See H.F.Y. on Youtube!

[Marcelo-RJ]

Ciao, Victor!

Benny is a fox. He smelled a good opportunity in the air when he saw a combination of an unscrupulous guy that dreamed to be acknowledged as a Wing Chun teacher and a bunch of ignorant (in the sense of low level of intellectual instruction) people whose inclination to be blind followers was obvious. So, there it is: Benny's promised land is now the North of Brazil, the poorest portion of this land. Just take a look at the pictures of Benny Meng's "most successful workshop" and the other pictures on his Brazilian website, and you'll see that he's dealing with people whose faces are marked by suffering. It's a shame that he takes personal advantage of people like that.

[Chango]

I find this to be very silly.

Let me be clear my comment on drill after drill is simple.

All I've heard year after year is stories about fighting etc....

I personally have been in many fights etc.... and stepped in the ring many times in san sau, Chi sau, Rolled with BJJ guys and the boxing ring etc... So alot of the fantasy talk about fights etc... simply ran it's course with me! I personally had to take a look around at many of the Hung fa kwoons and in SF who is fighting? Outside of texas, KC,Indiana and Ohio? All I heard was BS about "taking people out really quick and sport fighting is a waste" I've heard people in the HFY family try to BS me about fighting past that can't be documented etc...

Regardless of what any of them have to say about my Sifu Meng's martialarts has produced state and national champions in TKD, Kung fu etc.... every year for close to 21 years. Not to many schools can say that. That's sport fighting but it is fighting and not Keyboard fighting etc...

Yes, I roll after BJJ/Luta Livre seminars, but that is not fighting either.

Perfect example! Ask the HFY guys how often they spar. I mean going Tap/Choke and medium to heavy contact???? once a week? once a month? How many times do they do this a year??? I can say that we've had many GM share info at the VTM and at some point live energy outside of a drill has been addressed. I had issues with this drill upon drill method. As a matter of fact I've heard criticism about doing to much "outside of the box" stuff because I encourage my students to mix it up as often as possible.

Everytime I visit my Sifu's school we get to spar in one fashion or another!!! I have personally had experiences of using things from his teaching to save my life against bigger and stronger people! i could have never recieved this from a drilling etc.... format.

My biggest issue was not the HFY system. It is the politics and the fantasy that you can be a great fighter by just training drills.

I have to admit there are many different issues and I share personally all of those same issues with HFY that was on Alex's site. I have much more back ground info and other larger issues, that I'm not going to share becuase I'm not interested in doing damage to the HFY Lineage! Even though Marcelo continues to attack my Sifu.

Marcelo/Victor stop hating! No matter how much energy you use to try to tear down Sifu Meng with rumors etc.... there will be those who will have a chance to meet Sifu Meng face to face and at that point it will all be clear. Keep in mind the VTM recieves all sort of calls and contacts from one guy/lineage trying to destroy another guy! Then we make contact and it all becomes clear! LOL! As a matter of fact we've had potential guest contacted by haters saying negative things about the VTM. Once again once the come face to face they see it's just haters!

The VTM is has always been a place where all Wing/Weng chun hell all martial artist are welcome!! If you can't and don't want to come that's fine! but no need to hate!

As a VTM representative I'm proud to be able to offer my students a oppertunity to learn not just one Wing/eng/Weng Chun point of view! We are of only a very few people on this planet that can offer this point of view!

I'm very proud to say I've personally met and had training experience with Moy Yat, Chu Tsun tin, William Cheun, Andreas Hoffman, Garrette Gee, Suhu Lin,Ip Ching, Ip Chun etc......

Most people who come to me to learn martial arts. It's that simple. As a kung fu guy I have huge respect for lineage etc... But what I'm seeing on this thread is nothing but trash talk etc...

Has anyone else come to the conclusion that this thread has turned into a waste of time ? Man I went away for a day and I tried to get caught up and I can't say I feel like I gained anything having read this.

No need to hate just participate!!

