Where is the WCK?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Really?

So when Randy Couture looked at some videos of WCK trapping and said, "that's silly", you think his lack of ANY WCK training invalidates his opinion? You don't think, perhaps, that his experience and understanding of what really goes on in the clinch or attached fighting, what is really possible in the clinch, etc. gives him the ability to look at some martial art or technique or whatever and give a valid opinion?

By that reasoning, the only people who could valid opinions on the effectiveness of aikido, its techniques, and its training would be people who practiced aikido.

The reality is that to say how things do work in an art that you need to have good skill and experience, but you don't need that same level of skill and experience to know what sorts of things don't work.

I am sure that when BJJ came out and people saw "guard pulling" and shoots THEY said to themselves, "That's silly !".

[HumbleWCGuy]

Because it isn't your world.
No one said he was doing WC in that clip. I do Fu Jow Pai in my WC shirt. I skip rope in my WC shirt. So what???? You just have a need to gripe about what others do. I think it gives you a feeling of superiority or something and that's sad.

EXACTLY!! Without context, why is this clip even worth talking about?

[goju]

It's not the videos themselves -- it is what is shown in the videos (the techniques). In other words, it isn't just that the demonstration was poorly done, it was that the very "concept" behind the demonstration won't work and is silly.

If anyone wants to see what sorts of things work in fights, then simply look at fights -- you'll see for yourself. As I said in another thread, if you aren't teaching/training those things you already see occuring in sparring/fighting then you are training to fail.

and you know this how? were you there with randy watching the vid and do you know exactly what he saw and who was demonstrating ?

[t_niehoff]

I am sure that when BJJ came out and people saw "guard pulling" and shoots THEY said to themselves, "That's silly !".

Except you can see "guard pulling" and shoots WORKING in fighting -- you don't need to be skillful to see that for yourself. Of course, there are still people who think those things are silly -- and they keep their heads buried in the sand.

There is all kinds of nonsense that we all KNOW, unless we are deluded, simply won't work. Do I really need to study Dillman's one-touch knockout method to know it won't work? How can we know that without studying his method or being particularly skillful?

If anyone (1) takes off their dogmatic blinders and (2) does a sufficient amount of hard sparring, they can easily get a very good idea of what things simply have no to little chance of working. They don't have to be good to know.

[t_niehoff]

EXACTLY!! Without context, why is this clip even worth talking about?

OK, try to follow this --

We have a tape put up on youtube under the heading "Wing Chun Toronto_6", which suggests that you are about to see something pertaining to WCK, right?

The description of the video is "Sifu Bogdan (in black), light sparring with pro MMA fighter." The mention of "sifu" and the fact he is wearing a WCK logo (together with the heading of the tape) all suggest we are being shown a WCK sifu/fighter versus a pro MMA fighter.

I think most people would expect in that case to see a WCK sifu using WCK in his sparring, particularly when the WCK connnection is highlighted (the name ofthe clip,the sifu title, the WCK logo, etc.).

And nothing is mentioned -- until a user comment is made about "that not being WCK" (gee, I guess I'mnot the only one) -- about Bogdon not using WCK or simply kickboxing.

Granted, I had concluded that this video was meant to be some example of WCK in action. It hadn't occurred to me that someone would label the tape as WCK, describe it as a WCK sifu sparring, but really only mean (or so they say) to be a tape of someone kickboxing. I guess I missed the significance of labeling the tape "wing chun" and mentioning that the person sparring is a WCK sifu when those details have absolutely no bearing on the tape.

[goju]

Except you can see "guard pulling" and shoots WORKING in fighting -- you don't need to be skillful to see that for yourself. Of course, there are still people who think those things are silly -- and they keep their heads buried in the sand.

There is all kinds of nonsense that we all KNOW, unless we are deluded, simply won't work. Do I really need to study Dillman's one-touch knockout method to know it won't work? How can we know that without studying his method or being particularly skillful?

