How effective are Martial Arts in Self Defence

[buddabelly]

Quote from site:
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what happened, you have to come up with
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http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/legal.html

[lonewolf]

why are people talking about football here? this is for martial arts nerds. wussy jocks that want to wear pads, slap each other on the rear and chase each others balls around can go elsewhere.

[SevenStar]

why are people talking about football here? this is for martial arts nerds. wussy jocks that want to wear pads, slap each other on the rear and chase each others balls around can go elsewhere.

exactly... martial arts NERDS.... buncha keyboard warriors.

[JDK]

... However, they won't have to learn western boxing, either. longfist striking, for example, would work fine.

I respectfully disagree. I continue to practice Longfist and it would be no match for a trained UFC Fighter's Western Boxing Punches .

BUT, in mma they MUST grapple. there is no way around that. Otherwise, they will be hopelessly lost once they get taken down. there is plenty of grappling out there though - they don't HAVE to train bjj, though. they can train judo, wrestling, catch, etc. A member on this forum - ultimatewingchun - trains wing chun and catch wrestling.
the requirements are proper training for the venue and a combination of striking and grappling. Without those, you don't stand a chance, whether you are traditional or sport based. A western boxer with no ground game would be lost in mma as well.

I agree 100 percent...no question, you are right on the button..68 UFC's in 14 years to back it up

they don't train for the venue. that said, you have a few guys with a traditional base who do really well, but they now train for the mma venue. cung le, david louisseau, georges st pierre...

Again I couldnt agree more.
Your training "for the venue" is exactly my point...you have been able to state it better than me.

No. It is a matter of training for the venue, as I keep saying. Put the mma guy in a kyokusinkai match and he may get stomped, because it's not what he trains for.

DARN! You were doing so good, and I was being so agreeable.

Just as the Kyokushinkai martial artist would NEVER dare step in to Today's UFC ( A few tried in the early days and almost got killed) without learning all the applicable arts for UFC fights....a UFC Fighter would dominate every Kyokushinkai
artist who tried to rely only on his Kyokushinkai training. IF said Kyokushinkai Fighter trained for the UFC Venue..they could be successful,

But you gotta know down deep in your heart, that Ortiz, Silvia, Matt Hughes, Liddel, etc...would KILL Kyokushinkai martial artists in their Kyokushinkai Venue.

Unfortunately its not a two way street.

Not all..but the Top 20 UFC Fighters are so highly skilled and trained for brutal strikes.....they would simply be too much for even a well trained Kyokushinkai artist..

Dont you agree ?????? Here's even a trailer to watch so others can decide their opinions... I even picked a good looking string of hard strike knockouts by the Kyokushinkai fighters. But they dont have a Tank Abbot ( in his prime) rushing across the Mat at them...and can you imagine what a Chuck Liddel strike would do to these honorable Traditionalists ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5FQIN-hFo

the colts left baltimore in like 1983...

My bad man.....thats cold embarrassing me about it though

I stand corrected..the Indianapolis Clots....

JDK

[unkokusai]

why are people talking about football here? this is for martial arts nerds. wussy jocks that want to wear pads, slap each other on the rear and chase each others balls around can go elsewhere.

Awww...someone got beat up by the football team in high school. You'll get over it in time, champ.

[JDK]

Originally Posted by SevenStar
... [B]However, they won't have to learn western boxing, either. longfist striking, for example, would work fine.[/b]

I respectfully disagree. I continue to practice Longfist and it would be no match for a trained UFC Fighter's Western Boxing Punches .


I agree 100 percent...no question, you are right on the button..68 UFC's in 14 years to back it up

Again I couldnt agree more.
Your training "for the venue" is exactly my point...you have been able to state it better than me.

DARN! You were doing so good, and I was being so agreeable.

Just as the Kyokushinkai martial artist would NEVER dare step in to Today's UFC ( A few tried in the early days and almost got killed) without learning all the applicable arts for UFC fights....a UFC Fighter would dominate every Kyokushinkai
artist who tried to rely only on his Kyokushinkai training. IF said Kyokushinkai Fighter trained for the UFC Venue..they could be successful,

But you gotta know down deep in your heart, that Ortiz, Silvia, Matt Hughes, Liddel, etc...would KILL Kyokushinkai martial artists in their Venue.

Unfortunately its not a two way street.

The Top 20 UFC Fighters are so highly skilled and trained for brutal strikes.....they would simply be too much for a well trained Kyokushinkai artist..

Dont you agree ?????? Here's even a trailer to watch so other can decide their opinions... I even picked a good looking string of hard strike knockouts by the Kyokushinkai fighters. But they dont have a Tank Abbot ( in his prime) rushing across the Mat at them...and can you imagine what a Chuck Liddel strike would do to these honorable Traditionalists ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5FQIN-hFo




My bad man.....thats cold embarrassing me about it though

I stand corrected..the Indianapolis Clots....

JDK

[JDK]

Awww...someone got beat up by the football team in high school. You'll get over it in time, champ.

LOL!

I am sorry ...but that was funny.

Please forgive me unkokusai for laughing.

JDK

[unkokusai]

Spread the joy!!!