[Ultimatewingchun]

"Marcelo/Victor stop hating! No matter how much energy you use to try to tear down Sifu Meng with rumors etc....there will be those who will have a chance to meet Sifu Meng face to face and at that point it will all be clear." (Chango)

.......................................

***AGAIN, Chango...these are not rumors, these are facts.

I know very well what the game was he played with my first instructor, Moy Yat; what the game was he played with the students in Moy Yat's school; what the game was he played with the VT museum; what the game was he played with facts and history as he pitched HFY in the numerous magazine articles in KUNG FU MAGAZINE; what the game was when he first met and attended two of my present sifu, William Cheung's seminars; and now it's becoming public what the game was/is he's playing with Garrrett Gee and the HFY organization. And I even know what the game was he played with Andreas Hoffman and Weng Chun - as I got to meet and work out with one of Andreas' top guys here in NYC several years ago. After receiving an email from Andreas telling me that his man was in town and he wanted him to meet/workout with me.

There's no hiding any of this. You can deny all you want - but you will get to hide nothing. And the biggest "hating" of all is his (and apparently your) hatred of the truth.

As for any day of reckoning if he and I ever come face-to-face for a second time - please don't make me laugh.

There's nothing I have to fear from Benny Meng.

[Chango]

Victor,

We've heard your side of things over and over! No one fears or hates what you have to say! I can only show compassion for those who hold hatred! I'm not interested in playing a point by point ****ing match with you. All I can say is that everyone who may be reading this and has never met Sifu Meng. Just simply consider the source and content and take the time to meet the man. Then judge for yourself. It's that simple!

No one has ever said you "fear" anything! LOL! Victor please let's not beat our chest here! We know we are all big bad kung fu men here!! LOL!

I fear no man!!! (as long as my wife says it's ok) LOL!

[duende]

I find this to be very silly.

Let me be clear my comment on drill after drill is simple.

All I've heard year after year is stories about fighting etc....

I personally have been in many fights etc.... and stepped in the ring many times in san sau, Chi sau, Rolled with BJJ guys and the boxing ring etc... So alot of the fantasy talk about fights etc... simply ran it's course with me! I personally had to take a look around at many of the Hung fa kwoons and in SF who is fighting? Outside of texas, KC,Indiana and Ohio? All I heard was BS about "taking people out really quick and sport fighting is a waste" I've heard people in the HFY family try to BS me about fighting past that can't be documented etc...

How many times have you been to SF? Once??? Twice tops?? Because from my experience the only person who actually trained with us consistently from Ohio be it either sparring or skill challenge drills was Mike Mathews. Brad Ryan, and Daniel Hernandez trained as well, but only more recently when they joined the organization.

All great guys btw... And we always made it a point to go at it after hours at the seminars. I'd like to hear any of the guys I mentioned stand up here and say what you have. They won't, because they have trained with us, and they know how hard we work. You don't because you were never here in SF for the seminars or the after hours sparring.

As for our Phoenix school, they mixed it up with the Texas school you mentioned. And who got hurt??? Not anyone from the Phoenix school.

Injuries happen, and I know Brad's school has had some great successes. My point is your statement has no merit in regards to their school either.

As for your comment in regards to sports fighting.. Who said that and when?? At best you have taken some statement out of context. We just believe in SF that if you want to learn ground fighting that you should go to an actual jiu jitsu school. We don't try and sell a whole program to students when they enter our door to study WC.

Regardless of what any of them have to say about my Sifu Meng's martialarts has produced state and national champions in TKD, Kung fu etc.... every year for close to 21 years. Not to many schools can say that. That's sport fighting but it is fighting and not Keyboard fighting etc...

I'm not talking bad about Master Meng or his school. I only shared my opinion regarding the video and the pathetic burning of some T-shirts. I think that you guys offer good schools out there and I wish you continued success. We simply have gone our own separate ways.

