Ground Proofing DVD

[lkfmdc]

Tim has my respect so it's nice to hear he found something of use on one of my DVD's....

I wouldn't get to worked up over discussions here, and I think for the most part what has been discussed has been productive. more than one way to fall (PS MY WAY IS BETTER joking)

[Yum Cha]

Well, another nice tidbit. My natural fall is curl and roll, but the guys I roll with are telling me to slap, and I've been having trouble getting the instinct. One less thing to worry about.

Just for the record, not a single Traditional guy has piped up to slag this product or the DVD. Thanks for the heads up 3H. From the YouTube clip linked earlier, I see a lot of crossover skills. I've trained several of those takedowns in TCMA.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the DVD is probably the "What's Next" advice?

[Three Harmonies]

Yum
Like I stated earlier I apologize if I jumped the gun.

All of Tim's stand up comes from TCMA of Bagua, Taiji, and Xing Yi. So it should look familiar!

Jake

[Mas Judt]

Jake,
Well, he was only in the mid-200's when I knew him. Honestly, I haven't crossed paths with that guy in over a decade. He was my 'training partner' when I started in Shuai Chiao. Holy cr@p I barely survived the experience. Especially when followed by a Chu Gar beating. But he was a brilliant coach, and I credit him for fixing a lot of stuff.

[Three Harmonies]

Mannie is a great guy, just has some issues and what not. You are dating yourself if you knew him back in the 200#'s! With whom were you two training Shuai under?
Jake

[stricker]

systema also has a different method of falling and hitting the ground safely. they train almost exclusively on hard floors never with mats (but then i also think they don't experience ippons or suplexes etc). think there's some good clips of that on youtube.

someone should start another thread on how to fall on concrete...

another interesting idea is setting up submissions on the way down...

[lkfmdc]

they train almost exclusively on hard floors never with mats

This is, in my professional opinion, RETARDED

training isn't a street fight, you want your students to train hard and train often and experience stuff wihout getting seriously hurt.

This is fake bravado, tough guy nonsense

[stricker]

also i've got tim cartmells book on throws, not really got into the meat of it (ie working through stuff with partner) but the principles and ideas etc are great. also seen his standing grappling dvd, that's very good as well. just simple stuff you can pick up almost immediately but will make a difference to your fighting ability.

also been to his class, was injured at the time so didnt get to join in they looked smoooth on the ground, nice guy, good learning environment.

anyway, dont think i'll pick up this new dvd (i dont fit into the target audience as i grapple and got better dvds to be spending my little $$ on) but i'd like to see it, if its anything like the first i bet i'd have some aha moments watching it

[stricker]

This is, in my professional opinion, RETARDED

training isn't a street fight, you want your students to train hard and train often and experience stuff wihout getting seriously hurt.

This is fake bravado, tough guy nonsense

chill dude,

you obviously have no idea what systema guys do!

they DONT slam each other on the ground etc!!!

it starts off lying down literally playing roly-poly rolling on the ground, they are VERY slow and progressive... builds up to breakfalls and rolling breakfalls, then jumping into them...

check out :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnrBSqzJMDI

[Three Harmonies]

I have to agree with Ross here. I have a friend up here who has permanently ****ed his back up from doing stupid Systema falls on concrete and objects etc. No one slammed him, just doing simple breakfalls he herniated disks, pinched nerves etc. AND he did it RIGHT (at least how the instructor taught him).
Jake

[lkfmdc]

chill dude,

you obviously have no idea what systema guys do!

I know quite a lot about what systema guys do, plus I have about 20 years of teaching experience....

having people do anyting on unprotected concrete shows a disregard for student safety and also a fundamental appreciation of proper training methods...

You do realize systema is a dot in an ocean of sambo in Russia, right?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Ah systema.....

what can one say other than:
Only 3 things came out of Russia that where worthwhile:
Sambo
Vodka
and...


Her:

[stricker]

I know quite a lot about what systema guys do, plus I have about 20 years of teaching experience....

having people do anyting on unprotected concrete shows a disregard for student safety and also a fundamental appreciation of proper training methods...

You do realize systema is a dot in an ocean of sambo in Russia, right?

well, they have their method just as you have yours. i think mikhail and vlad might have been teaching for a while too...

i dont know what their injury rates are compared to judo or CMA guys. might be interesting to compare injury rates for a 'real' fall for the different methods, then compare injury rates during training.

oh and yeah, i know systema is quite an obscure martial art, and sambo is popular in russia. dont know what relevance that has?

but anyway, dont tell me, tell mikhail or vlad. i think rob poyton who's a systema teacher and did the youtube clip sometimes posts on this forum?

out of interest what are your training methods for learning to take a fall on a hard surface?

[lkfmdc]

oh and yeah, i know systema is quite an obscure martial art, and sambo is popular in russia. dont know what relevance that has?

The relevance is quite simple, systema is the equivalent of two guys in a garage compared to all the pro Muay Thai fghters in Thailand

Sambo has consistently produced high quality grapplers and FIGHTERS

Despite what systema tells you, in the Soviet Union the method of choice for military, police, etc was SAMBO

Sambo trains with mats so you can learn to fall, learn to throw, actually be thrown, and KEEP DOING IT

[stricker]

The relevance is quite simple, systema is the equivalent of two guys in a garage compared to all the pro Muay Thai fghters in Thailand

Sambo has consistently produced high quality grapplers and FIGHTERS

Despite what systema tells you, in the Soviet Union the method of choice for military, police, etc was SAMBO

Sambo trains with mats so you can learn to fall, learn to throw, actually be thrown, and KEEP DOING IT

sure i know sambo's good, i train with a few

systema say the elite special ops used systema, but i dont care about that myself, or as a pro for sambo... wt is taught to german spec ops, boxing in the british army, etc...doesnt mean much either way... argumentum ad populum or argumentum or ad verecundiam ...

i know that systema people would disagree with you and i know that health is a big part of their system.

anyway as for what i think:
a) they (systema people) know something about falling. its different to other approaches, so worth examining whats in common and whats different.
b) if you care about falling on hard surfaces, it might be worth experimenting occasionally on hard surfaces, making sure to be careful and work progressively. it's like sparring, most of it should be done with boxing gloves, but every once in a while it's good to use little mma gloves, or fight.

i also think knifefighters suggestion of looking at what parkour people do is a really good idea!

ps i think the two guys in the garage might have developed something special have you met or trained with any good systema people?