OT: Racially Biased Tests?

[Facepalm]

These things are kindof like ... okay? So you look at the question ... sea lions live in the ocean then come up on land... so a moose lives in the forest, and sometimes goes in t he water ...

A car goes on the highway, and sometimes falls off into the ocean, and sometimes comes up on land ...

A picture comes out of a camera sortof, not the other way around, usually, unless a camera is in a picture (a picture of a camera).

Some buildings have elevators and they usually don't go around ...

So what is the question? It depends ... like if somebody from the inner city doesn't watch T.V. that much or live near the ocean, they might not even know what a sea lion is compared to somebody who lives near the sea.

Therefore, it is sortof socio biased in a way, that depending upon somebody's sociological background, they might have a different answer.

Even if you dont know what a sea lion is youd have to assume its an animal and I mean come on it has the word sea in it so youd have to assume that ocean is supposed to mean where it lives.

[Mas Judt]

racial quotas as a concept is racist. lol

Thanks, but I'll take competence over racial quotas any day.

David just put the truth through Affirmative Action and it got the job...

[doug maverick]

i scored a freaking 1500 on my sat(this is before they change the scoring) and i didnt think it was racially biased at all, just some bull**** excuse some black pol. or activist made up, im sorry but any ****er would know a moose and forest. alot of these kids dont prepare themselves for the SAT, in public schools some take it as a joke.but according to the latest statistics blacks scores are not that far below whites, so obviously the whole racial issue is malarky.

[andyhaas]

Not true.

The test was given. It was overseen by a racially profiled group of Caucasians, African-Americans and Hispanics. It was specifically designed and managed to NOT be a test where a specific group had an advantage over another.

The test results were thrown out because the minorities performed poorly - except one Hispanic who joined the law suit because he studied hard and did well on the test. And the city was afraid of being sued by the minorities. (what for? not letting those unwilling to apply themselves to be promoted? That has NOTHING to do with race, ad everything to do with the character of the people involved. It is disgusting that this would become a racial issue.)

It is a sad thing that the best, most qualified people are denied the job because of their race or fear of law suits by minorities.

Our politicians are cowardly. They look to curry favor by giving away jobs and largesse - rather than encouraging people to be the best they can be.

The point of the lawsuit I think was something like it wasn't given for 3 years since it would give only white guys opportunity to advance. It wasn't the initial results so much or them throwing them out -- it was the 3 year thing supposedly was the problem.

http://www.adversity.net/newhavenfd/default.htm

The upshot is that as of the date of this posting (12-11-06) -- three years after the race-neutral exams were administered -- vacancies have been allowed to go unfilled and are temporarily occupied by firefighters in an 'acting' capacity. Some of the temporary 'acting' firefighters occupying these positions actually failed the Lieutenant and Captain exams, thereby endangering firefighters under their command and the public at large.

[IronWeasel]

I know this is a touchy question but I really dont get it.

Exactly how are tests racially biased?



B)MOOSE:FOREST

.

I've never seen a live moose up close, so I'd probably miss this one. My answer would read more like:


B)MOOSE:SQUIRREL

[IronWeasel]

says the guy from OHIO!

Our slogan is "Akron Happens!"

[BoulderDawg]

I would like to know the racial breakdown of the fire department.

Statistically that makes a difference. If there are only three black guys in the department and none of them passed you could say they just didn't have what it took. However if there are a hundred black guys there and none of them passed I doubt you could make an argument that the test was fair.

I think in the future we will have test scores as only one factor and not an end all be all to who gets promoted........Does anyone here actually think that Bush could have passed some sort of rigid test to be president.

[Mas Judt]

bouldersawg ez: "I think in the future we will have test scores as only one factor and not an end all be all to who gets promoted........Does anyone here actually think that Bush could have passed some sort of rigid test to be president."

The test is NOT the end-all, be-all. You had to qualify to be a firefighter first, have a good record in your job and almost certainly there was an experience requirement. All of those are qualifications to take the test. The test, if anything would level the playing field to the most qualified/capable.

GW Bush had degrees from Harvard and Yale. - his grades were HIGHER than John Kerry's at Yale. John Wayne Taylor - who we have not heard from since he was called up for service after 9/11 worked for W at the statehouse in Texas, and called him one of the most focused, intelligent men he ever met.