Perfect example! Ask the HFY guys how often they spar. I mean going Tap/Choke and medium to heavy contact???? once a week? once a month? How many times do they do this a year??? I can say that we've had many GM share info at the VTM and at some point live energy outside of a drill has been addressed. I had issues with this drill upon drill method. As a matter of fact I've heard criticism about doing to much "outside of the box" stuff because I encourage my students to mix it up as often as possible.

Go ahead ask us. We do medium contact San Da every weekend. But typically we do not wear pads, just face protection and sometimes gloves to protect our fingers. We do wear pads sometimes for heavy contact, but more often prefer instead to bridge with full contact, and then pull our punches at striking range. This allows us to condition while still maintaing freedom of movement etc...

As for any criticism about "outside the box" program it was because we disagree on when "outside the box" material should be taught. Again you are portraying information out of context. Which is especially silly here because it was Sifu Gee who taught us all about the concept of "outside the box" fighting in the first place!

The difference is simply that we belive that the student should first establish a WC identity. Meaning that they know how to utilize WC stuctural energy and body mechanics before incorporating "outside the box" techniques.

We also encourage our students to go mix it up. We encourage them to go visit other schools and question everything they are taught.

Everytime I visit my Sifu's school we get to spar in one fashion or another!!! I have personally had experiences of using things from his teaching to save my life against bigger and stronger people! i could have never recieved this from a drilling etc.... format.

My biggest issue was not the HFY system. It is the politics and the fantasy that you can be a great fighter by just training drills.

This issue has already been addressed by others here.

When learning how to apply body mechanics within a WC concept... Fixed drills are for beginners, Live drills are for intermediate, San Da drills are for advanced. Even MA's with years of martial arts experience need time to retrain their body and learn how to use the proper body mechanics of the material being taught.

I have to admit there are many different issues and I share personally all of those same issues with HFY that was on Alex's site. I have much more back ground info and other larger issues, that I'm not going to share becuase I'm not interested in doing damage to the HFY Lineage! Even though Marcelo continues to attack my Sifu.

Not interested in doing damage?? Are you sure about that?

As for Marcelo's actions, remember it was your Sifu who brought him into the fold. Don't try and blame Marcelo's actions on us. Same for Ghostdog and Cimaroon.

Chango if you are tired of the trash talk then let this thread die.

I certainly am tired of it too.

[Marcelo-RJ]

Chango:

First of all, I'm not writting as a HFY man. I'm writting as a person who, as happened to many others in Rio, was deceived by your sifu, Benny Meng. As a person who put a lot of money and energy in a project that in the end has proven to be a personal, egoic and egoistical project of your sifu, Benny Meng. I'm writting, Chango, as someone whom Benny Meng addressed on the face as his "favorite student in Brazil" but behind the back was called many a bad name.

I could be writting as a HFY man, if, and only if, your sifu had taught me HFY. Instead, he only shew us something after GM Gee confirmed that he'd come to Rio in September 2007. Oh, and there's one detail here: he wanted us to learn by watching a DVD so that he could only make some adjustments personally. The same thing, btw, that he's doing right now with Alex Magnos, who proudly beats on his chest and says he's got more DVDs than we in Rio have, since he's got everything that was taught in SF until Benny quit the Association.

Great deal? Nope. I'm quite convinced one cannot learn HFY (or any other MA) through video/book. So, how come someone acknowledge someone else as a MA expert, if the later was but a virtual student throughout his life?

You wrote:

I have to admit there are many different issues and I share personally all of those same issues with HFY that was on Alex's site. I have much more back ground info and other larger issues, that I'm not going to share becuase I'm not interested in doing damage to the HFY Lineage!

