome~

See new thread I posted on DIM MAK for more details...

JD

[JDK]

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...866#post729866[

[dougadam]

I have been doing high repetition push ups on my knuckles on concrete for years. And I still type fine.

[Lbtsang]

well i mean if you want hands that can break marble like this guy

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mraKJTfqVzw

and i thought taekkyon was for your feet ^^

[kidswarrior]

Good decision Lbtsang.

Find a qualified Teacher and proceed slooooooowly.
The nerves in our hands also connect to our eyes and heart.( Among other things) So it is very important not to damage your hands.

Also as you seem to know....the Internal Method will permit more dexterity of the fingers and wont make your hand look like Foot.
JD

Well, I'm 55, and 40 years of boxing, street nonsense (I was younger and foolisher ), and early on in my asian martial training (10-15 years ago), trained under some guys who didn't understand joints at all (let alone qi and meridian lines!) I've broken 21 bones in martial arts, and not one of them ever hurts today--except the fingers. And my hands do look kinda like feet. Takes me about 30 minutes to make them work in the morning.

What you need to know has already been said by others here: go slowly (Jimmy H Woo always said, If you want to go fast, slow down); don't hit hard objects with the hard parts of your hands (Muhammed Ali, Joe Frazier, and proabably a lot more than we know of the greatest boxers had arthritis in their hands in their 20s, while still fighting; wrapping and gloves won't prevent this over time); I teach my students to hit hard with soft (e.g., use palm heel or knife hand, which are padded, to the face) and soft with hard (use fist to groin, inner thigh, neck or throat [that's potentially lethal, tho, so only for extreme emergencies]).

Anyway, just don't want you to get shephered down the wrong path as I did. I can work through it, but why do that to yourself when you'll be a better fighter with more flexible hands?

[JDK]

I have been doing high repetition push ups on my knuckles on concrete for years. And I still type fine.

Your push-method is good and very effective, but isnt quite the same as IronPalm training.

You are not STRIKING your Palm ( front & Back) repeatedly, nor thrusting your fingers into beans, pebbles, small rocks, glass, etc...

The Direct Method of Iron Palm is very Damaging...but the results may show up years after the abuse.

The Indirect Method is preferred..because it is safer, and prolongs and helps maintian the dexterity and feeling in the hand, while decreasing the chances of effecting the organs connected in the habds to other body systems.

Keep doing those Knuckle Push-Ups! And if you havnt tried this already...start by adding weight to your body as you do them..and eventually work up to having a 150 pound person sit on your back while you do the Push-Ups

Your gains in strength will almost double.

JDK

[JDK]

Well, I'm 55, and 40 years of boxing, street nonsense (I was younger and foolisher ), and early on in my asian martial training (10-15 years ago), trained under some guys who didn't understand joints at all (let alone qi and meridian lines!) I've broken 21 bones in martial arts, and not one of them ever hurts today--except the fingers. And my hands do look kinda like feet. Takes me about 30 minutes to make them work in the morning.

What you need to know has already been said by others here: go slowly (Jimmy H Woo always said, If you want to go fast, slow down); don't hit hard objects with the hard parts of your hands (Muhammed Ali, Joe Frazier, and proabably a lot more than we know of the greatest boxers had arthritis in their hands in their 20s, while still fighting; wrapping and gloves won't prevent this over time); I teach my students to hit hard with soft (e.g., use palm heel or knife hand, which are padded, to the face) and soft with hard (use fist to groin, inner thigh, neck or throat [that's potentially lethal, tho, so only for extreme emergencies]).

Anyway, just don't want you to get shephered down the wrong path as I did. I can work through it, but why do that to yourself when you'll be a better fighter with more flexible hands?

GREAT POST kidswarrior!

Thanks for sharing your real-life experience.
I am a fan of Boxing and the ALI-FRAZIER triology of fights, and you are absolutely correct. It is amazing to me that Ali beat Foreman in Zaire...his hands by that point were so sore and painful, he stated that every punch he threw hurt when it landed....same for his last "Thrilla in Manilla" with Frazier.

Any qualified Western Physician will tell you our Hands were not made to hit.
The small bones and their structures are not well suited for repetitive striking of hard objects.
The early UFC Fighters didnt wear hand Gloves like they all do today...and many won the fight,,,but broke their hands in the process.

Thanks again for your testimony

JDK

[NJM]

punching boards

Don't do that.

[JDK]

Don't do that.

I agree.

JDK

[kidswarrior]

GREAT POST kidswarrior!

Thanks for sharing your real-life experience.

JDK

Thanks for listening to an old man (such a lost art these days).

[Lbtsang]

i see so ill probably stay away from fists and concentrate on palm. it also seems like hitting with the palm generates alot more power?

[YMIAN]

Iron Palm should include Internal and external aspects. I have done Iron Palm under not so good teachers and guys who really know there stuff. If all your doing is rubbing jow on before/ after and hitting boards your really going to screw up your hands later in life.

Along with the jow you should be doing internal exercises that promote blood flow to the hands (and join the body together). Your hands should be pumped with blood before you begin striking any board/ concrete etc.

Most internal MA will say that you dont need to pratice iron palm. An effect of internal arts is the flow of Qi/ blood thro the hands. In the art I currently study we have students breaking bricks/ river stones/ boards without ever doing iron palm, altho the option is there if you want it.

Study the internal arts and you will understand. After some time a natural response to a possible fight situation is that your body will move qi/ blood to your hands therefore protecting the joints from injury.

Matt