Banned
Well, I just watched that one video and it was bad for so many reasons.
It's never good when two people in the ring have shirts on. When one is wearing kung fu pants
He should have realized he was in trouble when the guy agreed that he could wear MMA gloves and he'll stick to nice cushiony 12 oz.... that means the other guy doesn't think you can connect well and that he'll connect so much, and with such power, that the pillows don't matter..... and they didn't.
Banned
I love Ali. I was just trying to make a point.
Everyone loves Ali and he's "The greatest." Watch his early fights, before the rope-a-dope .... everything was built off his long jab. Usually backing up and circling. That was the differentiator.
To explain to someone who doesn't know grappling the importance of knowing when to have under hooks, what to do when you have to settle for over hooks, all the ways to improve position from each position (guard, side control, north/south, mount, turtle). All the ways to replace guard from the same positions... this just fundamental posture/structure and basic movement. You can't get your blue belt until you have it down.... then there's all the sweeps, throws, locks, chokes.
You can study a different lock, choke, sweep or throw everyday and be busy for months.
Boxing: Jab, hook, cross, uppercut, duck, bob weave..... there you go. Of course there's levels to be trained to take each higher. But the same is for each individual lock. There's arm bars then there's flying arm bars.
Of course I know I'm leaving out all the high-level Kung Fu strikes. But to be blunt: where are they? There's been documentation of pro brawling now for nearly two centuries...... the only known kung fu fighters are movie starts. Chackie Chan, Bruce Lee and Jet Li. That's like awarding Arnold Swartzenager a Medal of Honor for being a war hero. It's make believe. Chop suey.
凸 囧 凸
If number of techniques was the measure. . .
Then something like The Chun would be owning the sh1t out of Professional Rastling,
er, I mean the UFC.
There is a difference between types of technique and actual technique.
Boxing is far more than just types of punches and manueavors.
Speed, timing, distance, ringmanship. Takes years to develop.
Even someone as preternaturally gifted as Ali or Tyson requires years of dedicated training.
Muay Thai has a plethora of obscure techniques, and just like with BJJ, most practitioners stick with a few highly developed high percentage ones.
We don't need to keep revisiting the LARPers, .
Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown
Itinerant practitioner
"The Chun" lol.. really?
that craptastic!
Kung Fu is good for you.
NIII
if they can "own", then why dont they??? more money in mma if your good than there is in just having a school... besides, you can do both and its good advertizing...
White Rabbit
Well... I don't deny that grappling is VERY technical, but anyone who thinks it's MORE technical and more difficult than "striking" has never been exposed to a high level of striking skill (remember that "striking" arts include the skill of evading strikes. It's easy enough to hit someone, but not so easy to skillfully prevent an opponent from striking you).
Think I'm wrong? How many of you could pull off the kinds of things in this clip? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfUFYtXNN0A
Time
Slips through fingers
Like this world of dust
NIII
nobody said its more difficult... and its a crucial aspect of the game, for sure... as is wrestling...
all im saying is it wears me down faster... and everyone else i have EVER met in my life...
the ass assassin
ray pina has more honor than black taoist
he is real warior
Last edited by bawang; 03-09-2011 at 10:08 PM.
Honorary African American
grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
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攻裏有防 , 防裏有攻
Grappling is more tiring.
In Muay Thai I don't look forward to hard, full-on clinching sessions. My neck always feel like it's gonna snap in half the next day.
It is bias to think that the art of war is just for killing people. It is not to kill people, it is to kill evil. It is a strategem to give life to many people by killing the evil of one person.
- Yagyū Munenori
NIII
for sure... that resistance always pushing back or pulling away etc etc... wrestlers get retard strength from pushing bodies so much... i can go all out striking for way longer than i can grappling, standing or on the ground... especially when im really being challenged...
not that getting punched in the fact doesnt take some wind out of your sails... lol
攻裏有防 , 防裏有攻
I never said I think striking is any less DANGEROUS. I think it's more dangerous. And getting hit an hurt A LOT.
I am simply saying that grappling training is more EXHAUSTING.
But I come from a striking background. I know some wrestlers who said boxing and kickboxing seem more tiring.
May be a perspective thing.
It is bias to think that the art of war is just for killing people. It is not to kill people, it is to kill evil. It is a strategem to give life to many people by killing the evil of one person.