What backgroud information do you have and what are the other larger issues? If you really did not want to cause demage to the HFY lineage, why should you insinuate there are things still worse than those that are declared at the VTM Brazilian website (which, BTW, are but the reflection of Benny Meng's thoughts and attitudes)? You simply repeat the same thing that's written there - "there are more horrible things, but since we do not want to cause demage, we will keep them for our own". This is cr@p. This is coward. The subliminar message behind it is: we are fair and they are vilains. Be direct if you dare, or simply assume that Benny Meng is no more a HFY man because there was no more space for him within the family. He was given many chances. Many. But he did not change his behaviour. He did not stop to take the others' money without giving them HFY lessons back. He did not stop badmouthing his SF brothers. He did not stop forcing his Shaolin-whatever program down through the throat of his students under the affirmation that GM Gee's teaching method was uneffective (something that you clearly reproduce here). He didn't stop building his parallel organizantion, through which he used to sell whatever he wanted - his own products, his own MMA program, his own WC his-story etc - under the label "HFYWC". He, and he alone, created the distortions that led him away. Even and now, can't you guys be men enough and assume it?

You wrote:

Ask the HFY guys how often they spar. I mean going Tap/Choke and medium to heavy contact???? once a week? once a month? How many times do they do this a year???

Let me tell you this: I've never ever seen Benny Meng sparring, although I've met him regularly for five years.
Yes, I've heard him saying that he bet Sergio Iadalora right before GM Hoffman's eyes. I've heard him saying he bet many WC men. I've heard him saying he was getting prepared to smash Alan Orr's face in the UK. I've heard him saying he would take a flight to shut Robert Chu's mouth up. But I've never seen him sparring.
It's funny to read the things you write about how hard you guys fight in OH, because, here in Rio, Benny Meng has NEVER accepted my invitations when I wanted to take him to local MMA gymns in order to introduce him to my teachers and give him an opportunity to show that, as HE used to put it, (his) HFY system would counter and defeat any style.

You should listen to what Duende said. Benny's method is like first you have to learn how the others fight so that one day maybe you'll learn how to fight as a Wing Chun guy. GM Gee's method is: first you stablish your Wing Chun identity, then you (must) start proving yourself as a WC guy against other fighters.
And I tell you this: because I wasn't trained correctly, although I fight very well, I cannot express myself as a Wing Chun man when I'm fighting. So, if I fight as my MMA colleagues do, why on Earth did I dedicate so much effort, time and money for WC training?
Sorrym, dude, but it seems you guys have also missed the opportunity to learn what GM Gee had to teach; in your case, because you guys did not empty the cup (too much pride, hum?).

You wrote:

As a VTM representative I'm proud to be able to offer my students a oppertunity to learn not just one Wing/eng/Weng Chun point of view! We are of only a very few people on this planet that can offer this point of view!

See? You guys are blinded by pride. As the kid from Fortaleza reported, Benny convinces you easily that you are the only ones who have "all the pieces of the puzzle". You are so blessed, aren't you?

there will be those who will have a chance to meet Sifu Meng face to face and at that point it will all be clear.

The point is never clear with Benny Meng. Actually, Benny is that kind of person that is easy to like. He really plays well the good boy role. He knows how to manipulate information and people's thought. I myself stayed by Benny's side and went against my brothers for three years before I decided to bring his actions to the table and to expose that he was betraying GM Gee and the HFY family. So, I'd not be surprised if, like happened to Hudson, people got charmed by Benny's easy talk. But the mask always slips. Always.

As Victor put it: these are not rumors, these are facts.

Be well,

Marcelo

[Ultimatewingchun]

First of all, I have met Benny Meng, Chango. And to some extent, your right: even though this is a "new" conversation regarding the recent turn of events in the HFY world - the whole thing is really getting old. It's the same old story with Benny Meng.

[LSWCTN1]

The picture is a bit too grainy to discern properly. Do you think the top digit looks like the thumb tucking in rather than the index finger? I think the thumb is to the side but the index finger has got a weird angle - maybe phoenix eye fist?

If you look at the other guy then clearly (to me!) he does not have his thumb in his fist. I wouldn't expect Garrett Gee to be any different.