If anyone (1) takes off their dogmatic blinders and (2) does a sufficient amount of hard sparring, they can easily get a very good idea of what things simply have no to little chance of working. They don't have to be good to know.

again your using absolutely rediculous examples to excuse your constant ignorance on various martial art styles you might as well start talking about sanjuros ethiopian sumo next

[bawang]

when i asked my friends they all said wing chun is dirty fighting + speed and the butterfly knife was the main focus not fists

that makes sense if u try to fight against western boxing which is just as old and advanced plus todays modern training and understanding of biomechanis nutrition and max body performance

western boxing has been around for a few hundred years and if u think somehow they are inferior to 120 pound chinese fishermen boxing created on the remote borders of china, which nobody outside fosan even heard of until 40 years ago, then cool

[JPinAZ]

OK, try to follow this --

We have a tape put up on youtube under the heading "Wing Chun Toronto_6", which suggests that you are about to see something pertaining to WCK, right?

The description of the video is "Sifu Bogdan (in black), light sparring with pro MMA fighter." The mention of "sifu" and the fact he is wearing a WCK logo (together with the heading of the tape) all suggest we are being shown a WCK sifu/fighter versus a pro MMA fighter.

I think most people would expect in that case to see a WCK sifu using WCK in his sparring, particularly when the WCK connnection is highlighted (the name ofthe clip,the sifu title, the WCK logo, etc.).

And nothing is mentioned -- until a user comment is made about "that not being WCK" (gee, I guess I'mnot the only one) -- about Bogdon not using WCK or simply kickboxing.

Granted, I had concluded that this video was meant to be some example of WCK in action. It hadn't occurred to me that someone would label the tape as WCK, describe it as a WCK sifu sparring, but really only mean (or so they say) to be a tape of someone kickboxing. I guess I missed the significance of labeling the tape "wing chun" and mentioning that the person sparring is a WCK sifu when those details have absolutely no bearing on the tape.

You're so full of it. No matter what the video is titled, you'd find an issue with it. You have a personal issue with Phil, and it's obvious every time you post here saying things like he doesn't know how to teach, his videos are crapp, what he does won't work, etc. So, you constantly troll his videos and try to knock what he and everyone he's associated with are doing. Same goes for how you act towards just about everyone else here.
I'd like to see you prove that phil and his guys don't know what they are doing and can't fight - personally. I'd love to see T in action cleaning up the WC world physically. Tape it too! Now that would be a great video!!
I'll personally buy the plane ticket.

And here you are, making such a big deal out of nothing. You really are sad.
Bogdon wanted to do some light sparring as a kickboxer with a pro. I'm sure he didn't stop to say "wait, I should change my shirt. I wouldn't want to have this video show up on a WC youtube channel and have people, and most importantly, the Great T, think this is how I do WC!!"
Followed with "Oh krap, forget the experience of sparring as a kickboxer with a pro altogether- I should only be doing WCK on tape since I hold a 'sifu' title!!".

So, Phil labeled it WC - who friggin cares! (well, besides you). Here we have a video of a guy light sparring with 'someone good' as you say we should all do, and you still find faults - with t-shirts and labels!
I know you're going to whine like a little girl, but I'm going to say it - you're a friggin idiot.

[t_niehoff]

You're so full of it. No matter what the video is titled, you'd find an issue with it. You have a personal issue with Phil, and it's obvious every time you post here saying things like he doesn't know how to teach, his videos are crapp, what he does won't work, etc. So, you constantly troll his videos and try to knock what he and everyone he's associated with are doing. Same goes for how you act towards just about everyone else here.
I'd like to see you prove that phil and his guys don't know what they are doing and can't fight - personally. I'd love to see T in action cleaning up the WC world physically. Tape it too! Now that would be a great video!!
I'll personally buy the plane ticket.

Speaking of personal issues . . .