[The Xia]

Have you ever encountered a true, tough, and technically sound TMAer before reaching this conclusion that they are no match for UFC fighters? You mention Kyokushin Karate. They have a lot of tough fighters. The rule against headshots wasn't there in the past but that's beside the point. If you think that a good Kyokushin fighter can't throw a solid punch to the head because of that rule then I don't think you really know what Kyokushin is about. And you mentioned longfist punching not being as effective as the boxing seen in MMA. Frankly, I don’t think the boxing of some MMA is even close to up to par with most pure boxers. Sometimes it just looks like plain old flailing. Once again though, that's besides the point. Have you ever seen a true, tough, and technically sound longfist fighter to come to the conclusion that longfist punches are inferior to boxing? I'd suggest you take a look at Sifu Lai Hung, a Bak Siu Lam and Choy Lay Fut teacher. He is famous for his full-contact fights all around Asia.

[SevenStar]

I respectfully disagree. I continue to practice Longfist and it would be no match for a trained UFC Fighter's Western Boxing Punches .

I trained longfist once upon a time. there is no reason why a longfist guy could not hold his own. I train with mma guys now, and they aren't always great strikers. Some are more grapling oriented. Longfist has the equivalent of basic boxing punches - they have to train them in a way conducive to fighting. heavy bag, focus mitts, plenty of combinations, etc. MasterKiller also went from longfist to mma and has said that he had no issues keep up with them from a striking perspective, but he was lost on the ground. Now, a pure boxer would likely destroy the longfist guy, but that's a different matter.

DARN! You were doing so good, and I was being so agreeable.

Just as the Kyokushinkai martial artist would NEVER dare step in to Today's UFC ( A few tried in the early days and almost got killed) without learning all the applicable arts for UFC fights....a UFC Fighter would dominate every Kyokushinkai
artist who tried to rely only on his Kyokushinkai training. IF said Kyokushinkai Fighter trained for the UFC Venue..they could be successful,

But you gotta know down deep in your heart, that Ortiz, Silvia, Matt Hughes, Liddel, etc...would KILL Kyokushinkai martial artists in their Kyokushinkai Venue.

Unfortunately its not a two way street.

Nah, different rules, different ruleset. Tito is awesome on the ground, but is a horrible striker. Also, in kyokushin, you can't punch to the face, nor can you grapple. There are also some very good kyokushin guys in K-1. mma fighter georges st. pierre trained kyokushinkai for 10 years, then started bjj.

[SevenStar]

Have you ever encountered a true, tough, and technically sound TMAer before reaching this conclusion that they are no match for UFC fighters? You mention Kyokushin Karate. They have a lot of tough fighters. The rule against headshots wasn't there in the past but that's beside the point. If you think that a good Kyokushin fighter can't throw a solid punch to the head because of that rule then I don't think you really know what Kyokushin is about. And you mentioned longfist punching not being as effective as the boxing seen in MMA. Frankly, I don’t think the boxing of some MMA is even close to up to par with most pure boxers. Sometimes it just looks like plain old flailing. Once again though, that's besides the point. Have you ever seen a true, tough, and technically sound longfist fighter to come to the conclusion that longfist punches are inferior to boxing? I'd suggest you take a look at Sifu Lai Hung, a Bak Siu Lam and Choy Lay Fut teacher. He is famous for his full-contact fights all around Asia.

any clips?

[The Xia]

any clips?

There may be some. If there are, I don't know where they are. Here is some information on him. http://www.buksing.com/history/lai_hung/
Here are his kwoons. http://www.htai.com/kungfu/lhcmai.html
An interview where one of his students, Sifu Dave Lacey, talks about him. http://members-central.optushome.com...lf/clfsifu.htm

[The Xia]

In fact, your action here to promote peace whenever possible goes to my belief about why there is no TMA movement underway to defeat MMA's in a contest (octagon, whatever). I personally see the ultimate goal of TMA as building the calm, confident demeanor to walk away from an antagonist whenever possible (if he leaves us no choice, well then, that's the other part of why we train). MMA is intended for the opposite: taking on the antagonist no matter what, and from what I've seen, further antagonizing and attempting to intimidate him leading up to the fight. This posturing, hubris, and trash talking is also why I don't watch boxing anymore.

So here's my question: would a TMA who showed up for a MMA event get a standing ovation for turning and walking away rather than fighting? If not, maybe
that is our answer to why we haven't seen more TMAs in contests: any TMA/CMA master who glorified and promoted violence is not someone I would want to train with, emulate, or send my students to. Fortunately, I don't personally know of any.

Historically speaking, TMA was used for fighting. It wasn't an afterthought. Period. If you'd like I can give you examples. Sure, there are other benefits to training martial arts besides fighting ability but the name martial arts says it all. And there is nothing wrong with competition. I mentioned Sifu Lai Hung. He fought in many tournaments and is a highly respect TCMA master.

[lonewolf]

Awww...someone got beat up by the football team in high school. You'll get over it in time, champ.

hmm i'm sorry i was too busy bringing home medals from tae kwon do tournaments to concern myself with showering with the other guys. how much did you enjoy grabbing balls from between another man's legs? our football team had barely enough guys to be on the field coming from a class c school. besides if you're so good at that game why are you writing here instead of going pro? knee injury? that's always the lame excuse. or did somebody fumble your balls when the draft came to watch you play? in any case your the guy that sits at home ignoring his wife while watching a bunch of boys try to act tough while the rest of us are at home getting laid. high school is over and us nerds have been enjoying ourselves ever since.
p.s. how's the beer gut?

[unkokusai]

hmm i'm sorry i was too busy bringing home medals from tae kwon do tournaments to concern myself with showering with the other guys.

LOL! I knew it! You gotta move on! Sure, you were intimidated and made to feel inferior because the other kids were more aggresive and physically superior to you, but that's all in the past. Let it go! You can get past it!