Cool... my apologies. However you are simply incorrect about the thumb.

i have looked at it again to try to be fair.

i still think that his thumb is inside his closed hand, but i could be wrong

anyway, it not an action shot - its a picture that was taken whilst he was demonstrating the movement to him so if he does/doesnt who cares?

the guy is meant to have some real skills, and supposedly used to invite his students to-be to try their hand with him first. thats not always the way in TMA's anymore

i do think its true that a picture paints a thousand words

[Chango]

How many times have you been to SF? Once??? Twice tops?? Because from my experience the only person who actually trained with us consistently from Ohio be it either sparring or skill challenge drills was Mike Mathews. Brad Ryan, and Daniel Hernandez trained as well, but only more recently when they joined the organization.

O.K. I will give the fact that I have not visited the SF location enough to see the training methods! However I can say 1st hand. However when I had a question about regular sparring I was told about "liabilities etc..." and I also witiness conversations about frustrations about not being able to spar etc... on a regular basis. This was from a SF persons mouth! So it's not just me and not a regional thing. I'm not going to call anyone out here.So I will just leave it at that.

I know every time I witnessed and was a part of a "after hour" work out etc...when GMG visited the VTM. For what ever reason sparring was not on the ticket. So it seems from what I gathered sparring and actually full force hitting was not the norm.

So allow me to be clear at this point from what I have experienced there was not enough focus on sparring or real life application. So with that being said I have no issue with the split from a training method perspective. I've enjoyed my training in HFY but I personally feel that there are limitations to the training methods I have experienced.

As for our Phoenix school, they mixed it up with the Texas school you mentioned. And who got hurt??? Not anyone from the Phoenix school.

Are you serious???? for real???? I think you better clearify how the injury occured. I know you are not trying lie flat out on this board about a Phoenix person causing a injury to a Texas student! That's really low.

Not interested in doing damage?? Are you sure about that?

As for Marcelo's actions, remember it was your Sifu who brought him into the fold. Don't try and blame Marcelo's actions on us. Same for Ghostdog and Cimaroon.

I should be clear I was not blaming the rest of you for "Marcelo's actions." I was simply expressing a few issues that I had with his and others actions. I also started to air a few issues I have with HFY. I think you should reread my post I was simply calling things the way that I see them. I wish HFY plenty of sucess.

We just believe in SF that if you want to learn ground fighting that you should go to an actual jiu jitsu school. We don't try and sell a whole program to students when they enter our door to study WC.

I think this has been a huge issue for me personally. HFY never did offer a ground game however it was hinted that there was one. It was even said that there was one in the book. "Complete Wing chun" (I could be wrong)

At the VTM we have experienced lineages that did address ground fighting. I mean beyond "do this or that to prevent being taken down" That was why I was very happy to offer my students ground fighting skills from the "Out side the box" approach.

I'm very happy with what HFY has offered me and may offer me in the future. However at this point for further growth I'm looking in a direction that will offer a more live and free energy approach. As for the content of what I have to offer the public. I'm very happy to be able to expand and offer my students a view of the many experiences I have had outside of the HFY model as well along with the HFY info I have to offer. For me it allows me to have more of a world view (if you will ) in terms of wing chun. But that's another topic all together.


As for Marcelo's actions

First of all, I'm not writting as a HFY man. I'm writting as a person who, as happened to many others in Rio, was deceived by your sifu, Benny Meng. As a person who put a lot of money and energy in a project that in the end has proven to be a personal, egoic and egoistical project of your sifu, Benny Meng. I'm writting, Chango, as someone whom Benny Meng addressed on the face as his "favorite student in Brazil" but behind the back was called many a bad name.

I could be writting as a HFY man, if, and only if, your sifu had taught me HFY. Instead, he only shew us something after GM Gee confirmed that he'd come to Rio in September 2007. Oh, and there's one detail here: he wanted us to learn by watching a DVD so that he could only make some adjustments personally. The same thing, btw, that he's doing right now with Alex Magnos, who proudly beats on his chest and says he's got more DVDs than we in Rio have, since he's got everything that was taught in SF until Benny quit the Association.