And here you are, making such a big deal out of nothing. You really are sad.
Bogdon wanted to do some light sparring as a kickboxer with a pro. I'm sure he didn't stop to say "wait, I should change my shirt. I wouldn't want to have this video show up on a WC youtube channel and have people, and most importantly, the Great T, think this is how I do WC!!"
Followed with "Oh krap, forget the experience of sparring as a kickboxer with a pro altogether- I should only be doing WCK on tape since I hold a 'sifu' title!!".

As I said, that's great -- but the description of the tape doesn't say THAT nor does it suggest THAT. It all suggests something else. Just like Phil's tape labeled "training with boxers". It's not a big deal, but I don't think it is being honest.

So, Phil labeled it WC - who friggin cares! (well, besides you). Here we have a video of a guy light sparring with 'someone good' as you say we should all do, and you still find faults - with t-shirts and labels!
I know you're going to whine like a little girl, but I'm going to say it - you're a friggin idiot.

Phil put the tape up (and he labels it, right?) and it looked like he was posting it as an example of WCK. That's why I brought it up. I searched the latest WCK clips for some laughs and that came up on the search. I thought he was using it as an example of WCK because of how the clip was labeled and described (by him) --and it came up on a search for wing chun clips. Now he says that it wasn't an example of WCK. OK, fine. So I said that his labeling and description was misleading -- that it could give people the wrong impression. You'll notice the other commentators or other people on the forum, including you, didin't say "hey, I don't think that's meant to be a WCK clip".

Why does this matter? Well, it matters if you want your viewers to know what they are viewing, that it isn't meant to be WCK for example.

[anerlich]

I don't expect you to either understand or appreciate my POV.

Your POV is understood, though better expressed by your predecessors and betters in the MA's you advocate.

The sledgehammer finesse with which you persist on incessantly ramming it home, your dogged persistence in making mountains out of molehills and your poorly disguised attacks on forum members like Phil are (some of) the reasons your presence here is, um, underappreciated.

If the training methods you advocate work, they should work for you. All evidence is that you have so far failed in managing to demonstrate any competence in fighting whatsoever, thus making your arguments questionable. That's why you are continually challenged to put up or shut up. I vote for the second option (shutting up), but that seems unlikely.

[Wayfaring]

I think I'm completely missing something here. What is exactly wrong with the clip? Did the "goat stance police" write him a ticket or something? Aren't people supposed to put gloves on and spar?

[anerlich]

I am sure that when BJJ came out and people saw "guard pulling" and shoots THEY said to themselves, "That's silly !".

Guard pulling is pretty silly except in BJJ competition.

[JPinAZ]

I think I'm completely missing something here. What is exactly wrong with the clip? Did the "goat stance police" write him a ticket or something? Aren't people supposed to put gloves on and spar?

Haha, exactly.
T's just but-hurt because he was looking for WC on the internet, found a clip with WC in the title, saw a 'sifu' in a WC shirt sparring with a pro, got excited, but was let down when the sifu wasn't using what he was expecting to see as wc. So he came here to whine and cry about it. Great forum

[Knifefighter]

Guard pulling is pretty silly except in BJJ competition.

Not necessarily. Two guys I train with snapped people's arms in confrontations. Neither was the aggressor, but one of them was charged with aggravated assault. The guy who was charged took down a guy who tried to punch him and snapped his arm with an arm bar from the mount.

The other guy pulled guard and threw on an arm bar. The guy who who got his arm snapped was arrested because all the witness saw him as the aggressor on top on the ground.

I've pulled guard many a time in stick fights to disarm sticks and once using the shock knife.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Not necessarily. Two guys I train with snapped people's arms in confrontations. Neither was the aggressor, but one of them was charged with aggravated assault. The guy who was charged took down a guy who tried to punch him and snapped his arm with an arm bar from the mount.

The other guy pulled guard and threw on an arm bar. The guy who who got his arm snapped was arrested because all the witness saw him as the aggressor on top on the ground.

I've pulled guard many a time in stick fights to disarm sticks and once using the shock knife.

Nice point.