The end of tradition?

[Jeffoo]

thank you


well, you know if I get too much positive feedback I start that whole self-sabotage cycle thing, so it's probably for the best if the latter...

LOL here I was about to give you some excellent positive feedback about how much you think like me....in your best interest I will refrain. :P

[sanjuro_ronin]

l started training before most of you were born probably before any of you were. l have read all of your opinions and agree with most. but not all . l started when most styles had as little as 3 or four kata in japanese styles watched while some have over 10 being added my first style had 4 . when l first learned pak mei l was taught 3 sets . the rest l learned in the event l was to teach which was never my goal. l remember when people started to be a forms collector thats when clubs started to become money makers ,the more forms you could teach the money you made. the old clubs taught to fight that was the tradition . we made fun of clubs offering huge numbers of forms. we have watched forms being added as commercialism became the norm. fighting or learning to,became less and less part of training . being banged up and bruised after a class was the norm not now . one thing about mma and other such sport fighting on t.v. as l see it bull**** artists are being forced into proving what they do . which in my young days was the norm and if they fail hopefully will be closed down. so what l see we had tradition that was to learn to fight. not listening to we are to dangerous to fight others and other silly stories. so most are taking about what we discussed back then as we saw it changeing into what you think is old tradition but isnt in most cases really old tradition . old tradition was to learn to fight . and older styles who in some places still are taught have few forms at all because the teaching of it isnt for money. martial arts was for fighting not becomeing more spiritual . in my life l have seen tma go from good to bad and now some are coming back to the basics thats a good thing . for tma you dont need to have large numbers to keep it alive just a few of quaulity.

Another good post.

It seems that, from a certain point of view, MMA is more traditional than the majority of TMA that claim to be so.

[cjurakpt]

It seems that, from a certain point of view, MMA is more traditional than the majority of TMA that claim to be so.

man, only January, and we already have what's more or less the post of the year...

[cjurakpt]

LOL here I was about to give you some excellent positive feedback about how much you think like me....

now that's scary...

[sanjuro_ronin]

man, only January, and we already have what's more or less the post of the year...

I have my moments...

I have never been a big fan of MMA in terms of the stuff like UFC and such, I feel they market it more like pro wrestling than a true MA competition format.
But in terms of Ruleset and "philosophy", MMA is right on the button:
Test it, use it, drop it if it doesn't work for you.
Test it in an environment that is as close to the real thing as possible and test it with other trained fighters and not some untrained bum on the street.

[cjurakpt]

I have my moments...

I have never been a big fan of MMA in terms of the stuff like UFC and such, I feel they market it more like pro wrestling than a true MA competition format.
But in terms of Ruleset and "philosophy", MMA is right on the button:
Test it, use it, drop it if it doesn't work for you.
Test it in an environment that is as close to the real thing as possible and test it with other trained fighters and not some untrained bum on the street.

100% agreed - it still boggles my mind that any TCMA practitioner can't recognize the obvious benefit of being in an environment that includes something like MMA - enough with the air of superiority and theoretical justifications as to why TCMA won't deign to sully it's hands with MMA folks: I mean, you've got an entire population of fighters who are psyched about mixing it up and finding out what really works and who aren't psychologically hamstrung by the fact that your teacher is the lineage holder of a 10,000 year-old system; the only "risk" is possibly finding out that the traditional style you've spent decades of your life doing doesn't give you much return on your investment...no fun there!

as my teacher says, "let the wind blow!"; meaning that, if it never blows, you don't find out how strong your roots are...

[lkfmdc]

MMA is more traditional than the majority of TMA that claim to be so.

for revealing the "holy secret" your membership in the "society" has been revoked. You must now return the decoder ring, the jacket and your parking spot at the club. We will also have to change the secret handshake

[sanjuro_ronin]

100% agreed - it still boggles my mind that any TCMA practitioner can't recognize the obvious benefit of being in an environment that includes something like MMA - enough with the air of superiority and theoretical justifications as to why TCMA won't deign to sully it's hands with MMA folks: I mean, you've got an entire population of fighters who are psyched about mixing it up and finding out what really works and who aren't psychologically hamstrung by the fact that your teacher is the lineage holder of a 10,000 year-old system; the only "risk" is possibly finding out that the traditional style you've spent decades of your life doing doesn't give you much return on your investment...no fun there!

as my teacher says, "let the wind blow!"; meaning that, if it never blows, you don't find out how strong your roots are...

Truly, it boggles everyone's mind.
I don't get it, you train to fight, no matter what the final goal the fact is, you are trying to fight, why would anyone have issues in seeing if their training works ?
And not versus classmates that you know the in's and outs of them, or some non-trained people on the street but VS people that can actually fight.

[sanjuro_ronin]

for revealing the "holy secret" your membership in the "society" has been revoked. You must now return the decoder ring, the jacket and your parking spot at the club. We will also have to change the secret handshake

Not thew parking spot !!!!
At least I get to keep my supply of Wang Dong Sexual enhancer.

[SteveLau]

Many good posts show here. TMA like other traditions, which might has some good and some bad aspects. Sure, we would like to retain the good and wash out the bad. Sometimes it happens so, but sometimes it does not. That is how human society works.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[Black Jack II]

u never see westerners showing the same passion they show for kung fu
for western fencing on such a huge scale do you

True, but you do see a lot of westerners show this passion for firearms and the "kung fu" it requires to use them. Weapon's are a evolution from the fistic arts and it's always best to go with what works the best and fastest in the most perfect circumstances.

The invention of the firearms was one of the main reasons the western cultures got rid of of a number of its own vast hand to hand fighting systems, hand to hand styles, swords, spears, what have you.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

It seems that, from a certain point of view, MMA is more traditional than the majority of TMA that claim to be so.

Reply]
I have been saying this for ten years now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
It seems that, from a certain point of view, MMA is more traditional than the majority of TMA that claim to be so.
man, only January, and we already have what's more or less the post of the year...

Reply]
Not only have I been saying this for ten years now, but I am certain I have said it recently as well.

[Shaolinlueb]

Chinese martial arts, like a lot of traditional martial arts, simply don't have resonance with the youth today. TMA has become forms heavy, and flowery, and bogged down in mysticism and crap. TCMA has been castrated and emasculated. What was once the venue of "tough guys" (many gangsters, Diego will be thrilled to now read this thread) and very much about fighting has become the "art of scholars and monks" for "health", "enlightenment" and granola eating

What's worse, is how many people supposedly doing TCMA have NO IDEA where it came from, what it was like in the old days and simply buy into the "feel good" PC crap being passed off as TCMA

and i can't agree with you more. there are very few schools who arent "granola eaters"