Great deal? Nope. I'm quite convinced one cannot learn HFY (or any other MA) through video/book. So, how come someone acknowledge someone else as a MA expert, if the later was but a virtual student throughout his life?-

Once again more rumors half trues and hate! If a video tape is being used to help in teaching that is no big deal! Like you said yourself Sifu Meng is visiting him. DVD and tapes are great training aids. If Meng Sifu is no longer a HFY member he is not bound by the no video policy. BTW I thought you said the Meng Sifu was teaching other things instead of HFY. So are the Video's HFY or the "other stuff" LOL!

Marcelo You don't have to answer that! I will leave at this you are upset with Sifu Meng and Sifu Magnos becuase of thier sucess in Brazil. You can't stand it that Sifu Magnos is doing well and growing. So you are doing what ever it takes to try to damage this sucess. Just like you said elsewhere your are loosing members and he is gaining members! I see nothing but a hater So stop hating!

Benny's method is like first you have to learn how the others fight so that one day maybe you'll learn how to fight as a Wing Chun guy. GM Gee's method is: first you stablish your Wing Chun identity, then you (must) start proving yourself as a WC guy against other fighters.

point well missed what you have dubbed as "Benny's" method the approach is to give the begginner basic generic fighting skills first then give him/her a Wing chun I.D. I think your the one with a pride issue here! LOL!

See? You guys are blinded by pride. As the kid from Fortaleza reported, Benny convinces you easily that you are the only ones who have "all the pieces of the puzzle". You are so blessed, aren't you?

Stop hating!!! No it's not pride simply put as the VTM we have been blessed with the offerings of many lineages and it does offer a very unique Point Of View. Yes blessed we are and we are willing to share!

What backgroud information do you have and what are the other larger issues? If you really did not want to cause demage to the HFY lineage, why should you insinuate there are things still worse than those that are declared at the VTM Brazilian website (which, BTW, are but the reflection of Benny Meng's thoughts and attitudes)? You simply repeat the same thing that's written there - "there are more horrible things, but since we do not want to cause demage, we will keep them for our own".

I will only say this once more. I do not wish to cause harm to the HFY lineage. I'm saying that I do have back ground info on some of these issues and I do have other issues that are not being expressed. So for clearity I will simply say that on both sides of this issue the complete picture has not been brought to the public! I'm not saying that my Sifu did not make any mistakes but I also want to make it clear that there are many others who aren't being honest have been completely dishonest and have purposly misrepresenting the facts.

That's all I have to say about that!

[duende]

O.K. I will give the fact that I have not visited the SF location enough to see the training methods! However I can say 1st hand. However when I had a question about regular sparring I was told about "liabilities etc..." and I also witiness conversations about frustrations about not being able to spar etc... on a regular basis. This was from a SF persons mouth! So it's not just me and not a regional thing. I'm not going to call anyone out here.So I will just leave it at that.

Rents in SF are extremely expensive. Therefore we just don't have the space to have wooden dummys, angry bobs, a full length mirror, and a safe enough area for anything more than light to medium contact sparring.

We've had some close calls with heavier sparring, so for that we train in one of my brother's backyards. They trade off every other month or so. Sometimes we also go to the park, which I personally prefer because we get to touch hands with other MA's. Especially here in SF where training in the park is the norm.

You are very fortunate to have a huge training facility at your disposal. We had to figure out work arounds.

As for the frustrations you mention. Yeah... we lost a lot of freedoms when GM Gee decided to go public. Liabilities etc.. were never as much a concern when we were a private school. However, now we have a solution that accommodates the way we like to train.

I know every time I witnessed and was a part of a "after hour" work out etc...when GMG visited the VTM. For what ever reason sparring was not on the ticket. So it seems from what I gathered sparring and actually full force hitting was not the norm.

So allow me to be clear at this point from what I have experienced there was not enough focus on sparring or real life application. So with that being said I have no issue with the split from a training method perspective. I've enjoyed my training in HFY but I personally feel that there are limitations to the training methods I have experienced.

This is a legitimate frustration. But I will only add that how much can GM Gee really show you in just a couple of days? Especially when he has to make sure and double check that what he taught the last time is still on target.

