Tibetan White Crane

[TenTigers]

Si Ji Hao branched into three-Lama P'ai, Hop-Ga, and Bak Hok P'ai. Variations exist within the styles,and many share the same sets.
It would be very cool to see a side by side comparison. There is a youtube vid floating about with Lama P'ai Sifu Michael Parella exchanging information with Hop-Ga Sifu David Rogers.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I've seen some TWC that is "tyical" long range stuff ( kicks with both arms out for balance, lots of "CLF" type long looping strikes, etc) BUT have also seen LR/LP stuff that was as inclose as SPM.

[TenTigers]

I've seen some TWC that is "tyical" long range stuff ( kicks with both arms out for balance, lots of "CLF" type long looping strikes, etc) BUT have also seen LR/LP stuff that was as inclose as SPM.

People from Mark Foon's school learned a TWC form prior to learning SPM. My SPM teacher showed me bits n bobs from it, and from what I can see, it is using many of the same body angles when striking, although much larger. Mark Foon was a Master in TWC and I believe Hung Kuen as well prior to studying with Lam Sang. The foundation in a larger frame boxing style develops the "engines" for a more compact system.

[sanjuro_ronin]

People from Mark Foon's school learned a TWC form prior to learning SPM. My SPM teacher showed me bits n bobs from it, and from what I can see, it is using many of the same body angles when striking, although much larger. Mark Foon was a Master in TWC and I believe Hung Kuen as well prior to studying with Lam Sang. The foundation in a larger frame boxing style develops the "engines" for a more compact system.

Very much so, going from "big to small" really develops the engine much better than diving it at "small".
I am sure some can make it work from the start of course.
The commonality of many southern systems is that, start big and end small.
I recall one person mentioning that he believed that the southern short hand systems are all just "expressions" of an original long hand one.

[jdhowland]

Ten_Tigers:

The foundation in a larger frame boxing style develops the "engines" for a more compact system.

Very much so, going from "big to small" really develops the engine much better than diving it at "small".
I am sure some can make it work from the start of course.
The commonality of many southern systems is that, start big and end small.

Good observations. I've often wondered whether the descriptions of TWC in popular media as a truly long range style were fostered by the featured instructors who didn't want to give too much away. Many of our techniques are designed for body-to-body contact, even those performed at full extension.

I've had some training in Chu Ga and SPM and find great similarities. Even the fung ngan cheui/phoenix eye strikes are common in TWC and Hop Ga.

Long range TWC methods "open the chest" to allow waist rotation and side power for full momentum. The short hand techniques are done differently, with a "closed chest, open back" and the common flurries of three to five short hand techniques are done with power from trunk muscles, but with little waist rotation. My teacher even described a waist folding and extending technique in our Kau Da Kyun as "eating and spitting."

[jdhowland]

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1174802]Very much so, going from "big to small" really develops the engine much better than diving it at "small".
I am sure some can make it work from the start of course.
The commonality of many southern systems is that, start big and end small.QUOTE]

I agree. It's hard to imagine doing it the other way. Imagine the difficulties spending years on, say, a short Hakka system and then trying to loosen up for longfist. TWC is well organized as a teaching method and first develops gross motor skills which can be used under pressure.

I recall one person mentioning that he believed that the southern short hand systems are all just "expressions" of an original long hand one.

Interesting. Wondered about that myself. It would explain why systems of supposedly northern origin do not resemble what remains in the homeland.

[htowndragon]

90% of the people who can hit for sh1t in a short ranged system trained a power base in a long range system.

[jdhowland]

I've seen some TWC that is "tyical" long range stuff ( kicks with both arms out for balance, lots of "CLF" type long looping strikes, etc) BUT have also seen LR/LP stuff that was as inclose as SPM.

(Bold type added by me)

Thought this might be worth a comment.

The oft-noted arms out while kicking seen in TWC is a training method and does not reflect the fighting technique. I would say that it's not even for balance (although one of my teachers said exactly that). Our kicking drills are often done with the arms outstretched to the sides for the duration of the drills and often with weights, though Master Fong preferred using grip exercisers to train a tight fist. Shoulder strength is important in this system due to the emphasis on keeping the hands up and away from the body during a fight.

Along with endurance training the method also adds inertia to the upper body so it doesn't move at the same time as the waist and legs. It becomes an isolation exercise that creates awareness of the lower trunk--the "golden girdle" or central power source.

[bawang]

i respect hap kuen, but its rediculous to call it a tibetan martial art. also, please cut it with the stereotypical "rebel hero" bs.

[Gru Bianca]

i respect hap kuen, but its rediculous to call it a tibetan martial art. also, please cut it with the stereotypical "rebel hero" bs.

Ridiculous why? Mind to elaborate in more details?

[bawang]

because it is not a tibetan martial art.

[Gru Bianca]

because it is not a tibetan martial art.

yeah, thanks a lot I got it already you were of that opinion, I would be interested though to know if you have a specific reason to say so (.i.e. you have some sort of proof or you have seen some document or what?)

[taai gihk yahn]

i respect hap kuen, but its rediculous to call it a tibetan martial art. also, please cut it with the stereotypical "rebel hero" bs.

what's wrong with rebel heroes?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Si Ji Hao branched into three-Lama P'ai, Hop-Ga, and Bak Hok P'ai. Variations exist within the styles,and many share the same sets.
It would be very cool to see a side by side comparison. There is a youtube vid floating about with Lama P'ai Sifu Michael Parella exchanging information with Hop-Ga Sifu David Rogers.

Mike's stuff on youtube is great.
Big loss when he stopped posting here...