- Yagyū Munenori
NIII
ive never heard anyone say striking wore them out more...i dunno, i come from a background of both, and find grappling more exhausting... by a huge margin... theres just more resistance for the most part... its not coz of some special element or anything... its just with striking you dont get the same amount of resistance... so, of course, it goes withou saying that the more resistance you get in striking practice, the more it'll wear you down... and i totally hear you about the clinch thing...
Registered User
Where did I say striking wasn’t technical, its just that grappling is more technical, in striking you have what 4 or 5 punches to learn, 2 or 3 kicks, some knees and elbows, then you have to learn distance timing and defence and nothing new really ever comes up technique wise
Of course using the above in an actual fight is hard and technical and something you have to work on that’s for sure
Grappling wise the technical arena is huge, just on the ground and just on your back you have to learn how to use the guard in its various guises : full, open, closed, spider, butterfly half, quarter, upside down etc you have to learn how to escape mount in all its variations: low high fat boy, grapevine etc. And then there’s side control: conventional, sit through, reverse sit through, modified scarf, and normal scarf. Then there are other positions such as knee on belly. That’s not including learning both submissions and submission defence which is a huge area in its self. Add to this new position and submission come along, quarter guard, 50/50 guard DARC choke, gater roll, rubber guard, etc and you can see how technical grappling is. Its simply a wider area of skills than striking
Your average hobbyist will have better conditioning than your average TCMA guy, simply because grappling and wrestling is a fully body workout the likes of which forms and pad work cant touch, I cant remember the last time I saw guys throwing up in a TCMA class, I can remember the last time I saw this in an MMA class
And my point was not that they are better conditioned (which I believe they are) but that their conditioning comes from mainly their class workout and not extra S and C work
As for why striking looks bad in MMA its is partly that they don’t specialize I’ll admit that frely, but also due to other factors mainly rules and equipment: Go put 4oz gloves on a pair of boxers, tell them that if one of them falls down the other can keep hitting him on the ground, tell them that of they clinch in order to clear their heads the other fighter can knee elbow and throw them, that when they start throwing combinations the other fighter can take them down and beta on them…then tell them that there is no 3 knockdown rule once you cant defend yourself the fights over and then see how good they look………..
Registered User
wenshu 03-09-2011 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn7 (Post 1082304)
sure, lots of mma players suk at striking... and lots suck at wrestling... and lots sucj at ground fighting... you can hardly say nobody in mma can strike tho... thats rediculous...
i do try... i give 110% on both ends... and nothing wears you down like wrestling... pushing weight that is pushing back will always be a harder workout... not much to it... its pretty simple... i get a good workout in bak mei, but nothing drains me like wrestling does... i practice all ranges, so im just going on experience... and everyone else around me that also does both seem to agree...
although i do get alot of resistance from guys that only do standup styles... they will never concede that point... its an ego thing i guess...
im guessing you dont wrestle seriously, coz if you did you would be agreeing with me...
anybody here put as much time into wrestling as anything else??? any of yall think im wrong? its hard for me to believe that we are different here than everywhere else... if its a harder workout for me and everyone else i know, then its a harder workout for you too...
why do you think guys get so tired in the clinch... and the only reason anyone would shoot in coz they were tired would be because they are on auto pilot and their base is wrestling and it far exceeds their other skills... they do it when they get hurt too.... grab a leg... but that proves nothing aside from the fact that people go to what they know best when they are hurt...
Obviously I was generalizing, there are very good strikers in MMA. It just isn't the norm.
What is the harder workout wasn't the question.
For the record I consider clinching part of striking.
You say knife I say sword. . .
Depends where you are from, in Europe good striking is the normal and bad wrestling is also the norm, in the usa it’s the other way around, but the main reason is that wrestling not striking rules in MMA at the moment, he who can control distance and where the fight happens wins normally, hence why most of the UFC champs are very good grapplers/wrestlers. Honestly you can get away with just average striking in the main orgs these days, you cant get away with bad wrestling, as the likes of Hardy, Daley etc have found to their cost
Registered User
No actually I have studied striking with the same coaches as Paul Daley and Dan Hardy, never said it wasn’t technical or hard, or that it was easier than grappling but the shear scope of grappling tech’s makes it more technical to learn, you can get away with the basics in striking as long as you work hard on them, in grappling you have to learn it all because you will get caught in it at some stage
In striking if I learn the 5 or so major punches and defences I then need to work on my timing distancing etc, with grappling I cant just learn closed guard a few subs and the roll and spar, I have to train open, butterfly, half 50/50, rubber etc and the subs that can come from their because I will get caught in those positions at some stage
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