These are the problems of long distance learning. I think it was always the plan that the regional instructor would then take over and help everyone transfer the knowledge into live applications and sparring.

Unfortunately I feel that the real issues of dealing with and overcoming long distance training, got put on the back burner when other issues came to light.

But I'm just one instructor/student. I tried to help make everything work the best I could. I still consider some of the VTM people my friends. Hope they feel the same way too.

Are you serious???? for real???? I think you better clearify how the injury occured. I know you are not trying lie flat out on this board about a Phoenix person causing a injury to a Texas student! That's really low.

It occurred when a Texas student was sparring with an AZ student. No ill-will was intended. Accidents do happen. But it proves my point that the AZ students spar and in this case weren't the ones who got hurt. Brad runs an excellent school. Daniel's achievements more than demonstrate this. I was not trying to take any of that away by writing what I did. I thought I had already clarified that.

I think this has been a huge issue for me personally. HFY never did offer a ground game however it was hinted that there was one. It was even said that there was one in the book. "Complete Wing chun" (I could be wrong)

At the VTM we have experienced lineages that did address ground fighting. I mean beyond "do this or that to prevent being taken down" That was why I was very happy to offer my students ground fighting skills from the "Out side the box" approach.

I'm very happy with what HFY has offered me and may offer me in the future. However at this point for further growth I'm looking in a direction that will offer a more live and free energy approach. As for the content of what I have to offer the public. I'm very happy to be able to expand and offer my students a view of the many experiences I have had outside of the HFY model as well along with the HFY info I have to offer. For me it allows me to have more of a world view (if you will ) in terms of wing chun. But that's another topic all together.

We do have ground strategy and tactics. And as Marcelo can vouch, they were very effective in Brazil at the seminar there.

I can't help but feel that you lost out on much of the information that was taught to the regional schools. Your statement regarding "live and free energy" makes me think that you never got a chance to truly understand the concept of YING and how it is only the first step in learning CHUNG, LAU, SAAT, and FA.

Without Ying there is no point of reference. No structural energy to draw upon. No breaks to hit and safety belt to rely on when needed.

If the student can not express Ying, then there is no point in progressing to Chung or Lau etc... because the body mechanics required are not present or developed yet... only just illusions. No solid foundation to build upon.

But after all that... here's the rub. YING is ENERGY! Not only that... it is LIVE energy.

I hope this gives you some deeper insight into how and when 'live energy" is taught. Sure we mix it up and do San Sau/San Da. But to be able to truly express core HFY structural energy and body mechanics... one must ultimately follow these progressions.

Otherwise, one just ends up with distortions of body mechanics and therefore requires more techniques, more time and/or trickery to overcome oncoming threats and energy.

Btw.. I say this because of real first hand experience.

Anyways, I am confident that you will be a great teacher and MA regardless of which direction you follow.

Unless there's anymore to be said, I think I'm done with this thread.

Best to all.

[Wayfaring]

So since everyone is talking about YouTube, and Benny Meng, and the Houston TX school under him ran by Brad Ryan I ran across some video from last year where they hosted a Bullshido throwdown. It has videos. It's not HFY on video, but the guy Daniel has studied HFY under Benny Meng - he does local small show fights I think.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=76234

[Tom Kagan]

... but the guy Daniel has studied HFY under Benny Meng ...

Daniel is a student of Tom Dinklage of Katy, TX. Tom's striking skills come mostly from Karate.

Tharuz is a silly, misguided kid who managed to age into an adult.

Eno had no martial arts training at all. He played football.

[Marcelo-RJ]

Chango, you wrote:

Marcelo You don't have to answer that! I will leave at this you are upset with Sifu Meng and Sifu Magnos becuase of thier sucess in Brazil. You can't stand it that Sifu Magnos is doing well and growing. So you are doing what ever it takes to try to damage this sucess. Just like you said elsewhere your are loosing members and he is gaining members! I see nothing but a hater So stop hating!