I can easily drag out dumb statements that the current 'dear leader' has said, or Nazi Pelosi and I can easily make a case that they incredibly stupid. Which is only true in Pelosi's case. Obama is certainly an intelligent man, just not a very wise man...

[BoulderDawg]

The test is NOT the end-all, be-all. You had to qualify to be a firefighter first, have a good record in your job and almost certainly there was an experience requirement. All of those are qualifications to take the test. The test, if anything would level the playing field to the most qualified/capable.

Maybe but if you don't pass the test then you're out....that's an end all be all in my book.

[andyhaas]

Even if you dont know what a sea lion is youd have to assume its an animal and I mean come on it has the word sea in it so youd have to assume that ocean is supposed to mean where it lives.

As a side note, when I was in college I went to the ocean and was swimming around, and there was this sea lion and I thought, "Great ... let me go see the sea lion."

When I got closer, I was like, "Great ... let me get out of here ASAP before it maybe devours me."

They are kindof scary up close. They are BIG compared to people.

[Lucas]

he was probably mad because he thought you were moving in on his harem of wenches.

[Mas Judt]

Maybe but if you don't pass the test then you're out....that's an end all be all in my book.

You are not 'out' if you fail the test - you just are not qualified for promotion.

By your way of thinking we should allow people who failed the medical boards to be allowed to practice medicine. Or Law Students who failed the Bar exam to practice as lawyers -- why? Because it is more 'fair'? How the heck is it fair to the person who wants to use that service and trust that the person they hire is qualified for the job?

You do realize you make no sense at all...

[BoulderDawg]

Last time I checked being a firefighter did not take years of postgraduate study.

Also I don't hear anyone complaining about the bar or the medical exam. If there was a situation where black people who were qualified to take the test were failing 90+% of the time then it would be time to take a look at that to.

[Mas Judt]

Well, if you actually read the story, the test was designed and monitored to ensure fairness. If someone failed it, it was not due to race. That a disproportionate number of a specific minority did fail, says nothing about the minority in question, but does say a lot about the individuals who failed the test. It said they were not ready for management.

[SavvySavage]

There's an interesting book entitled, "Why America's So Great" by Denesh...something. Look it up. Denesh was an immigrant who came here from India. In the book he calls reparations for slavery a farce. I'm going to sum up his chapter relating to this subject:

He said that racially biased exams are bull because black AMERICANS(to distinguish from blacks from Haiti, Jamaica, Nigeria, etc) score lower than whites and asians on all standardized exams. Even the middle to upper class blacks score under poor whites and asians. Black Americans also score less than black immigrants who moved here from countries just named and more. How can all these tests be so racially biased if blacks from other parts of the world are doing better than black americans?

Note: Obviously not all black americans fall into this category. Most do according to the statistics of this book.

Everyone complains about immigrants but they seem to have the right attitude. They work really hard at crappy jobs and then instill into their children the need to do better. The children of these immigrants end up going to good colleges and holding better jobs than their parents.

I believe that racial quotas are needed because there are so many white people(most of the population) in this country that they'd be in all the schools and have all the jobs. Hear me out before you white people get angry. Racial quotas are supposed to follow percentages. For example, if 80% of job applicants or school applicants are white than that means 80% of the people accepted HAVE TO BE WHITE. If 5% of applicants are black than that means only 5% of the people in the school should be black. Same with asians and everyone else. It isn't racism if most of the people at a job are white because you have to look at the percentages of who applied. Racism occurs when: 80% of white people apply, 10% black apply, 10% everyone else, and then EVERYONE that works there ends up being white. That's racism. It's also racism if 80% of applicants are white, 5% black, but most of the people that end up getting hired are black. That's also racism.

Do you all catch my drift?


The NBA is made up of mostly black males. It's funny that no one cries racism there or that they don't even consider that racism.

Any hypothesis on why back americans score lower than EVERYONE ELSE on tests across the nation? Liberals will talk of societal racism and stupid theories like, "Black males are often percieved as wanting to be rapper thugs so that in turn makes them want to rebel and fail." Someone actually told me this and believed it.