Man, you do not know what you're talking about.
I am NOT and I do not intend to be a HFY teacher. I love martial arts and I've been into it for 30 years, but I simply have other priorities for the time being.
As you probably know, I'm a federal judge and a post-grade Law professor in my Country. Even if I could, at this particular moment I would not have time to teach HFYWC.

But let me tell you this: even not really willing, I and my friend Jacs have given some HFY lessons to an increasing number of people, four to three years ago. Do you know why? Because your Sifu, Benny Meng, was so obsessed with the idea of numbers, and quantity, and growing, and money-making, that it was mandatory that his "special students" (my case, as well as Jacs') started teaching HFY even without knowing HFY. If we wanted to keep on learning what we believed to be HFY, then we had to pass on what we knew by then to people who shew interest in having Benny as a Sifu. Sounds crazy, hum? That's why he so quickly introduced his "Shaolin Wing Chun" thing in Brazil: since we all had a solid M.A. backgroung before we met him, Benny made us believe there was an all-inclusive HFY program, sanctionated by GM Gee, that was supposed to cover all kinds of M.A. techniques. BTW, Alex Magnos was among the people that joined Benny's organization through our hands. So he used what we knew (a bunch different of M.A.) in order to have us teaching what we did not know (HFY) and have people joining his parallel organization.
Can you grasp the idea, Chango? The man is really a fox, isn't he?

So, Chango, this is the point: I don't teach martial arts. So, why would I care about (1) Meng's organization "growing" and (2) some suckers that believe they'll have "all the pieces of the puzzle"?

What I do care is about finding a few sincere people who are truly interested in learning HFY from GM Gee. The reason is one and only (and simple): bringing GM Gee to Rio is not that easy. There are the costs (we are gentlemen, and, just like we used to do with Benny, we'd like to cover the Grandmaster's travel expenses) and there are the logistic necessities. So, the more sincere people join us, the easier things get.

You wrote:

BTW I thought you said the Meng Sifu was teaching other things instead of HFY. So are the Video's HFY or the "other stuff" LOL!

Maybe you did not have time to read what I wrote. I clearly wrote that Benny only taught us some real HFY after GM Gee confirmed his Sept 2007 trip to Brazil. Then he sent us a DVD, told us to watch it and mimic the techniques so that he could make some corrections and have us "quickly prepared for GM Gee".

If Meng Sifu is no longer a HFY member he is not bound by the no video policy.

So you are saying that he feels free to break his word, aren't you?
This does not surprise me. Benny is not the kind of man that really follows his own advices, specially those related to Chinese philosophy. What you're saying proves that, these days, my friend Jonathan's thoughts about "once a Todai, always a Todai" does not even apply to some well-known people who proudly proclaim that they belong to Chinese philosophers lineage... Nothing surprising, indeed.

Peace out,

Marcelo

[Wayfaring]

Daniel is a student of Tom Dinklage of Katy, TX. Tom's striking skills come mostly from Karate.

Tharuz is a silly, misguided kid who managed to age into an adult.

Eno had no martial arts training at all. He played football.

Whatever, Kagan. Daniel is known to most HFY people as a HFY student under Brad Ryan for the last 4 yrs at least. Brad is currently aligned with Benny Meng. Many people who study HFY have other martial arts backgrounds. He started MMA not while a student of Dinklage, but under Brad Ryan. Nice try, though.

Nobody said anything about the skills of the opponents there, but there is video up - the throwdown was hosted by a WCK guy - Brad Ryan, and his student is sparring, or doing what Bullshido calls a "throwdown". If you can't see any WCK in the footwork or striking, then check your glasses. Or learn something.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Marcelo, your latest post is absolutely astounding! And it confirms everything I (and plenty of other people) already knew about Benny Meng. Meaning that it simply supplies the current details of the kinds of incidents/trickery/manipulation/opportunism we're used to seeing associated with Meng.

Jeez, what you described in that post is pathetic; and quite frankly, it's hard not to believe you. What you described going on down in Brazil just sounds so much like what has gone on here in the United States with this guy.

Different names, places, dates - same old story.